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Looking for CONVINCING evidence of ghosts

ghost evidence paranormal supernatural spirits

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#46    tendo

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:32 AM

View PostHuntressoftheNorth, on 29 January 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

Hello everyone. None of you know me as I just discovered this site today. Fell in love with it. Tenbo, while I can't offer you valid evidence outside my own experiances, I can give you a theory your girlfriend may accept more readily. I am 17 and have lived in the middle east and different parts of asia for about five years.
A lot of the time I spent there with my family was a cultural study. Something to be said about areas like where we weree (Zarqa Jordan if you want to be exact), is that the people there are very attached to their ways of life. Their hoomes might havve modern conveniances, but the traditions their ancestors have given them are still the same as they were hundreds of years ago. You might thi k Im straying off topic, Im not. In a summarized version of whats in my head, have you ever heard the story of how satan became Satan? In a rounded version of what I know, before god created mankind, he had created angels and a race called Jinn. Jinn had the same free will humans have. Which means the inclination towards good or evil. These beings exist on earth, though on a different "plain" I guess you would call it. They can see us, and while we can't see them it is possible to interact with them. You probably think Im full of it, but its true in my humble opinion. A common misconception is that Jinns are demons, but they aren't. The easiest and most common way to explain it is "smokeless fire formed into thinking living beings". Oddly enough, the accounts and stories for lack of better words even explain things like "haunted" houses. Because by divine rule Jinns are not allowed to live where people do. Though less religious ones (or more malicious) tend to ignore this. So the law abiding ones tend to take up residence in unoccupied houses or even old caves and forests. Another thing is that they are not "spirits" or ghosts, but living breathing beings that work and love andhave children and die like people do. Again you probably think I am full of it, but maybee your GF would be more open to the idead of a paralel yet intertwineing world rather than a spirit world. I hope this helps and if you or anyone else has a question Ill be happy to answer them as well as i can. Also please forgive any misspellings/spacings. Im typing this on my phone.

I am quite familiar with that tale, as I am a christian. However, she is agnostic ranging on atheistic, so she would be less accepting of this. She Might buy into the parallel plane thing, but barely, and because it cannot be scientifically proven or evidenced to exist, she will not give it any more than credit than a folk tale. I think that this explains it quite well, and do think that in most cases it isn't what we consider a 'spirit' but rather some other entity, whether that be angelic, demonic, or otherwise. Thanks for the input!


#47    AsteroidX

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:02 AM

Alot of us UM folk (i love speaking for other people, my bad) view many of these subjects as "folk tales". But we are detectives trying to prove them or to debunk them. I think of it as interactive Folklore.


#48    Frank Merton

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:58 AM

View PostHuntressoftheNorth, on 29 January 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

In a rounded version of what I know, before god created mankind, he had created angels and a race called Jinn. Jinn had the same free will humans have. Which means the inclination towards good or evil. These beings exist on earth, though on a different "plain" I guess you would call it. They can see us, and while we can't see them it is possible to interact with them. You probably think Im full of it, but its true in my humble opinion. A common misconception is that Jinns are demons, but they aren't. The easiest and most common way to explain it is "smokeless fire formed into thinking living beings". Oddly enough, the accounts and stories for lack of better words even explain things like "haunted" houses. Because by divine rule Jinns are not allowed to live where people do. Though less religious ones (or more malicious) tend to ignore this. So the law abiding ones tend to take up residence in unoccupied houses or even old caves and forests. Another thing is that they are not "spirits" or ghosts, but living breathing beings that work and love andhave children and die like people do. Again you probably think I am full of it, but maybee your GF would be more open to the idead of a paralel yet intertwineing world rather than a spirit world. I hope this helps and if you or anyone else has a question Ill be happy to answer them as well as i can.
Thanks for that; I learned a lot.

It seems most if not all cultures have something of this sort.  If a Vietnamese encounters a Jinn, he will interpret it as a ghost.  I think most Westerners will too.  Whether they are as you describe or the spirits of the dead or merely our imaginations working too hard is a matter of interpretation.  Maybe the various encounters represent cases of all three.


#49    Frank Merton

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:06 AM

View PostAsteroidX, on 30 January 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

Alot of us UM folk (i love speaking for other people, my bad) view many of these subjects as "folk tales". But we are detectives trying to prove them or to debunk them. I think of it as interactive Folklore.
I don't see how phenomena of this sort are scientifically demonstrable, or not.  About all the scholar can do (in such a situation I don't think "scientist" works) is interview people who report experiences.  This has been done over and over and over and not much has come of it.

One observation I would make is that there seem to be systematic cultural differences in the reported phenomena.  Ghosts in the west wear sheets or are translucent people.  Ghosts in Vietnam are entirely evil and are out to get you and put on a horrific aspect.  Jinn are not really even ghosts but another sort of people living in a different plane.  It appears to be a case of what we expect is what we see, and this of course makes it all seem like it may be psychological rather than real.

Still, living in Vietnam and talking to many that I would trust explicitly and are totally rational, if not even materialist Communists, who have had such experiences, one has to wonder.  For one thing, the experiences are more of the Western sort than the horrific stuff the folklore contains, although sometimes otherwise.


#50    tendo

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:23 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 30 January 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

I don't see how phenomena of this sort are scientifically demonstrable, or not.  About all the scholar can do (in such a situation I don't think "scientist" works) is interview people who report experiences.  This has been done over and over and over and not much has come of it.

One observation I would make is that there seem to be systematic cultural differences in the reported phenomena.  Ghosts in the west wear sheets or are translucent people.  Ghosts in Vietnam are entirely evil and are out to get you and put on a horrific aspect.  Jinn are not really even ghosts but another sort of people living in a different plane.  It appears to be a case of what we expect is what we see, and this of course makes it all seem like it may be psychological rather than real.

Still, living in Vietnam and talking to many that I would trust explicitly and are totally rational, if not even materialist Communists, who have had such experiences, one has to wonder.  For one thing, the experiences are more of the Western sort than the horrific stuff the folklore contains, although sometimes otherwise.
That's absolutely true. IIRC, there are numerous experiments where they have people stay overnight in a supposedly haunted place, telling them tales of what others have seen, and the guests come back with tales very similar to what they were told, and then the truth is revealed that this place isn't haunted and nobody has reported anything. The mind is so powerful it is ridiculous.


#51    HuntressoftheNorth

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:57 PM

I agree with Apparition that a lot of beliefs are culturally rooted. If I didnt know what. I think is true i would assume things too. I,m glad you found my post interesting. And I salute yourlogical thinking. As for tendo, im glad I didnt sound like I was making stuff up.Since I moved back to America kids my age and older aren,t really open minded to what my family and i have learned overseas. I really didn't know that was a christian thing too. That might help youur case though. If you can show your girlfriend consistent trditions from different religions and countries have indentical or mostly similar stories that might help open her mind a little. I know you said shes agnostic, but i think it appeals to the rational mind too. These were cultares that had little to no contact with each other. But they have similar stories and legends. I would think that at least leans towards the conclusion that there is something. Whether spiritual demonic, or alternate plane. If all else fails, I promise that after I die i will come back and tell your gf you told her so. You know, if it is possible. Peace out guys.






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