Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * - 2 votes

Sphinx and GP dates from 10 500 BC?


  • Please log in to reply
1650 replies to this topic

#1531    cladking

cladking

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 7,904 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2006
  • Location:Indiana

  • Tempus fugit.

Posted 19 December 2012 - 05:13 PM

View PostAlcibiades9, on 19 December 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

102 pages in, and we still haven't reached any convincing conclusions here... despite the input of the very best minds the internet can throw up... :whistle:

Orthodoxy spouts the usual threadbare, unproven tombs theory and the alternatives offer tantalising - sometimes entirely reasonable - interpretations that sadly lack a vital smoking gun.

No wonder the Sphinx still has that smug, enigmatic look on its face after 4500 years.










Or should that be 12,500 years? :w00t:

Unfortunately someone left those spouting the threadbare theories in charge.  They won't
even look for smoking guns and probably wouldn't notice one after they shot themselves in
the foot with one.

After reading almost everything I could find on the scientific examination of the second boat
pit back a few years ago (it has been subsequently destroyed), not one single source ever
bothered to mention that they found a living beetle (and apparently very healthy) in it!! I saw
it on a TV program of all places.  It's simply incredible that they would give so much informa-
tion about the conditions inside and not mention life.  I suppose when they destroyed the pit
recently some workmen simply reached out and smashed the dirty little bug.

Coleopteras are even mentioned in the Pyramid Texts but people now days don't notice things
like this and would draw no connection.  Nobody cares what's crawling around in the Pyramid
Texts anymore than they care what's crawling around in a pit sealed 4700 years ago.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#1532    Alcibiades9

Alcibiades9

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 109 posts
  • Joined:07 Jun 2012

Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:41 PM

View Postcladking, on 19 December 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:



After reading almost everything I could find on the scientific examination of the second boat
pit back a few years ago (it has been subsequently destroyed), not one single source ever
bothered to mention that they found a living beetle (and apparently very healthy) in it!!

Weren't Mitt Romney's tax returns down there too?


#1533    cladking

cladking

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 7,904 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2006
  • Location:Indiana

  • Tempus fugit.

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:15 PM

View PostAlcibiades9, on 19 December 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

Weren't Mitt Romney's tax returns down there too?

Are you suggesting beetles reign supreme where death and taxes go to die?

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#1534    cormac mac airt

cormac mac airt

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,597 posts
  • Joined:18 Jun 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tennessee, USA

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:40 PM

View Postcladking, on 19 December 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Unfortunately someone left those spouting the threadbare theories in charge.  They won't
even look for smoking guns and probably wouldn't notice one after they shot themselves in
the foot with one.

After reading almost everything I could find on the scientific examination of the second boat
pit back a few years ago (it has been subsequently destroyed), not one single source ever
bothered to mention that they found a living beetle (and apparently very healthy) in it!
! I saw
it on a TV program of all places.  It's simply incredible that they would give so much informa-
tion about the conditions inside and not mention life.  I suppose when they destroyed the pit
recently some workmen simply reached out and smashed the dirty little bug.

Coleopteras are even mentioned in the Pyramid Texts but people now days don't notice things
like this and would draw no connection.  Nobody cares what's crawling around in the Pyramid
Texts anymore than they care what's crawling around in a pit sealed 4700 years ago.

Quote

"There seems to be less volume of wood compared to the first pit, not because the boat is smaller but because there is more degradation. We did not see any evidence for termites, but one of the first things that we saw actually was a large beetle. So there is an opening somewhere that lets the insects come and go," Ward said.

http://dsc.discovery...ptian-boat.html

Which means, obviously, that the pit wasn't completely sealed. This is not exactly the "mystery" you're trying to make it.

As is more often the case your "smoking guns" are apparently a childs cap-gun without caps.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1535    Alcibiades9

Alcibiades9

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 109 posts
  • Joined:07 Jun 2012

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:10 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 19 December 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

http://dsc.discovery...ptian-boat.html

Which means, obviously, that the pit wasn't completely sealed.  This is not exactly the "mystery" you're trying to make it.

