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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#3046    Abramelin

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 05:05 PM

View Postgestur, on 23 March 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

I remember that he was discussed here, but forgot the details.
Delahaye may have thought Dorestad was somewhere else, but I don't believe he would claim that it never existed.

No, he claimed it was located in Belgium.

But his etymology..... well, I don't agree with it.

Here is a Dutch Wiki page about him (and I hope you can read Dutch) :

http://nl.wikipedia....Albert_Delahaye

But like I told Otharus. long ago, he was someone to be reckoned with, He was no idiot.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 23 March 2013 - 05:06 PM.


#3047    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:44 PM

A Possible meaning of the words Nocta and Fructa from the OLB..........From a latin and old Irish versions of Genesis , in the Labor Gabala Erenn .

Latin...2:- Cui respondit mulier de (fruicta) lignonum , quae sunt in Paradiso vescemur, 3:- de ( fructo) vero ligni quod est in medio paradisi prae cepit nobis deus.


Old Irish...10:-ro frecair imorro adhamh ro raidh ad choaladhus do ghuth a bPairrthais , romghabh eaglaor bham (nocht ), ro foilgios me . 11:-ro raidhdia, cia ro inndios dhuit do bheith (nocht) acht me feinin ro chathis forad in chrainn, do ro tairmioscious iomut ?

English:- Howbeit Adam answered and said, i heard thy voice in Paradise , and fear laid hold of me , for i was naked , and hid me .11:- and God said " who told you you were naked, other than myself ? has though eaten of the tree which i forbade thee ?

could they both mean naked one in latin (friucta ) and the other in old Irish (Nocht) ???


#3048    Abramelin

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:13 AM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 23 March 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

A Possible meaning of the words Nocta and Fructa from the OLB..........From a latin and old Irish versions of Genesis , in the Labor Gabala Erenn .

Latin...2:- Cui respondit mulier de (fruicta) lignonum , quae sunt in Paradiso vescemur, 3:- de ( fructo) vero ligni quod est in medio paradisi prae cepit nobis deus.


Old Irish...10:-ro frecair imorro adhamh ro raidh ad choaladhus do ghuth a bPairrthais , romghabh eaglaor bham (nocht ), ro foilgios me . 11:-ro raidhdia, cia ro inndios dhuit do bheith (nocht) acht me feinin ro chathis forad in chrainn, do ro tairmioscious iomut ?

English:- Howbeit Adam answered and said, i heard thy voice in Paradise , and fear laid hold of me , for i was naked , and hid me .11:- and God said " who told you you were naked, other than myself ? has though eaten of the tree which i forbade thee ?

could they both mean naked one in latin (friucta ) and the other in old Irish (Nocht) ???

The OLB word for "naked" is....."nâked".


Êr thêre aerge tid kêm was vs lând thaet skênnéste in wr.alda. Svnne rês hager aend thêr was sjelden frost. Anda bâma aend trêjon waxton frügda ând nochta,

Before the bad time came our country was the most beautiful in the world. The sun rose higher, and there was seldom frost. On the trees and shrubs (?) grew fruits and nuts (Dutch: vruchten en noten)

But the two words are also used in a metaphorical sense in the OLB, and then they mean "vreugde en ge-neugten" or "joy and pleasures".

+++


EDIT:

Personally I think that those "nochta" growing on trees and shrubs should be "nota". No old Germanic word has a -CH- or - K- in it. Only in Latin we have "nux".

.

Edited by Abramelin, 24 March 2013 - 10:26 AM.


#3049    Apol

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:52 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 24 March 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

The OLB word for "naked" is....."nâked".


Êr thêre aerge tid kêm was vs lând thaet skênnéste in wr.alda. Svnne rês hager aend thêr was sjelden frost. Anda bâma aend trêjon waxton frügda ând nochta,

Before the bad time came our country was the most beautiful in the world. The sun rose higher, and there was seldom frost. On the trees and shrubs (?) grew fruits and nuts (Dutch: vruchten en noten)

But the two words are also used in a metaphorical sense in the OLB, and then they mean "vreugde en ge-neugten" or "joy and pleasures".

