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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#1096    Abramelin

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:42 PM

View Postlilthor, on 17 September 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

Posted Image

Who were the Taexali and is their tribal name related to the island in North Holland?

I think I better repost that list I talked about.....


#1097    Abramelin

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:48 PM

Menapii: a Germanic tribe living to the south west of the Frisii; spoke a language closely related to Frisian as we can see by the Lord's Prayer in the Menapian language in Overwijn's book about the OLB; probably moved to Ireland;

Chauci: a Germanic tribe to the east of the Frisians; were very civilized according to Tacitus and were being decribed almost like the OLB describes the Fryans; but they were also sea raiders and often hooked up with the Frisians; linguistic indications they went raiding and settling as far as Iberia ("Kaukaioi"); probably moved to Ireland too and were there the neighbours of the Menapii;

Parisi: a Celtic/Germanic (?) tribe living near the Seine; some say their name means Frisii; probably moved to Yorkshire, England. The Parisi in England had a different culture from the surrounding tribes (and in England their name is also explained as "of the wetlands, low pastures", "herdsmen", "commanders");

Belgae: a group of Celtic/Germanic (?) tribes living in present day Belgium and Northern France; probably they were the Fir Bolg of the Irish legends; the Parisi were probably one of them (??);

Taexali: a group of very probably Frisian settlers (lived near a bay in Scotland that was once called Frisian Bay); did they come from Texel (old name Texla) after the flood in 360 or 350 BC, a flood mentioned by the Frisian historiographer Schotanus? Same could be true for the aforementioned tribes. Some of their hillforts were called "Laws" (think OLB citadel on Texland; the etymology of Texla is based on a Germanic word for direction, "to the right". But 'right' has also another meaning aside from a direction...);

Firaesi: a tribe living in Scandia which was an island according to Ptolemy but was actually the southern part of Sweden:

The Firaesi (Latinization) or Phiraisoi (original Greek) are a people listed in Ptolemy’s Geography (2.10).

Ptolemy’s view of the region is not very precise, but he places them on the east side of what he believed to be an island, Scandia. The presence of the Goutai, or Goths, in the center, identifies Scandia fairly certainly as the southern portion of the Scandinavian peninsula. As to whether the east of it was the east coast of Sweden or the coast of Finland opposite, the latter is perhaps too remote for detailed knowledge by Ptolemy or his sources.

There is in fact a possible Germanic derivation of Phiraisoi. They are in the same region as the Favonae, who may have been residents of Småland. Old Norse and Old Icelandic firar, Old English firas, are fairly close to Firaesi and mean “men, human beings” or “Volk” in German. As it happens, Uppland was traditionally divived in Folkland, four provinces, which lost their jurisdictional importance in 1296.

Koebler’s Old Norse Etymological Database in the Indo-European Etymological Database online at Leiden University gives a Proto-Indo-European root of *perkwus, becoming Germanic *ferhwioz by Grimm's Law. The root meaning is “oak”, but the oak was regarded as a symbol of hardness, toughness and strength (see also Harudes).

With regard to people it means “life force” or especially “power”, in the sense of the collective power of the folk. It would be a descriptive epithet of the *teuta-, “tribe, people”. This connotation is probably not devoid of a military sense, as the root went into Hittite, a very early branch of Indo-European, as “army”. Uppland then would have been a densely populated and at the time fairly conservative remnant of Indo-European culture. If the Indo-European penetration of Europe can be regarded as a very slow invasion, its Schwerpunkt, or “heavy point”, came to rest in Uppland.

The Firaesi are not mentioned elsewhere in history, perhaps because of language changes and the preference of folk for firar. More information is undoubtedly to be gleaned from archaeology.


Firaesi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Posted Image Firaesi


According to accepted history, the Frisians originally came from the area of Denmark and Southern Sweden (around 1700 BC they went on the move). Does their name mean "men, folk, human beings, the people"? Also think about the Irish "Fir" which means the same...

Old Prussians: a Baltic tribe, aka "Aesti" according to Tactitus. Lived in an area near the "Friesisches Haff", Poland; spoke a language called "Pruteni" which was, again according to Tacitus, the same language as spoken in Brittain by the "Pretani". Now Google "Pruteni", and see where you end up, lol. Yes, Rutheni, Russ..

I once fabricated an original name for the Proto Frisians, "Phruisii", and suggested that from that name the others developed: Frisii, Fireasi, Prusi, Parisi (and there are those who'd like to add: Farsi or Parsi..).