It doesn't mean that at all.  You are simply choosing to conclude that.  They found a beetle, but they did not find an "opening somewhere".  Find the opening, and you solve the mystery.  Until then, you have a mystery... perhaps even the bizarre possibility that a beetle was preserved alive somehow for thousands of years.

As it is, I too would assume that there is probably an opening, but we have to go by the evidence, not mere supposition.   Evidence, cormac, evidence.   Odd that you regularly storm on here with that ridiculous puffed up attitude of yours, and yet you don't even play by your own rules...  you know, the ones you demand cladking plays by.

Ho ho ho :santa:

Edited by Alcibiades9, 19 December 2012 - 08:11 PM.


#1536    cormac mac airt

cormac mac airt

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,597 posts
  • Joined:18 Jun 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tennessee, USA

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:38 PM

View PostAlcibiades9, on 19 December 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

It doesn't mean that at all.  You are simply choosing to conclude that.  They found a beetle, but they did not find an "opening somewhere".  Find the opening, and you solve the mystery.  Until then, you have a mystery... perhaps even the bizarre possibility that a beetle was preserved alive somehow for thousands of years.

As it is, I too would assume that there is probably an opening, but we have to go by the evidence, not mere supposition.   Evidence, cormac, evidence.   Odd that you regularly storm on here with that ridiculous puffed up attitude of yours, and yet you don't even play by your own rules...  you know, the ones you demand cladking plays by.

Ho ho ho :santa:

Sorry, that excuse just doesn't wash:

Quote


The boat was removed from the pit to a nearby warehouse where the late master of restorers Ahmed Youssef spent more than 20 years reassembling it. It is now exhibited at the Khufu Solar Boat Museum near to the Great Pyramid. The second solar boat remained sealed in its pit until 1987 when the American National Geographic Society examined it in association with the Egyptian Office for Historical Monuments. The team penetrated the limestone ceiling and inserted a tiny camera ascertain the boat’s status, then sealing the pit again. Unfortunately the hole made leaked air into the pit, allowing insects to thrive inside and damage some part of the boat’s wooden beams.

http://english.ahram...t-revealed.aspx

Merry Christmas to you too.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1537    cladking

cladking

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 7,904 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2006
  • Location:Indiana

  • Tempus fugit.

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:38 PM

View PostAlcibiades9, on 19 December 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

It doesn't mean that at all.  You are simply choosing to conclude that.  They found a beetle, but they did not find an "opening somewhere".  Find the opening, and you solve the mystery.  Until then, you have a mystery... perhaps even the bizarre possibility that a beetle was preserved alive somehow for thousands of years.

As it is, I too would assume that there is probably an opening, but we have to go by the evidence, not mere supposition.  


Yes.  I agree.  They also said;

"Although the boat has been sealed in the pit for the last 4,500 years, it seems that in 1954 the archaeologist who discovered it opened a small hole, and insects were able to get inside. These insects may have caused some damage to the wood," Hawass said."

This is just more assumption.  Insects need water, food, and air.  To live for a protracted
period of time they either need to reproduce or to live a long time individually.  It's hardly
reasonable to assume that insects live down here but go elsewhere for water.  It's even
more implausible that they must go through a single small hole.

I'm hardly suggesting there must be some unknown mechanism at play, merely that real
scientists don't destroy evidence and make layered assumptions.  The existence of a beetle
is somewhat surprising due to the arid conditions and probable very difficult egress (perhaps
even impossible before 1954).  Simply stated if there is water and beetles here then why is
the boat still here.  It is exactly mysteries of this sort that usually lead to new discoveries but
when you're hell bent on proving failed theories you tend not to notice the mysteries.  Once
your mind is made up you only see what you expect and everything else is invisible.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#1538    Alcibiades9

Alcibiades9

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 109 posts
  • Joined:07 Jun 2012

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:48 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 19 December 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

"The team penetrated the limestone ceiling and inserted a tiny camera ascertain the boat’s status, then sealing the pit again. Unfortunately the hole made leaked air into the pit, allowing insects to thrive inside and damage some part of the boat’s wooden beam"

So a hole was made and insects made a bee-line for it?  Forgive the pun.  Insects rushed in (through the hole while it was open???), and then when it was sealed again they "thrived".  On what?  The ancient wood?

Not questioning your quoting of this at all, it just doesn't make sense.


