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Plants communicate using clicking sounds


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#46    Abramelin

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:10 PM

View PostWoIverine, on 11 February 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

I don't get the cabbage thing. So they can emit some gas as a warning to other cabbages that are in the garden or whatever. A warning only! It's not like the cabbage can grab a pitchfork and go all stabbity stab or anything. The warning gas has no real purpose.

Maybe not, could be an equivalent of a scream in pain, but for the 'receiving' cabbage it has:  It can create chemicals in its leaves or send certain chemicals to its leaves or wherever to prevent being eaten.

That's why it's best to cook certain plants because that will break down these chemicals.


#47    Abramelin

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 11:51 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 January 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

“Mother trees” use fungal systems to feed the forest
By Cori Howard

Suzanne Simard always had a fetish for soil. As a kid growing up in the British Columbia Interior, she loved digging for worms. Little did she know that she would spend most of her career exploring dirt. Now a forest ecologist at the University of British Columbia, Simard helped make the major finding, first published in the journal Nature, that trees and plants communicate. She discovered an underground web of fungi that connects trees and plants together and shuttles resources, allowing trees to help one another survive and thrive.

Simard noticed brilliant white and yellow fungal threads in the forest floor. Many of these fungi were mycorrhizal, living in tree roots. Through microscopic examination and experimentation, she realized the fungi were transporting carbon, water and nutrients between trees, depending on which needed it most. “The big trees were subsidizing the young ones through the fungal networks,” explains Simard. “Without this helping hand, most of the seedlings wouldn’t make it.”

Mycorrhizal networks exist in ecosystems around the world (and were featured in the movie Avatar), and Simard’s research has shown that without “Mother Trees” — the big trees that dominate forests and are connected to all other trees — efforts at regeneration often fail. Her latest results reveal that when a Mother Tree is cut down, the survival rate of new seedlings is very low. The implications for the forest industry and conservation groups are huge: conserve Mother Trees and preserve mycorrhizal networks, or we could lose our forests.

http://www.canadiang...gal_systems.asp


Underground signals carried through common mycelial networks warn neighbouring plants of aphid attack

Article first published online: 9 MAY 2013

Abstract

The roots of most land plants are colonised by mycorrhizal fungi that provide mineral nutrients in exchange for carbon. Here, we show that mycorrhizal mycelia can also act as a conduit for signalling between plants, acting as an early warning system for herbivore attack. Insect herbivory causes systemic changes in the production of plant volatiles, particularly methyl salicylate, making bean plants, Vicia faba, repellent to aphids but attractive to aphid enemies such as parasitoids. We demonstrate that these effects can also occur in aphid-free plants but only when they are connected to aphid-infested plants via a common mycorrhizal mycelial network. This underground messaging system allows neighbouring plants to invoke herbivore defences before attack. Our findings demonstrate that common mycorrhizal mycelial networks can determine the outcome of multitrophic interactions by communicating information on herbivore attack between plants, thereby influencing the behaviour of both herbivores and their natural enemies.

http://onlinelibrary...EE1EE212.d02t03


#48    Yes_Man

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 01:57 PM

Was it in the film Avatar where Grace says that the trees had something like a communication system linking each other?


#49    Abramelin

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 02:11 PM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 12 May 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

Was it in the film Avatar where Grace says that the trees had something like a communication system linking each other?

Yes, and if you click on the link in the post I quoted in my former post, and scroll down to the end of the article, you'll see they mention that movie.


#50    Yes_Man

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:22 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 12 May 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Yes, and if you click on the link in the post I quoted in my former post, and scroll down to the end of the article, you'll see they mention that movie.
Very interesting, fungi has a mystical background and still has now. If somehow scientists can find out what is being said or get some information, not now but in the future, do you think we could speed up Tree growth much quicker?


#51    redhen

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 05:51 PM

View PostArmchair Educated, on 12 December 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

i feel bad for the cabbages, they can warn each other but do nothing about the threat. i wonder what vegetarians think about this

Well that didn't take long, only the second comment, good job. Vegetables don't have a nervous system of any kind and thus cannot feel pain. Neither can bacteria or a rock.

It's amazing how desperate people are to defend their meat eating habit. I'm not making a personal attack, just an observation. No one is born a vegetarian. No one is born a meat eater. It's a matter of upbringing and habit, habits that can be changed.