Posted Image

Edited by Abramelin, 17 September 2012 - 04:52 PM.


#1098    Abramelin

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:55 PM

Btw, the list is based on what I have posted in this thread, part -1- and -2- .


#1099    Abramelin

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:04 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 17 September 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Otharus (and welcome back, btw!), you will remember what I posted in the OLB thread on the Historum site, about the Irish knowing about the ancient Frisians ("Fresen"), sometimes equalling them with the Fomorians (pirates)?



OK, here are those posts (too complicated to copy and paste because of the different way to embed links on that site) :

http://www.historum....tml#post1139866

http://www.historum....tml#post1137698



D'aithneoinn do ghlór as seo go Tír-fo-Thoinn
Is sheasfainn sa tsneachta is tú ag gabháil fhoinn go binn
Éist, a stór, tá ceol ar an ngaoth
Is casfar le chéile sinn roimh dhul faoi don ghrian.


I’d know your voice from here to the land beneath the waves, *
and would stand in the snow while you sang a tune sweetly.
Listen, o darling, there’s music on the wind,
And we will meet before the going down of the sun.

[* poetic name for the Netherlands]

http://www.historum....tml#post1140718


.

Edited by Abramelin, 17 September 2012 - 05:12 PM.


#1100    lilthor

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:24 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 17 September 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

Taexali: a group of very probably Frisian settlers (lived near a bay in Scotland that was once called Frisian Bay); did they come from Texel (old name Texla) after the flood in 360 or 350 BC, a flood mentioned by the Frisian historiographer Schotanus? Same could be true for the aforementioned tribes. Some of their hillforts were called "Laws" (think OLB citadel on Texland; the etymology of Texla is based on a Germanic word for direction, "to the right". But 'right' has also another meaning aside from a direction...);

There is today a place in Scotland called Freswick, which apparently does mean "Frisian Bay":
http://books.google....an Bay"&f=false

It's in the far north of Scotland though:
Posted Image

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freswick

Edited by lilthor, 17 September 2012 - 07:25 PM.


#1101    Abramelin

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:41 PM

View Postlilthor, on 17 September 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

There is today a place in Scotland called Freswick, which apparently does mean "Frisian Bay":
http://books.google....an Bay"&f=false

It's in the far north of Scotland though:
Posted Image

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freswick

Not at all wanting to piss you of in any way for any reason, Lilthor, but I have posted about that before.

I think having an iron memory about what I posted myself is a burden.

The Frisans did settle there.

The only question remaining is WHEN exactly.


#1102    lilthor

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:28 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 17 September 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

Not at all wanting to piss you of in any way for any reason, Lilthor, but I have posted about that before.

I think having an iron memory about what I posted myself is a burden.

The Frisans did settle there.

The only question remaining is WHEN exactly.

Lol...I'm certainly not surprised (nor pissed, of course).  It turns out there are "Frisian Bay" locations all over the North Sea and Baltic regions...which is likely not news around here, eh?

An iron memory is a fine thing; I've been told mine is like a wisp of smoke.  Or gets lost in wisps of smoke; I can't remember which.

:tu:


#1103    Abramelin

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 10:15 PM

OK.

* The Frisians in the 4th century BC suffered from some terrible flood.

* The Frisians were in contact with the Scots.

* They must have had more than enough of those almost annual floods, and decided to move to their friends, the Scots, living in highlands.

* Texel island (or the area before it became an island) was one of the first and oldest inhabited places in the Netherlands.

* It was high and dry, but apparently not high and dry enough.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 18 September 2012 - 10:21 PM.


#1104    Otharus

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:35 AM

Improvement of the existing translations ~ letter Liko Ovira-Linda, 803 CE.

original text
... THA POPPA KENINGGAR.
THISSA WÉTATH THAT WI HJARA GRATESTE FJANDA SEND.
THRVCHDA WI HJARA LJUDA TO SPRÉKE THVRA,
VR FRYDOM RJUCHT AND FORSTNE PLJCHT.

translation Ottema 1872
... de vreemde koningen;
deze weten dat wij hunne grootste vijanden zijn,
omdat wij hunne lieden toespreken durven
over vrijheid, recht en vorstenplicht.

translation Sandbach 1876
... foreign kings,
who know that we are their greatest enemies,
because we dare to speak to their people
of liberty, rights, and the duties of princes.

translation Wirth 1933
... den fremden Königen.
Diese wissen, daß wir ihre größten Feinde sind,
weil wir zu ihren Leuten zu sprechen wagen
von Freiheit, Recht und Fürstenpflicht.

translation Jensma 2006
... de moffenkoningen.
Dezen weten dat wij hun grotste vijanden zijn,
doordat wij hun volk durven toespreken
over vrijheid, recht en vorstenplicht.

