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Edward Snowden NSA whistleblower


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#301    Yes_Man

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 09:25 PM

Russia says that he has not applied for Asylum and i think Russia does not care about him


#302    Jessica Christ

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 10:35 PM

Russia and the US have more to gain by working with each other in every avenue possible except for the few areas left where their national interests are at odds with Syria being an example.

Snowden is no Syria. Russia has no vested interest in Snowden.

It is the Russia Human Rights agencies which are interested in Snowden.

These same Human Rights people are a thorn on Russia's government. There is no love between the Russian government and the Human Right's agencies which often accuse them of human rights violations.

On the other hand Russia has nothing to gain by telling Snowden he can enter the country then arresting him and extraditing him to us.

Russia probably realizes that Snowden has information or has passed on information which would show American spying on Russia too and that there would be some information there that Russia might not want revealed.

Russia definitely has nothing to gain by accepting Snowden temporarily then allowing him to flee further only to release information that would harm Russia itself. If they rush in and arrest him and send him to us then Snowden's friends will just release that information.

Seems Russia just wants nothing to do with Snowden.

In any case what is most curious is the involvement of both Russian and international Human Rights agencies such as Amnesty International.

Snowden is not a human rights victim. He never was. He chose to reveal state secrets that he also swore to protect. That makes him a criminal here. No one's human rights are being violated by Prism.


#303    Yamato

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:57 AM

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We took care of Britain with fire and iron in the 18th century and her "Writs of Assistance" were a major reason why.    Now that we've thrown off the shackles of the British, after 230 years of govt growth we have the same oppression to deal with from our own government.   Breaking lesser laws of secrecy that government grants to itself to follow the greater law protecting the rights of every American that the government can't take away should be exculpatory.  Ultimately, if the people decide that they won't tolerate this kind of unconstitutional spying on their persons papers and effects, the government won't get away with it.  The legal question remaining is how many people have to go to jail for their civil disobedience and suffer physically in order to make that change happen?    Letting our liberty fall into a hole like this where we can't even recognize the Bill of Rights as relevant to our society anymore is a great way to ensure that Osama bin Laden wins.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#304    Jessica Christ

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 09:36 AM

View PostYamato, on 15 July 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

We took care of Britain with fire and iron in the 18th century and her "Writs of Assistance" were a major reason why. Now that we've thrown off the shackles of the British, after 230 years of govt growth we have the same oppression to deal with from our own government.   Breaking lesser laws of secrecy that government grants to itself to follow the greater law protecting the rights of every American that the government can't take away should be exculpatory.  Ultimately, if the people decide that they won't tolerate this kind of unconstitutional spying on their persons papers and effects, the government won't get away with it.  The legal question remaining is how many people have to go to jail for their civil disobedience and suffer physically in order to make that change happen? Letting our liberty fall into a hole like this where we can't even recognize the Bill of Rights as relevant to our society anymore is a great way to ensure that Osama bin Laden wins.

Rhetorical exaggeration combined with alarmist platitudes of "letting the terrorists win" if we don't have a revolution and overturn our government?

Edited by The world needs you, 15 July 2013 - 10:01 AM.


#305    Jessica Christ

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 09:49 AM

Quote

"Snowden has enough information to cause more harm to the U.S. government in a single minute than any other person has ever had in the history of the United States," Guardian blogger and columnist Glenn Greenwald told the Argentinean daily La Nacion in an interview published Saturday. "But that is not his objective."

*snip*

"The U.S. government should be on its knees every day praying that nothing happens to Snowden, because if something happens to him, all the information would be revealed and that would be its worst nightmare," he added.

http://worldnews.nbc...alist-says?lite

So if any country hates us, if any terrorist groups hates us, all they have to do is go after Snowden, make it look like we did it, and voila our "worst nightmare" comes true?

Is this a bluff or blackmail?

Doesn't he realize Snowden is now an open target by our enemies, not by us? We want him in court not in a coffin. Those who want our government in a coffin, who want our nation to face instability, who want to Syrianize our streets, now just have to wish Snowden is killed and by which hand does not matter.

Perhaps we should be praying that Putin guards our little Faberge egg. Our little nesting doll which has one secret inside another inside another...


Quote

Glenn Greenwald, a columnist with The Guardian newspaper who closely communicates with Snowden and first reported on his intelligence leaks, told The Associated Press that the former NSA systems analyst has "literally thousands of documents" that constitute "basically the instruction manual for how the NSA is built."


"In order to take documents with him that proved that what he was saying was true he had to take ones that included very sensitive, detailed blueprints of how the NSA does what they do," Greenwald said in Brazil, adding that the interview was taking place about four hours after his last interaction with Snowden.

*snip*

Greenwald told The AP that Snowden has insisted the information from those documents not be made public. The journalist said it "would allow somebody who read them to know exactly how the NSA does what it does, which would in turn allow them to evade that surveillance or replicate it."

Despite their sensitivity, Greenwald said he didn't think that disclosure of the documents would prove harmful to Americans or their national security.

*snip*

Asked about a so-called dead man's pact, which Greenwald has said would allow several people to access Snowden's trove of documents were anything to happen to him, Greenwald replied that "media descriptions of it have been overly simplistic.

