Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

THE REAL REASON FOR WAR


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
44 replies to this topic

#31    snuffypuffer

snuffypuffer

    Dandy Fop

  • Member
  • 11,038 posts
  • Joined:26 Feb 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:oklahoma

  • Let's get happy!

Posted 06 August 2003 - 08:59 PM

I'm about to get my ass chewed, I know, but here goes.  I never really supported the war, as I felt the reasons we were going were not the reasons we gave.  I do, however, hope Saddam, Uday, and Qusay have a nice trip to hell, and enjoy the weather.  these were very, very bad people.  The President did, ah, lie, about Iraq attempting to obtain uranium from Africa, I think he knowingly used bad information, and I can't say I'm happy about that.  But, I am proud to live in a country where I can do a jig in the street and yell "@$#! Bush" as loud as I want and no one will kill my family.  I also use the word we, because whether I agree with our policy or not, I'm still an American and if things go bad I'm probably gonna be over there defending my right to hate the president.

Nothing to see here.

#32    Homer

Homer

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,814 posts
  • Joined:16 Mar 2001
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 07 August 2003 - 12:41 AM

QUOTE (snuffypuffer @ Aug 6 2003, 04:59 PM)
The President did, ah, lie, about Iraq attempting to obtain uranium from Africa, I think he knowingly used bad information, and I can't say I'm happy about that. 

snuffypuffer,
This is not correct information. Bush did not lie about what he put in his speech. The controversy involving Iraq's attempt at obtaining uranium from Africa was not about Bush lying, but about the information being supplied by British intelligence and not confirmed by the CIA. Since the British government still stands by that statement, the only thing Bush was being bashed for was not having that confirmed by the CIA. However, his truthfulness was not in question

אַ֭תָּה אֱלֹהֵ֣י יִשְׁעִ֑י

#33    Nancy

Nancy

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,106 posts
  • Joined:07 Mar 2001
  • Location:South Florida

Posted 07 August 2003 - 02:20 AM

Ok, here goes.  So far, I don't see any comments on this thread that
refer to terrorism. Yes, that WORD that is now part of our everyday lives.

WMD... Insane Dictator and his two Insane sons... Lies, lies, lies from Iraq for how many years?

Syria, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanastan, Saudia Arabia... just to name a few, are interconnected with borders unprotected, agendas that are not "Ozzie and Harriet"...  all contribute to the desire to eliminate Western cultures, in one form or the other.

The money flows, the 'bad guys' plot and decent men and women are being ambushed.

How many years has Saddam had to hide, cheat and wiggle his way out of his responsibilities to comply with UN Resolutions? How many months have the various Military Forces "occupied" Iraq?

The difference in Cultures will never, EVER mix. Understanding each other, is impossible!

Remember that several floors of both WTC buildings were reduced to INCHES in height. Remember what happened..........

snuffypuffer? I'm probably right behind you in having my butt chewed as well.

However, someone has to have THE GUTS to confront this "heck" that has landed in the USA lap. I just hope other countries open their eyes and begin to assist the USA in eliminating the enemy. It will not happen in my lifetime, that's for dang certain.  crying.gif  

dying is easy ... tis the living that's hard...

#34    odinsupreme

odinsupreme

    Odin

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,097 posts
  • Joined:01 Jul 2001
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

  • Yes.

Posted 07 August 2003 - 10:18 AM

nancy,

So you would like the western countries to kill all arab's as soon as possible? Good luck...

Whatever everyone is saying now, the reason Bush gave for a war was bullshit! They NEVER found weaopons that would jusitfy the actions they have taken. The whole country is a mes and probably, after a year or so the western forces are gon and an even more unstable en extreem government will rise to power in Iraq.

And for Europe supporting them.. well, a lot of countries didn't have a choice, did they? If they weren't helping the big almighty "God is with us and only us" USA, they wouldn't get any help in the future, no funds, nothing. Good politics USA.. It's normal to discuss things and find a good way out of it, at least with your friends you do, but when threat with such things, you are weak.

The war had it's reasons, and it wasn't only oil. Terrorists were a big point, but why not be honest? Just say why you are going into war, not make a nice story up around it..

Odin


#35    Sageghost

Sageghost

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 227 posts
  • Joined:01 Apr 2003
  • Location:Brisbane

Posted 07 August 2003 - 11:55 AM

QUOTE (Homer @ Aug 7 2003, 01:12 AM)
Michael Moore, who is one of the most hated men in America. Michael Moore and 'Bowling for Columbine' represent his biased, left wing, anti-American  view on American politics and is not considered fair and balanced.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one mate...when I saw Bowling for Columbine I didn't get that impression. Although he obviously has his own opinions about these issues (as does everyone else), I thought the way he conducted his interviews was fair and he gave ample opportunity for those people to tell their story. There seemed to be quite a few questions that these people couldn't readily answer....

I didn't think he was un-American, just questioning the constitutional right to 'bear arms', which would be his right under the 1st amendment.



I was just thinking that of all the trails in this life, there is one that matters more than all the others. It is the trail of a true human being.