+++


EDIT:

Personally I think that those "nochta" growing on trees and shrubs should be "nota". No old Germanic word has a -CH- or - K- in it. Only in Latin we have "nux".

.

I'm consistently translating früchda änd nochta into 'pleasures and delights' - though I'm aware of its double meaning - 'fruits and nuts'.
I can't see any relation to the the biblical Genesis. What I see, though, is a parallel to the biblical expression 'milk and honey'.

Edited by Apol, 24 March 2013 - 12:57 PM.


#3050    Abramelin

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:06 PM

View PostApol, on 24 March 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

I'm consistently translating früchda änd nochta into 'pleasures and delights' - though I'm aware of its double meaning - 'fruits and nuts'.
I can't see any relation to the the biblical Genesis. What I see, though, is a parallel to the biblical expression 'milk and honey'.

I remembered that Knul once said that "vruchten en genoegens" ("fruits and delights") is a Biblical expression

http://www.unexplain...35#entry4197419

++

EDIT:

Well, it's not in the Bible itself (I think), but it appears to be a Dutch explanation of an episode in the Bible.

From the pdf Knul linked to:

3e. Met het verlies van dit leven werd Adam gedreigd
ingeval van ongehoorzaamheid, als het grootste verlies en
de vreeselijkste ellende die hem ooit overkomen kon. Adam
verloor vele dingen, namelijk het geheele beeld Gods, vereeniging
met God, gerechtigheid, vrede, troost, het paradijs
en al de vruchten en genoegens van hetzelve.


English:

3rd. With the loss of this life Adam was threatened in
case of disobedience, as the greatest loss and
the most terrible misery that could ever happen to him. Adam
lost many things, namely the whole image of God, union
with God, righteousness, peace, comfort, paradise
and the same with all the fruits and delights..




.

Edited by Abramelin, 24 March 2013 - 01:20 PM.


#3051    Abramelin

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:09 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 24 March 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

The OLB word for "naked" is....."nâked".


Êr thêre aerge tid kêm was vs lând thaet skênnéste in wr.alda. Svnne rês hager aend thêr was sjelden frost. Anda bâma aend trêjon waxton frügda ând nochta,

Before the bad time came our country was the most beautiful in the world. The sun rose higher, and there was seldom frost. On the trees and shrubs (?) grew fruits and nuts (Dutch: vruchten en noten)

But the two words are also used in a metaphorical sense in the OLB, and then they mean "vreugde en ge-neugten" or "joy and pleasures".

+++


EDIT:

Personally I think that those "nochta" growing on trees and shrubs should be "nota". No old Germanic word has a -CH- or - K- in it. Only in Latin we have "nux".

.

Another word for 'naked', used in the OLB, is blât  (Dutch: bloot)


#3052    Knul

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:20 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 23 March 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

No, he claimed it was located in Belgium.

But his etymology..... well, I don't agree with it.

Here is a Dutch Wiki page about him (and I hope you can read Dutch) :

http://nl.wikipedia....Albert_Delahaye

But like I told Otharus. long ago, he was someone to be reckoned with, He was no idiot.


.

Delahaye based his theory on the transgression and moved everything to northern France, mainly Picardie. However, the transgression theory has been modified by geologists. Besides Delahaye did not explain why everything had been moved to the northern France and not to the higher areas of the Netherlands and/or Germany.

Edited by Knul, 24 March 2013 - 01:26 PM.


#3053    Abramelin

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:23 PM

View PostKnul, on 24 March 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Delahaye based his theory on the transgression and moved everything to northern France, mainly Picardie. However, the transgression theory has been modified by geologists.

That's what I said:

View PostAbramelin, on 23 March 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Hmmm.... do you know of Delahaye's theories?

The Nifterlake site Knul registered on is all about Delahaye.

One of Delahaye's claims is that much of the Netherlands didn't even exist between 200 and 1000 CE, based on the now discarded theory of the Dunkirk Transgressions.