#1539    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 35,418 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:54 PM

View PostAlcibiades9, on 19 December 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

So a hole was made and insects made a bee-line for it?  Forgive the pun.  Insects rushed in (through the hole while it was open???), and then when it was sealed again they "thrived".  On what?  The ancient wood?

Not questioning your quoting of this at all, it just doesn't make sense.

If they had a hole they could have thrived on anything.

Edit: and for certain insects, like mites, the simple skin scale of those in there before closing it again could have made whole colonies thrive, including the type of insects that prey on mites.

Edited by questionmark, 19 December 2012 - 08:55 PM.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#1540    cormac mac airt

cormac mac airt

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,597 posts
  • Joined:18 Jun 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tennessee, USA

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:58 PM

View PostAlcibiades9, on 19 December 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

So a hole was made and insects made a bee-line for it?  Forgive the pun.  Insects rushed in (through the hole while it was open???), and then when it was sealed again they "thrived".  On what?  The ancient wood?

Not questioning your quoting of this at all, it just doesn't make sense.

The only mystery I see here is how well the pit was sealed from 1987 to 2008. As they mention insects thriving in the pit during that time but only mention one insect found alive when it was reopened that would suggest to me that it wasn't air-tight.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1541    Alcibiades9

Alcibiades9

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 109 posts
  • Joined:07 Jun 2012

Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:51 PM

So a hole is made, bugs pour in, the hole is sealed, the creatures thrive for some time... but ultimately upon reopening there is only one beetle found left alive, the last bug standing.  He sounds like one crazy dude.  I wouldn't mess with him.


#1542    Quaentum

Quaentum

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,575 posts
  • Joined:03 Aug 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • The number of fringe believers is inversely proportional to what is left to discover in our world.

Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:10 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 19 December 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

The only mystery I see here is how well the pit was sealed from 1987 to 2008. As they mention insects thriving in the pit during that time but only mention one insect found alive when it was reopened that would suggest to me that it wasn't air-tight.

cormac

If I remember right from reading about it, when they drilled into the pit, they hoped to get samples of air from when the pit was first sealed.  What they found was air only a few months old.  If air can get in then insects can likely get in as well.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#1543    cladking

cladking

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 7,904 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2006
  • Location:Indiana

  • Tempus fugit.

Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:27 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 20 December 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

If I remember right from reading about it, when they drilled into the pit, they hoped to get samples of air from when the pit was first sealed.  What they found was air only a few months old.  If air can get in then insects can likely get in as well.

http://www.bu.edu/re...ed/egypt-khufu/

"A test to date the carbon dioxide gave an age of 2,000 years. This indicated that it was a mixture of ancient air and a modern counterpart."

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#1544    cormac mac airt

cormac mac airt

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,597 posts
  • Joined:18 Jun 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tennessee, USA

Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:09 PM

View Postcladking, on 20 December 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

http://www.bu.edu/re...ed/egypt-khufu/

"A test to date the carbon dioxide gave an age of 2,000 years. This indicated that it was a mixture of ancient air and a modern counterpart."

Per your own link:

Quote

Carbon dioxide might have been produced by degassing from the organic materials inside the pit or even by being driven off the limestone walls of the chamber.

Neither of which would be representative of the original air in the pit, but byproducts of wood decay or degradation of limestone.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1545    cladking

cladking

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 7,904 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2006
  • Location:Indiana

  • Tempus fugit.

Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:26 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 20 December 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:


Neither of which would be representative of the original air in the pit, but byproducts of wood decay or degradation of limestone.


There's no question the air is ancient probably.  At least that it was half ancient can't be ruled
out by the evidence since the CO2 was half ancient.  If beetles were eating the wood then some
or most of its carbon might have ended upin the pit and all that carbon would be ancient and this
could account for the ancient air; it was just the boat.  But this seems improbable because the only
limitation on beetle population would be water availability.  It doesn't seem reasonable to suppose
that in 4700 years there wouldn't be enough water for the beetles to consume the entire boat.  The
implication being that we are misinterpreting the presense of the beetle.

What's needed are more facts but what are the odds that the beetles were counted, studied, or an-
alyzed?  I'd guess it's very low.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users