#36    Bizarro

Bizarro

    Psychic Spy

  • Closed
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,914 posts
  • Joined:28 Aug 2002
  • Location:USA

Posted 07 August 2003 - 01:44 PM

WHOA.  stop right there, Sageghost.  Michael Moore is not even close to a fair and balanced point of view.  he is a total extremist.  in fact, i know he staged several incidents in that documentary.  its widely reported that the whole getting the gun from the bank thing was staged:

QUOTE
Then there are what we might call artistic lies. "Bowling for Columbine" opens in a branch of the North Country Bank, with Mr. Moore supposedly receiving a free gun in exchange for opening an account. At the end of the scene, he asks a bank employee, "Do you think it's a little dangerous handing out guns in a bank?" before he runs out with the gun in his hand to the beat of a punk rock tune. It is a dazzling opening, full of energy and Strangelovian absurdity. The only problem: It was staged. Commentators have been on Mr. Moore's case about this, some even campaigning to revoke his Oscar, awarded for a genre supposed to be nonfiction. Anthony Zoubeck, a self-described "former Moore fan" who writes for the Illinois State University paper, the Daily Vidette, contacted Helen Steinman, the customer-service representative seen greeting Mr. Moore in the bank. "You can't just come in here and get a gun," Ms. Steinman explained. Mr. Moore "was only supposed to be coming in and pretending to open up a CD. What the girl who opened up the account really told him was that there would be a background check and that he wouldn't get the gun for six weeks."


im not saying i disagree with his views on some things, but i definitely disagree with people who distort the truth to make a point.

here is an interesting link on Michael Moore:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110003807


and just a note.... right to bear arms is the second amendment.  not that you would have any reason to know that but its just some US civics for ya wink2.gif  

if there was a meteor,
adrift amongst space,
set about on a collision course
not with Earth, but my face...
i wonder if id even know,
at what time i might,
be passed off like an old style
and by the meteor be smite?

- me, 1997

#37    Sukato-San

Sukato-San

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 271 posts
  • Joined:22 Jul 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wichita Falls, Texas

  • I defend the honour of Aga Reimei High School!

Posted 07 August 2003 - 01:59 PM

Moore is a zealot, pure and simple.

Que linda me la traiga Cuba,
la reina de la Mar Caribe.
Cielo sol no tiene sangre ahi,
y que triste que no puedo vaya,
Oh va, oh va, va.

#38    Sageghost

Sageghost

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 227 posts
  • Joined:01 Apr 2003
  • Location:Brisbane

Posted 07 August 2003 - 11:32 PM

QUOTE (Bizarro @ Aug 7 2003, 11:44 PM)
and just a note.... right to bear arms is the second amendment.  not that you would have any reason to know that but its just some US civics for ya wink2.gif

I referred to the 1st amendment in relation to his right of free speech about the 2nd amendment, which is the right to bear arms...

Point taken, however, that he used some artistic licence there - I realise there was a six week wait for the gun - but I think the point he was trying to make was the crass incentive used by the bank to get people to open up an account with them. To me that method of promotion is irresponsible. Give them a piggy-bank or something relevant to the nature of the business, you know what I mean?

He may be an extremist to some poeple - but what is it that he is standing for? Gun control isn't it? Surely this would be a step in the right direction? The 2nd amendment was probably very relevant back in 1791 but how relevant is that amendment today? Look at the size of the US armed forces - anyone stupid enough to invade your country (and that is extremely unlikely in my opinion) would be defeated swiftly - therefore is there a need for such widespread gun ownership amongst US citizens? No amount of 'arms' in possession by citizens could have averted the tragedy of those terrorist attacks, for example.

I'm not saying abolish gun ownership altogether. There are perfectly legitimate reasons for gun ownership and I support that wholeheartedly.

Here in Australia I could obtain a licence if I wanted to - but the policies in place ensure I can only own a non-self-loading long-gun (a rifle). Military style automatic weapons are not available, and if I wanted to own a pistol I would need to be in a licenced club.

I'm not saying our policies are perfect (because they aren't). However, Australian national statistics do show the percentage of homicides committed with a firearm in this country has continued along a declining trend since 1969.

In 2001 there were 340 homicides recorded by police in Australia, but I cannot yet quantify the number of homicides committed with a firearm. (source: Aust. Institute of Criminology). As a percentage of the population counted in the 2001 census (18,972,350) this amounts to 0.001% of the population.

One of the issues raised in that documentary seemed to concern the availability of small, automatic, easily concealed weapons, with no practical use (eg hunting) other than to kill people.

I realise this is a very sensitive issue and the views I have stated are merely my opinions - I am in another country after all - but from where I am standing the issue of gun control in the US is something that needs further exploration.

thumbsup.gif


I was just thinking that of all the trails in this life, there is one that matters more than all the others. It is the trail of a true human being.

#39    snuffypuffer

snuffypuffer

    Dandy Fop

  • Member
  • 11,038 posts
  • Joined:26 Feb 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:oklahoma

  • Let's get happy!