According to Delahaye half of the Netherlands was flooded, uninhabitable.

But it has no relevance to the OLB. The OLB narrative is about a period long before 200 CE.

That is, of course, if you believe the OLB narrative to be a true account of the history of ancient Europe...

I don't.

.


Edited by Abramelin, 24 March 2013 - 01:24 PM.


#3054    The Puzzler

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:11 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 24 March 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

Another word for 'naked', used in the OLB, is blât  (Dutch: bloot)

You also said this:

Quote

Personally I think that those "nochta" growing on trees and shrubs should be "nota". No old Germanic word has a -CH- or - K- in it. Only in Latin we have "nux".

I tend to agree. There is nòch as 'enough'  though. I am aware nochte is still/night in the dictionary.  Maybe it's not fruit and nuts but an 'abundance of fruit' ...? There is no line over the o in the OLB word transliteration though...

næch




, afries., Adv.: nhd. genug; ne. enough (Adv.); Vw.: s. e-; E.: germ. *næga-,


*nægaz, Adj.: nhd. genug; s. idg. *ene¨-, *ne¨-, *en¨-, *¤¨-, *h

1ne¨-, V., reichen

----------------------------------------

How are they getting nuts from nochta anyway?

Edited by The Puzzler, 24 March 2013 - 03:17 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3055    The Puzzler

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:27 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 24 March 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

I remembered that Knul once said that "vruchten en genoegens" ("fruits and delights") is a Biblical expression

http://www.unexplain...35#entry4197419

++

EDIT:

Well, it's not in the Bible itself (I think), but it appears to be a Dutch explanation of an episode in the Bible.

From the pdf Knul linked to:

3e. Met het verlies van dit leven werd Adam gedreigd
ingeval van ongehoorzaamheid, als het grootste verlies en
de vreeselijkste ellende die hem ooit overkomen kon. Adam
verloor vele dingen, namelijk het geheele beeld Gods, vereeniging
met God, gerechtigheid, vrede, troost, het paradijs
en al de vruchten en genoegens van hetzelve.


English:

3rd. With the loss of this life Adam was threatened in
case of disobedience, as the greatest loss and
the most terrible misery that could ever happen to him. Adam
lost many things, namely the whole image of God, union
with God, righteousness, peace, comfort, paradise
and the same with all the fruits and delights..




.
Maybe that word could also be translated as 'abundance'. As in a cornucopia.

genoegens
enough


enough (adj.) Posted Image c.1300, from Old English genog, a common Germanic formation (cf. Old Saxon ginog, Old Frisian enoch, Dutch genoeg, Old High German ginuog, German genug, Old Norse gnogr, Gothic ganohs). http://www.etymonlin...php?term=enough

Edited by The Puzzler, 24 March 2013 - 03:33 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3056    Van Gorp

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:27 PM

View PostKnul, on 24 March 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Delahaye based his theory on the transgression and moved everything to northern France, mainly Picardie. However, the transgression theory has been modified by geologists. Besides Delahaye did not explain why everything had been moved to the northern France and not to the higher areas of the Netherlands and/or Germany.

Delahaye did explain many of his views, at least I could find some: roughly (you can agree or disagree, but saying he didn't try to explain is not correct)
  • an elaborate studie on sources where it became clear that much of northern France history recordings seemed to be equal with Dutch/German history.
  • Delahaye did explain why in his eyes many of these tales originated and should be placed in Pas-De-Calais and Picardië (same as Saxonia: original not in Germany, but where the Litus Saxonicum was):
  • the conquest between Romans on the border of Gaul and Germania took place where still the language border is: northern France.
  • there was no reason to defend Gaul from incoming Germans in the middle of Germany (sic!), this was needed where the Germans lived nearest Gaul: see Roman-Germanic language border
  • The Franks (stronghold in northern France Noyon) did not need to fight Frisians some hundred kilometres north but right where they lived:
  • There is not much of Roman and Frankish archeoligical evidence in Germany
  • Charlemagne kind of forced the conquered people in those areas to cultivate new land won on the sea in northern Germany (not the other way around).
In that sens: much to discuss and against common views but explained: ->no Germanic migration from north to south, but from south to the new land in the north.
There are still some discussions on the transgressions but they don't change the conclusion of habitabillity: not continous.  Seems hard to accept for some.


