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Four more years


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#166    and then

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:40 AM

I think Obamacare is just a means to an end.  It will fail miserably - as it was intended to IMO.  Then we will have something akin to the NHS in Britain or whatever they call it in Canada.  Which means that everyone (except the wealthy, of course) will have mediocre care but will not be given a bill at the point of service.  The bill will come on tax day each year and tax "freedom" day will be a thing of the past.  And everyone will gripe and complain and eventually forget it was ever any better.  And speaking of healthcare....I hope Oby gets hemorrhoids :w00t:  it's the least he can do after what he's causing the rest of us to suffer.

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#167    MissMelsWell

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:57 AM

See, you just lost the election... American's are PISSED off that we on average owe more than $6000 per household on medical expenses and 18% of our income goes to healthcare costs...something has to give. No one thnks "obamacare" is the answer. But the majority think it's a step toward a solution.

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#168    F3SS

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:10 AM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 15 November 2012 - 04:57 AM, said:

See, you just lost the election... American's are PISSED off that we on average owe more than $6000 per household on medical expenses and 18% of our income goes to healthcare costs...something has to give. No one thnks "obamacare" is the answer. But the majority think it's a step toward a solution.
Yes and the average person owes how many tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars towards the national debt? Americans are pisssed about that too but apparently that's secondary. If its about money than wouldn't the logical first step be to lower the debt? Getting rid of the biggest costs are always the first steps towards prosperity. After you do that, THEN, we can concentrate on nationwide benefit packages that you get just for being born, if your lucky enough for even that which returns me to the first question i asked that you've blatantly dodged all night.

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#169    MissMelsWell

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:33 AM

But you don't see either. Unless something can be done to restore some yearly monies back to the people, they don't give a rats ass about the national debt. They really don't. They're buried in personal debt, with medical being a huge chunk of that in many cases. As the president you have to do what the people are demanding in some way. If people are sick, and buried in personal debt, nothing can be done about the national debt anyway. In order to have a functioning society, people have to be able to make a living (jobs) they have to be healthy (affordable health care). Pin those things down and people once again start to become interested in the national debt and feel they can do something about it.

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#170    joc

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:45 AM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 15 November 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

But you don't see either. Unless something can be done to restore some yearly monies back to the people, they don't give a rats ass about the national debt. They really don't. They're buried in personal debt, with medical being a huge chunk of that in many cases. As the president you have to do what the people are demanding in some way. If people are sick, and buried in personal debt, nothing can be done about the national debt anyway. In order to have a functioning society, people have to be able to make a living (jobs) they have to be healthy (affordable health care). Pin those things down and people once again start to become interested in the national debt and feel they can do something about it.
You are just 180 degrees out of phase with reality.  I would encourage you to get a second job to pay for the Economics 101 class that you despertely need to take.  You have no idea what you are talking about.  I'm sorry you just don't.  I am sure you are a very sweet person...but you are a very sweet clueless person.  We are on a fast train to hell.  ObamaCare isn't any solution to anything.  Look, here is the truth...Obama was chosen (and not by the people) for one reason...to get ObamaCare passed.  They knew Hillary couldn't do it, and they figured Obama could.  Everything in that legislation was written when Hillary had her closed meetings when Bill was president.  The ENTIRE piece of legislation had one intent...to Nationalize healthcare...with one reason for doing so...to put the Democrats in power forever.  That was the design of the legislation...not to help you with your medical bills but to enslave you as a Democrat Devotee until the day you die.  And it worked...welcome to the club of the Proletariat MissWell.

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#171    MissMelsWell

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:59 AM

That was uncalled for Joc.

And thanks, I've taken a number of "economics" classes which I passed with very good grades.

And if this is a step to national healthcare then fine. But it's not. And I NEVER said "obamacare" was a solution. Not once.

I just see reality. The reality is that people want affordable health care and it's the governments job to get that done through reform and regulations. The fact that the republicans keep wanting to ignore that has dramatically hurt them as a party. If they could come up with a plan to fix it, I'll start listening again, but until then, they don't have mine, my community or my nations best insterests at heart.  The end.