"It's not just a matter of, if he dies, things get released, it's more nuanced than that," he said. "It's really just a way to protect himself against extremely rogue behavior on the part of the United States, by which I mean violent actions toward him, designed to end his life, and it's just a way to ensure that nobody feels incentivized to do that."


http://www.huffingto..._n_3596435.html

So basically Greenwald and Snowden are blackmailing the US by claiming if anything happens to him more leaks will be revealed? While also claiming he has "blueprints" for the NSA which would allow others to evade or replicate the NSA? Replicate the NSA? So open-source spying where we all get to do it? And somehow Greenwald still claims this would not hurt our national security....


#306    Yamato

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 10:01 AM

View PostThe world needs you, on 15 July 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Rhetorical exaggeration combined with alarmist platitudes of "letting the terrorist win" if we don't have a revolution and overturn our government?
I didn't invent that platitude. The politicians who passed bills like the Patriot Act are who coined it.  The same policymakers that Snowden just blew the whistle on are who came up with that exaggeration to cow the American people into supporting giving up their rights, so you're confused on this issue.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#307    Yes_Man

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 03:15 PM

Am I the only one who thinks this is one huge publicity stunt by the NSA in what will happen if someone does leak information?


#308    Yamato

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:16 PM

Even the words we use are disingenuous.  Government secrecy is what's contained so that's what's being leaked?   The rhetoric used by the media favors government secrecy over individual privacy.   It's our voice and internet communications that are "leaking".  Snowden isn't a "leaker", he's a whistleblower who exercised civil disobedience to plug a leak in the higher law.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#309    jugoso

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:05 PM

View PostYamato, on 15 July 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

Even the words we use are disingenuous.  Government secrecy is what's contained so that's what's being leaked?   The rhetoric used by the media favors government secrecy over individual privacy.   It's our voice and internet communications that are "leaking". Snowden isn't a "leaker", he's a whistleblower who exercised civil disobedience to plug a leak in the higher law.

You are not alone in this opinion:

Quote

Former two-term GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey of New Hampshire emailed Edward Snowden yesterday
Mr. Snowden,
Provided you have not leaked information that would put in harms way any intelligence agent, I believe you have done the right thing in exposing what I regard as massive violation of the United States Constitution.

Having served in the United States Senate for twelve years as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, the Armed Services Committee and the Judiciary Committee, I think I have a good grounding to reach my conclusion.

To my knowledge, Mr. Snowden has disclosed only the existence of a program and not details that would place any person in harm's way. I regard him as a courageous whistle-blower.

I object to the monumentally disproportionate campaign being waged by the U.S. Government against Edward Snowden, while no effort is being made to identify, remove from office and bring to justice those officials who have abused power, seriously and repeatedly violating the Constitution of the United States and the rights of millions of unsuspecting citizens.

http://www.guardian....-edward-snowden



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Free your mind and you ass will follow.
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#310    Kowalski

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:32 PM

Quote

To my knowledge, Mr. Snowden has disclosed only the existence of a program and not details that would place any person in harm's way. I regard him as a courageous whistle-blower.
I object to the monumentally disproportionate campaign being waged by the U.S. Government against Edward Snowden, while no effort is being made to identify, remove from office and bring to justice those officials who have abused power, seriously and repeatedly violating the Constitution of the United States and the rights of millions of unsuspecting citizens.


Finally! We need more Senators thinking like this! :tsu:


#311    Raptor Witness

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 05:12 AM

Privacy is the most basic and fundamental human right that we had. When Snowden revealed that the NSA could actually watch us form our thoughts as we type, he wasn't revealing information about data collection, he was revealing a weapon.

Of all the weapons that men have created, I think this is the most evil. The reason is simple, it threatens our spiritual relationships. When you attempt to use a man's own thoughts against him, you aren't just attacking him, you are attacking the Spirit inside him.

The NSA may get away with attacking some vessels, but they will find unexpected surprises in a handful. The separation of church and state cannot separate a man's body from his spirit, without permission of the Guardian,  and I'm not talking about the newspaper.

Myths and legends hold many "hidden truths," but the NSA won't find any blueprint for dealing with those. All they will find is desolation without remedy, and revelation without remorse.

Edited by Raptor Witness, 17 July 2013 - 05:17 AM.

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#312    Frank Merton

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 05:22 AM

In the end I think loyalty to one's nation, especially if one has taken an oath to that effect, should take priority, and I see nothing in the information we have gotten that we didn't know already.  Just some embarrassment.  We cannot each of us on our own make decisions of this sort that could effect history, although in this case it seems to be more a case of a minor figure thinking he was not being given enough attention.


#313    preacherman76

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:13 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 17 July 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

In the end I think loyalty to one's nation, especially if one has taken an oath to that effect, should take priority, and I see nothing in the information we have gotten that we didn't know already.  Just some embarrassment.  We cannot each of us on our own make decisions of this sort that could effect history, although in this case it seems to be more a case of a minor figure thinking he was not being given enough attention.

The NSA lied before congress over this exact information. We didnt already know this on record. Bottom line is the NSA is breaking the law. That is a fact.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#314    Frank Merton

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:41 AM

Everyone lies and everyone knows that everyone is lying.  You just want to get upset so you can be angry?


#315    preacherman76

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:48 AM

I dont know what personal feelings have to do with it. The law is broken, openly. If that doesnt have repercusions then we are being ruled by lawless tyrants. They would toss you in a cage for life for far less.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.




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