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Alternative universes: Do they exist?


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#31    MedicTJ

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:28 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 24 February 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

From what I've read the many-worlds interpretation is somewhat popular, supported by theoretical physicists like Michio Kaku and Stephen Hawking.
I think the most unpopular is "consciousness causes collapse", its a throw back to vitalism and contradictory with natural science/natural history.

I still can't wrap my head around that.  Just by observing something collapses the wave function.

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#32    Rlyeh

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:19 AM

View PostMedicTJ, on 24 February 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

I still can't wrap my head around that.  Just by observing something collapses the wave function.
I think because "observation" is kind of ambiguous. It's not as simple as just looking at a particle, there is a direct interaction.


#33    wimfloppp

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 04:39 PM

Dont  forget  frank merton that the other you would be saying that you are the copy not him.


#34    TheLastLazyGun

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:32 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 23 February 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

I suppose the math works out that way, but that other you and me are not you and me.

It's not you and me, but they will be exactly like us in everyway, and so will their world.  They will live on a planet called Earth and David Cameron is the Prime Minister of Great Britain on that planet.  And these people will mirror our actions.  As I speak there is another me on that other Earth writing the exact same post on the exact same thread on the exact same website with all the members of that website exactly the same as all those and this one.

However that other me and that other Earth would be mind-bogglingly far away.  They would be 10 x 10^188 metres far away.  To put that into perspective, the known universe is only 1.475884 X 10^27 metres in length.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun, 24 February 2013 - 05:32 PM.


#35    StarMountainKid

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:46 PM

MedicTJ said:

I believe when we dream our "soul" or subconscious is in an alternate universe.  A real tangible thing.  I can elaborate further if someone would like me to, but I'll leave it at that for now.

My dream alternate universe is a very strange place.

Frank Merton said:

I suppose the math works out that way, but that other you and me are no you and me.

If that other me's environment, history and self is exactly the same as mine, he would be me, wouldn't he? He'd be just in a different location in the multi-verse. What separates my feeling of me here from his feeling of me there except location?

I know I'm me here and he's me somewhere else, I think that would be the only difference. In an infinite multi-verset there are also many (an infinite number of) me's everywhere with every possible variation of environment and history.

There also would be many (infinite) variations of me genetically. These me's would be slightly or dramatically different from this me, variations of me who I would not recognize as me. I suppose these variations would not really be me at all, but would be more like relatives.

In spite of the excellent posts here of contrary view, I still don't think all this would be a physical infinity. Maybe I just don't like infinities, but as I have said before, for an infinite multi-vese to exist, it must already exist as that infinity, in time and space. This would mean everything has already happened. From our perspective, the past has already happened, of course, but the future has already happened as well.

The infinite future is a physical reality within this infinite physical multi-verse. If the future hasn't happened yet, this puts a limit on this infinity somehow in my view. In this sense, there exists an infinite past, but this infinity would stop at the present. Only if the future is included in this infinity could this infinity exist.

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#36    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:19 PM

Yes, for though there can be an infinite number of universes within the multiverse and and infinite number of possible futures, all universes must be at the same point in time. I think there would be a universal time that is constant for all and that to move between one universe and another will not move you through time, simply a different reality to what you have left. I think travel to the future will be impossible, there will be to many contradictions, though as for travel to the past, well, that is another affair.....


#37    TheLastLazyGun

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:02 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 24 February 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

Yes, for though there can be an infinite number of universes within the multiverse and and infinite number of possible futures, all universes must be at the same point in time. I think there would be a universal time that is constant for all and that to move between one universe and another will not move you through time, simply a different reality to what you have left. I think travel to the future will be impossible, there will be to many contradictions, though as for travel to the past, well, that is another affair.....

There could be infinite universes.  If so then all of those infinite universes will, altogether, have infinite times.


#38    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:29 PM

View PostTheLastLazyGun, on 24 February 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

There could be infinite universes.  If so then all of those infinite universes will, altogether, have infinite times.
Perhaps the word time is not sufficient because we see it in terms of minutes, hours, days etc. Perhaps entropy would be better term. Alternate universes may have been formed at different times in that one may have been formed before the other, but entropy would occur at the same rate for all. It is of course possible that events in one universe may have progressed faster, though not in terms of time, more of how people have progressed in technology etc. But this would not mean they are ahead of us in time as we see it, simply more advanced. Then there is the possibility of events turning out differently in an alternate universe that would make it seem theywere in the future. For instance, in this universe you move into new house on March first. On February 24 you visit alternate universe and you other self is already moving into new house, but he is not further advanced in time, simply events in his universe happend differently and the previous occupant was able to move out five days earlier. Complicated, but I hope I make some sense.....





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