19 replies to this topic

[Zaphod222]

Br Cornelius, on 04 February 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

Not quite - the Israelis do have legitimate objections to been attacked indiscriminately by random rocket attacks.
Its just that at the moment those pale compared to the systematic genocide and displacement which the Israelis have perpetrated since the foundation of the state.

Br Cornelius

Get real. 15% of the population of Israel is muslim Arab, they have full citizen rights and enjoy equal protection under the law. Can you say the same about the Jewish population in any of the Arab countries surrounding Israel? (Syria under Assad, OK.... but that chapter is coming to an end).

The West Bank is a unsolvable problem. Ideally, it should be handed back to Jordan, but unsurprisingly Jordan does not want the trouble.

But "genocide"??? Go get a dictionary, learnn some facts, and stop spouting this hysteric nonsense, largely based on islamist propaganda talking points.

[and then]

ExpandMyMind, on 08 February 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

It's a strange one, Br. Israelis used to have a lot more sympathy for the Palestinians and it was almost exclusively the government that supported the Occupation. This is understandable when we consider the left mindset of Jews due to their own oppression for God-knows how long. But since the 90s there has been an entire generation of Israelis who have grown up during the age of cafe and bus suicide bombings. They, too, are now able to easily hate the other side, blinded by hate that makes them unable to see the whole picture, which has played right into the governments' hands and is what has led to the rise of the right in Israeli politics and mindset.

It has been a serious error by Hamas to attack civilians. While they have now been seen by Palestinians to be the only ones actually fighting for the cause, and this has led to their power, it has also pretty much destroyed any hope for peace for a generation. The governments of Israel now have what is wrongly perceived amongst many in Israel to be the moral high ground and they can continue to stall the joke that is the peace process with far less internal resistance. This is my opinion, of course.

I think Hamas is beginning to finally realize this error.  They are reaching out to Fatah and the PA to present a united front for these negotiations that the EU will push in March.  Something could actually come of this if they remain generally peaceful in their approach.  I guess they finally realized that armed conflict is useless so now they are trying another tack.

[Br Cornelius]

Zaphod222, on 08 February 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

Get real. 15% of the population of Israel is muslim Arab, they have full citizen rights and enjoy equal protection under the law. Can you say the same about the Jewish population in any of the Arab countries surrounding Israel? (Syria under Assad, OK.... but that chapter is coming to an end).

The West Bank is a unsolvable problem. Ideally, it should be handed back to Jordan, but unsurprisingly Jordan does not want the trouble.

But "genocide"??? Go get a dictionary, learnn some facts, and stop spouting this hysteric nonsense, largely based on islamist propaganda talking points.

Systematically targeting a racially specific civilian population with deadly force over decades is genocide. Simple.
Propaganda against a specific racial group prepares the population to be immune to the consequences of systematic genocide.

The west bank is insoluble since the Israeli occupying force is systematically displacing its native population and replacing it with settler communities to achieve the dream of a greater Israel.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 09 February 2013 - 03:34 PM.

[Br Cornelius]

and then, on 08 February 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

I think Hamas is beginning to finally realize this error.  They are reaching out to Fatah and the PA to present a united front for these negotiations that the EU will push in March.  Something could actually come of this if they remain generally peaceful in their approach.  I guess they finally realized that armed conflict is useless so now they are trying another tack.

Dropping the armed conflict only becomes a viable option when backed by a powerful external force. Been the weaker party with no significant backers leaves little but armed resistance. Lets hope that the EU is sincere and acts as a  significant counterbalance to the malign influence of the biased USA who has always favoured Israel in all previous negotiations.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 09 February 2013 - 03:38 PM.

[and then]

Br Cornelius, on 09 February 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Dropping the armed conflict only becomes a viable option when backed by a powerful external force. Been the weaker party with no significant backers leaves little but armed resistance. Lets hope that the EU is sincere and acts as a  significant counterbalance to the malign influence of the biased USA who has always favoured Israel in all previous negotiations.

Br Cornelius

Then I sincerely hope that the EU "powerful external force" does act as such a counter balance.  I have every confidence that Hamas, the PA and Fatah will return quite quickly (unseemly so) to their path of "resistance" even after gaining concessions and more land.  And at that point the Israelis will have a choice to make about their concept of what they want Israel to be.  Do they want to attempt to live in a majority Muslim nation or will they stand and fight for a Jewish homeland.  They will be left with no other choice at some point because the world will be relentless in achieving the goal that the Palestinians seek.