"Haarlieden" or "haarlui" (slang: "hullie") is oldschool third person plural: them (modern Dutch "hen" or "ze").
See Geïntegreerde TaalBank.

So, in my opinion, it should be:

Dutch: "... doordat wij tot hen spreken durven..."
English: "because we dare speak to them..."
German: "... weil wir zu ihnen sprechen wagen"

... which is something significantly different than the known interpretations.

Over de Linden's forefather Liko - who had been at their court - had dared to criticize the foreign suppressors directly, not through 'their people'.

Edited by Otharus, 23 September 2012 - 08:37 AM.


#1105    Otharus

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 08:25 AM

Just found an interesting source:

The Science of the Swastika by Bernard Mees (2008; Central European University Press)

See chapter 6 on Herman Wirth, who translated most of the OLB into German and published it with comments in 1933.

For those who don't know: The OLB is also known in German as "Himmler's Bible".

(I have not read it myself yet.)


#1106    Knul

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:40 PM

View PostOtharus, on 23 September 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

Improvement of the existing translations ~ letter Liko Ovira-Linda, 803 CE.

original text
... THA POPPA KENINGGAR.
THISSA WÉTATH THAT WI HJARA GRATESTE FJANDA SEND.
THRVCHDA WI HJARA LJUDA TO SPRÉKE THVRA,
VR FRYDOM RJUCHT AND FORSTNE PLJCHT.

translation Ottema 1872
... de vreemde koningen;
deze weten dat wij hunne grootste vijanden zijn,
omdat wij hunne lieden toespreken durven
over vrijheid, recht en vorstenplicht.

translation Sandbach 1876
... foreign kings,
who know that we are their greatest enemies,
because we dare to speak to their people
of liberty, rights, and the duties of princes.

translation Wirth 1933
... den fremden Königen.
Diese wissen, daß wir ihre größten Feinde sind,
weil wir zu ihren Leuten zu sprechen wagen
von Freiheit, Recht und Fürstenpflicht.

translation Jensma 2006
... de moffenkoningen.
Dezen weten dat wij hun grotste vijanden zijn,
doordat wij hun volk durven toespreken
over vrijheid, recht en vorstenplicht.

"Haarlieden" or "haarlui" (slang: "hullie") is oldschool third person plural: them (modern Dutch "hen" or "ze").
See Geïntegreerde TaalBank.

So, in my opinion, it should be:

Dutch: "... doordat wij tot hen spreken durven..."
English: "because we dare speak to them..."
German: "... weil wir zu ihnen sprechen wagen"

... which is something significantly different than the known interpretations.

Over de Linden's forefather Liko - who had been at their court - had dared to criticize the foreign suppressors directly, not through 'their people'.

The best literal translation into Dutch would be "hunlieden''. s. http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...=WNT&id=M026964 .

poppa could best be tranlated with 'Rooms, Roomse).


#1107    Otharus

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:59 PM

View PostKnul, on 25 September 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

poppa could best be tranlated with 'Rooms, Roomse).

See post #10077 of the closed thread: http://www.unexplain...184645&st=10065

Fragment of letter from Cornelis Over de Linden to Dr. Ottema, dated 8-11-1871 (translated):

"You would prefer to translate 'poppenkoningen' into 'papenkings' ['paap' is an invection for catholics]. Here in Westfriesland strangers are called 'pop', terms like 'poppe-horses' and '-pigs' are known too.

Thus you would not risk a mistake if you would use 'foreign kings' for 'poppa koningen'."



#1108    Otharus

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:05 PM

View PostKnul, on 25 September 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

The best literal translation into Dutch would be "hunlieden''.

That is a very oldfashioned term.
Most people would understand that as "hun _ lieden" (their people), while it means (in modern Dutch) "hen" or "ze" (them).


#1109    Abramelin

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:01 AM

Or "zullie" as our ex-prime minister Van Agt would say, lol.


#1110    Otharus

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 06:51 AM

yes, from zijlui or zijlieden (them people)

interestingly, "jullie" (gijlui, gijlieden; plural "you" or "you people") has become 'common civilised dutch', while the other forms are fading away

Edited by Otharus, 26 September 2012 - 06:58 AM.





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