#52    Abramelin

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:21 PM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 12 May 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

Very interesting, fungi has a mystical background and still has now. If somehow scientists can find out what is being said or get some information, not now but in the future, do you think we could speed up Tree growth much quicker?

Maybe we would never again chop down a tree...


#53    Abramelin

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:24 PM

View Postredhen, on 12 May 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

Well that didn't take long, only the second comment, good job. Vegetables don't have a nervous system of any kind and thus cannot feel pain. Neither can bacteria or a rock.

It's amazing how desperate people are to defend their meat eating habit. I'm not making a personal attack, just an observation. No one is born a vegetarian. No one is born a meat eater. It's a matter of upbringing and habit, habits that can be changed.

It's very obvious from the posts I made that plants can feel a threat.

Pain is nothing but a way animals are being made aware their life or health is in danger.

Plants just have another system.


#54    redhen

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:51 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 12 May 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

Pain is nothing but a way animals are being made aware their life or health is in danger.

Plants just have another system.

I think you are confusing awareness with pain.  There are different somatic senses, from wiki;

"The system reacts to diverse stimuli using different receptors: thermoreceptors, nociceptors, mechanoreceptors and chemoreceptors. "

Pain is sensed via nociceptors. Since plants don't have nociceptors, they don't feel pain. Yes, they can have mechano, thermo or chemo sensors, but they don't involve pain.


#55    lightly

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:34 AM

what fascinates me is  .. that plants may actually be  Aware.  ( i've always thought so,  but it's not a popular notion , among people )

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#56    Abramelin

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:28 AM

View Postredhen, on 12 May 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

I think you are confusing awareness with pain.  There are different somatic senses, from wiki;

"The system reacts to diverse stimuli using different receptors: thermoreceptors, nociceptors, mechanoreceptors and chemoreceptors. "

Pain is sensed via nociceptors. Since plants don't have nociceptors, they don't feel pain. Yes, they can have mechano, thermo or chemo sensors, but they don't involve pain.

Plants can sense that which is harmful for them. We are animals and sense stimuli like most other animals so we cannot have the slightest idea how a plant senses something harmful. Yes, we can only know what organs, cells or tissue they sense it with, not how they "experience" it. Pain is nothing but an alarm bell that forces us to take action because it "hurts".


#57    redhen

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:35 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 13 May 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

Pain is nothing but an alarm bell that forces us to take action because it "hurts".

Pain has been the topic of much philosophical debate, and almost all agree that there is a subjective component of pain. By definition, this subjective component cannot be attributed to things that lack the mental capacity to interpret it.

From Stanford philosophy encyclopedia;

"Activity induced in the nociceptor and nociceptive pathways by a noxious stimulus is not pain, which is always a psychological state, even though we may well appreciate that pain most often has a proximate physical cause."

p.s. the idea that plants communicate by sound, as indicated by the title of this thread, is impossible. Plants don't have an any auditory organs and thus cannot process sound. They can of course sense vibrations.


#58    Abramelin

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:27 PM

View Postredhen, on 13 May 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Pain has been the topic of much philosophical debate, and almost all agree that there is a subjective component of pain. By definition, this subjective component cannot be attributed to things that lack the mental capacity to interpret it.

From Stanford philosophy encyclopedia;

"Activity induced in the nociceptor and nociceptive pathways by a noxious stimulus is not pain, which is always a psychological state, even though we may well appreciate that pain most often has a proximate physical cause."

p.s. the idea that plants communicate by sound, as indicated by the title of this thread, is impossible. Plants don't have an any auditory organs and thus cannot process sound. They can of course sense vibrations.

You might want to read the rest of this thread before you say something is "impossible".

About pain, this is what I said:

Quote

Plants can sense that which is harmful for them. We are animals and sense stimuli like most other animals so we cannot have the slightest idea how a plant senses something harmful. Yes, we can only know what organs, cells or tissue they sense it with, not how they "experience" it. Pain is nothing but an alarm bell that forces us to take action because it "hurts".



#59    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:02 PM

http://www.scienceda...30507060855.htm

Plants 'Talk' to Plants to Help Them Grow

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#60    shrooma

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:00 AM

View Postredhen, on 12 May 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:


It's amazing how desperate people are to defend their meat eating habit.
.
and it's amazing how quick vegetarians are at jumping to the moral high ground.

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