#3057    Knul

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:15 PM

View PostVan Gorp, on 24 March 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Delahaye did explain many of his views, at least I could find some: roughly (you can agree or disagree, but saying he didn't try to explain is not correct)
  • an elaborate studie on sources where it became clear that much of northern France history recordings seemed to be equal with Dutch/German history.
  • Delahaye did explain why in his eyes many of these tales originated and should be placed in Pas-De-Calais and Picardië (same as Saxonia: original not in Germany, but where the Litus Saxonicum was):
  • the conquest between Romans on the border of Gaul and Germania took place where still the language border is: northern France.
  • there was no reason to defend Gaul from incoming Germans in the middle of Germany (sic!), this was needed where the Germans lived nearest Gaul: see Roman-Germanic language border
  • The Franks (stronghold in northern France Noyon) did not need to fight Frisians some hundred kilometres north but right where they lived:
  • There is not much of Roman and Frankish archeoligical evidence in Germany
  • Charlemagne kind of forced the conquered people in those areas to cultivate new land won on the sea in northern Germany (not the other way around).
In that sens: much to discuss and against common views but explained: ->no Germanic migration from north to south, but from south to the new land in the north.
There are still some discussions on the transgressions but they don't change the conclusion of habitabillity: not continous.  Seems hard to accept for some.

Posted Image

http://www.boekenrou...px?BoekID=32356

Edited by Knul, 24 March 2013 - 04:27 PM.


#3058    Abramelin

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:37 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 24 March 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Maybe that word could also be translated as 'abundance'. As in a cornucopia.

genoegens
enough


enough (adj.) Posted Image c.1300, from Old English genog, a common Germanic formation (cf. Old Saxon ginog, Old Frisian enoch, Dutch genoeg, Old High German ginuog, German genug, Old Norse gnogr, Gothic ganohs). http://www.etymonlin...php?term=enough

But then It doesn't fit in the sentence.

View PostThe Puzzler, on 24 March 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

You also said this:

I tend to agree. There is nòch as 'enough'  though. I am aware nochte is still/night in the dictionary.  Maybe it's not fruit and nuts but an 'abundance of fruit' ...? There is no line over the o in the OLB word transliteration though...

næch




, afries., Adv.: nhd. genug; ne. enough (Adv.); Vw.: s. e-; E.: germ. *næga-,


*nægaz, Adj.: nhd. genug; s. idg. *ene¨-, *ne¨-, *en¨-, *¤¨-, *h

1ne¨-, V., reichen

----------------------------------------

How are they getting nuts from nochta anyway?

From Latin "nux".


#3059    The Puzzler

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:26 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 24 March 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

But then It doesn't fit in the sentence.



From Latin "nux".

It fits and I showed Dutch genoeg is enough so it must fit cause that's the word. The trouble is you are now seeing this word as 'delights' but it's really 'enough'.

This meaning is not unusual imo and if you look at it as abundance and fruits of abundance, cornucopia it all fits very neat and nicely.

God didn't give us delights, God gave us abundance.  An abundance of stuff is however, very delightful.

I don't buy the Frisian/Fryan word is nux/nochta/nuts at all. Not one little bit.

Edited by The Puzzler, 25 March 2013 - 12:30 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3060    The Puzzler

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:52 AM

What I find interesting is that Fryans were in Italy, their language could have been spoken in the area, meaning, many Latin words might themselves derive from Fryan ones.

night/nocturnal/nox and nut/nux are very alike, what is also interesting there is that the moon makes you mad, the night can make you nuts, literally - these words imo may derive from a same root meaning.

Like loon or loony (crazy/mad), a word based in luna, moon.

Edited by The Puzzler, 25 March 2013 - 01:03 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...




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