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#172    joc

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:15 PM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 15 November 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

That was uncalled for Joc.

And thanks, I've taken a number of "economics" classes which I passed with very good grades.

And if this is a step to national healthcare then fine. But it's not. And I NEVER said "obamacare" was a solution. Not once.

I just see reality. The reality is that people want affordable health care and it's the governments job to get that done through reform and regulations. The fact that the republicans keep wanting to ignore that has dramatically hurt them as a party. If they could come up with a plan to fix it, I'll start listening again, but until then, they don't have mine, my community or my nations best insterests at heart.  The end.
But you just said this:

Quote

Unless something can be done to restore some yearly monies back to the people, they don't give a rats ass about the national debt. They really don't. They're buried in personal debt...
You don't really see the correlation do you?  Why would they be concerned about their own nation's debt?  Why do people go into debt in their personal lives?  Because they borrow more than they can afford to.  And what does it do to their own personal lives?  It destroys them.
So, it is no surprise that people who don't have any fiscal responsiblity in their own personal situations would care a twit about a federal government that has no fiscal responslibilty either.  

That being said I know there are alot of people MissWells who are deep in debt because of medical bills that they couldn't pay because of lack of insurance.  I'm not talking about them and neither were you.

The fact of the matter is, if the federal government wasn't sucking all the Capital out of the private sector, there would not be a problem with employment at all...the Government is killing Business Reinvestment in this country and THAT is what creates jobs MissWells.
And ObamaCare is what I said, but you didn't listen because you thought I was 'dissing' you.  I apologize for the remarks about you taking Economics 101...but the facts are one thing...and your Perspective is not on the same page as the facts.  That's really all I was saying. :)

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#173    and then

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:45 PM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 15 November 2012 - 04:57 AM, said:

See, you just lost the election... American's are PISSED off that we on average owe more than $6000 per household on medical expenses and 18% of our income goes to healthcare costs...something has to give. No one thnks "obamacare" is the answer. But the majority think it's a step toward a solution.
I lost nothing that I already possessed.  I truly think Oby is bad for the country but the people have spoken and that's good enough for me.  I think Obamacare is just what I said - a means to an end.  And while there definitely needs to be changes to our system, the changes it will bring will, on the whole, be negative I think.

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#174    MissMelsWell

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:37 PM

View Postand then, on 15 November 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

I lost nothing that I already possessed.  I truly think Oby is bad for the country but the people have spoken and that's good enough for me.  I think Obamacare is just what I said - a means to an end.  And while there definitely needs to be changes to our system, the changes it will bring will, on the whole, be negative I think.

You're right, the people have spoken... they re-elected Obama.

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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

#175    shaddow134

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:43 PM

View Postand then, on 15 November 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

I think Obamacare is just a means to an end.  It will fail miserably - as it was intended to IMO.  Then we will have something akin to the NHS in Britain or whatever they call it in Canada.  Which means that everyone (except the wealthy, of course) will have mediocre care but will not be given a bill at the point of service.  The bill will come on tax day each year and tax "freedom" day will be a thing of the past.  And everyone will gripe and complain and eventually forget it was ever any better.  And speaking of healthcare....I hope Oby gets hemorrhoids :w00t:  it's the least he can do after what he's causing the rest of us to suffer.
People in the UK don't go broke getting Medical Treatment on the NHS,which is an issue in the US ( I know this happens i have family in the US ) So you pay more Taxes,big deal. My Mother back in the UK has to take medication every day for the rest of her life and she never has to worry where the cost for her next month of medication comes from.Where's the suffering in that.
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#176    F3SS

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:57 PM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 15 November 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