Posted 07 August 2003 - 11:38 PM

Okay, Homer, I'll give you that one.  But in a speech when one is attempting to justify a war, you'd think they'd want to check their information a little better.  At the least it's a very sloppy job.  And I'm still waiting for these weapons of mass destruction.  Some residue in a rusty barrel doesn't count.  And Michael Moore, I saw his Oscar speech, he struck me as a self righteous asshole.  Not following his drummer.

Nothing to see here.

#40    Nancy

Nancy

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,106 posts
  • Joined:07 Mar 2001
  • Location:South Florida

Posted 08 August 2003 - 12:58 AM

QUOTE (odinsupreme @ Aug 7 2003, 06:18 AM)
nancy,

So you would like the western countries to kill all arab's as soon as possible? Good luck...

Whatever everyone is saying now, the reason Bush gave for a war was bullshit!
The war had it's reasons, and it wasn't only oil. Terrorists were a big point, but why not be honest? Just say why you are going into war, not make a nice story up around it..

Odin

blink.gif As I suspected, my butt has now been ROYALLY "chewed."  As well, I've been insulted, which is a first for me here at  "UM."  I must admit, all here are welcome to express their personal opinions. Accusations, however, I do not accept.

I said ZIP about "western countries to kill all Arab's as soon as possible." I did say it is important to "eliminate our enemy" ...... that ENEMY being Terrorists, PERIOD.

I never said  a damn thing about supporting or NOT supporting Bush's philosophy OR the reasons the USA WENT to War with Iraq. Odin, it is not up to this ole broad to establish Foreign Policy.... thank God, huh?

I have comments to add, but at the risk of returning insults, I choose not to do so.

Except for an occasional Editorial, I'm outta here. Chicken? Nope.. a Lady? Yes.
Nancy     disgust.gif

dying is easy ... tis the living that's hard...

#41    odinsupreme

odinsupreme

    Odin

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,097 posts
  • Joined:01 Jul 2001
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

  • Yes.

Posted 08 August 2003 - 01:05 PM

Nancy,

It's wasn't meant as an insult..  dontgetit.gif

Odin


#42    Bizarro

Bizarro

    Psychic Spy

  • Closed
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,914 posts
  • Joined:28 Aug 2002
  • Location:USA

Posted 08 August 2003 - 10:17 PM

Sageghost, while i understand your perspective completely, you would have to live in the US to understand this issue.  gun control is a noble thing, but if the government came driving through Alabama collecting guns you would see a civil war the likes never seen on this Earth.  people here would never give up their weapons because they believe the government is more of a threat to them than their weapons are.  most people would rather die than give up their gun.  its that simple.

now, maybe there will come a day when automatic (most already banned) or semi automatic guns are outlawed but i doubt that too.  people worry too much about the government and they want these high powered weapons to ensure the government doesn't try anything funny.  

i don't agree with these philosophies, im just letting you know they exist.  i don't own a gun of any kind.  

oh and about the bank giving away a rifle...  lots of people collect guns and trade them where i live.  if a bank offered a rifle they would get a lot more customers than if they offered a piggy bank.  its just the culture.

if there was a meteor,
adrift amongst space,
set about on a collision course
not with Earth, but my face...
i wonder if id even know,
at what time i might,
be passed off like an old style
and by the meteor be smite?

- me, 1997

#43    Nancy

Nancy

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,106 posts
  • Joined:07 Mar 2001
  • Location:South Florida

Posted 09 August 2003 - 11:51 PM

QUOTE (odinsupreme @ Aug 8 2003, 09:05 AM)
Nancy,

It's wasn't meant as an insult..  dontgetit.gif

Odin

Odin...... This THREAD was begun by you back in March 2003.
You may not have intended to insult me, but if you read your response to me... closely then you will realize it is fraught with insults and lack of respect.

The subject of September 11th and Terrorism is a touchy one, for certain.

THAT said, I do not intend to carry this any further. I've thought this through
and........ to my amazement, several Members sent me Personal Messages, asking
that I reconsider my decision to cease this Forum.

Once I read those messages, each...... more than once ... and wiped my eyes as a result of REAL Respect from those Members, I will take their advice.

In order to attempt to retain my sanity, I will however avoid any Threads where you participate.      End of speech.

To those who cared enough to contact me? THANK YOU.... You made this old broad
very proud to "Know" you.......... xoxoxoxo    wub.gif

Respectfully,
N.

dying is easy ... tis the living that's hard...

#44    odinsupreme

odinsupreme

    Odin

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,097 posts
  • Joined:01 Jul 2001
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

  • Yes.

Posted 10 August 2003 - 10:03 AM

Well, you don't need to avoid any threads I write in. I will probably won't be writing anything here when a forum member acts that stupid when someone gives his/her opinion and you start to complain about it. Really very, VERY pathetic..

And above all, when the other members (as you say) support her in her action of "woooooh, me is mad, me is leaving, but not for real".

Odin





#45    Saru

Saru

    Site Webmaster

  • 20,036 posts
  • Joined:06 Mar 2001
  • Gender:Male

  • "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious." - Albert Einstein

Posted 10 August 2003 - 10:20 AM

Odin, let's not draw this out any further.

I realise you did not intend to offend anyone with what you said, but nevertheless someone did take offense, and it would be best to drop the subject before this gets any more out of hand.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users