But you don't see either. Unless something can be done to restore some yearly monies back to the people, they don't give a rats ass about the national debt. They really don't. They're buried in personal debt, with medical being a huge chunk of that in many cases. As the president you have to do what the people are demanding in some way. If people are sick, and buried in personal debt, nothing can be done about the national debt anyway. In order to have a functioning society, people have to be able to make a living (jobs) they have to be healthy (affordable health care). Pin those things down and people once again start to become interested in the national debt and feel they can do something about it.
Something can be done. The government can get the hell out of the way, keep existing reasonable regulations enforced and simplify the tax code all of which would be a far better "start" towards a business friendly America which would mean more jobs. More jobs means more economic prosperity. More economic prosperity means more businesses can afford to provide benefits.
Like I said before, we generally have it pretty damn good in America. A multi-trillion dollar healthcare program is not going to help the longevity of a nation already 16 trillion in debt. The irresponsible actions of government officials are the sole reason America has the problems it does and yet you ask that they come to your rescue. All the doom and gloom you speak of is purely the fault of those you go to for help. And I know things could be better as things always could be but what you describe is a depression era black and white photograph of sickly people roaming the streets everywhere. As if its a rampant plague. The world isn't fair and never will be. There will be sick and out of luck people with or without obamacare. You call me heartless and I say I'm realistic.

View PostMissMelsWell, on 15 November 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:



You're right, the people have spoken... they re-elected Obama.
But, this seems to be all you really care about. I curious to hear what the people have to say in the next few years when the first couple rounds of penalties are enacted and innocent people who didn't buy insurance are hit with a couple thousand dollar fine. Then they won't be able to afford insurance next year because they have to pay that fine and then they get fined again and eventually they end up under a federally sponsored insurance plan that'll be more Chevette than Cadillac and Chevettes weren't known for there quality as much as they were just a cheap means to get by. But that's ok. It won't effect the rich too much. They'll afford fines or insurance no problem and if a super expensive medical procedure is needed they'll just buy insurance then because they can't be denied. That doesn't sound ok for insurance companies though. Once that happens several times that insurance company will be out of business and so on and so on until the government is the last insurance provider left. But that's ok, because either way the poor still wont have to buy anything or get fined and the government will provide. Nothing's different there. So it seems the ones likely to get hit the hardest are the middle class. Buy insurance and you lose a considerable portion of otherwise useful income. Don't buy insurance and you get fined into oblivion until the government is the only insurance option left even if insurance companies are still around. The thousands in penalties that your middle class ass has to pay off leaves any decent insurance package unaffordable. So the end game is single payer. Not by our choice but by their design. And when the government is in charge of something what do they do? Ah yes, they decide who gets what and how it's done. And in a democrat led, liberal PC future of special interests groups, reparations and affirmative action that doesn't bode too well for my white asss. I try and keep as much distance as I can from myself and the government but ultimately I feel they have written the perfect legislation to eventually get me in their shackles either through healthcare or imprisonment for dodging IRS penalties.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-, 15 November 2012 - 09:01 PM.

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#177    Corp

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:14 PM

View Postjoc, on 15 November 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

Look, here is the truth...Obama was chosen (and not by the people) for one reason...to get ObamaCare passed.

The election last week says otherwise.

As for national health care you should give it a try. Much better than the American system in my view, and the view of the vast majority of people living with national health care.

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#178    F3SS

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:42 PM

View PostCorp, on 15 November 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:



The election last week says otherwise.

As for national health care you should give it a try. Much better than the American system in my view, and the view of the vast majority of people living with national health care.

Yes, but one of the major underlying issues here is that our constitutional freedoms have been twisted and trampled on as a result of our NHS. That's what makes obamacare horrid from the start. That is something other countries can't understand and understandably so because other countries have never known the freedoms that the US consitution provides, or rather protects. It's a fairly straight forward document that has been twisted and conformed by "interpretations" that a team of hot dog lawyers had to take all the way to the Supreme Court.
The rest of the mess has yet to unfold. But I must say that American obamacare supporters are adamant that this is not nationalized healthcare. I am adamant that it is designed to end up that way. I am also adamant that a truly universal healthcare system would be far more reasonable. But our current leaders are not fiscally responsible enough to handle any healthcare system ATM.

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#179    joc

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:03 PM

Quote

Posted Imagejoc, on 15 November 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

Look, here is the truth...Obama was chosen (and not by the people) for one reason...to get ObamaCare passed.

Quote

The election last week says otherwise.

As for national health care you should give it a try. Much better than the American system in my view, and the view of the vast majority of people living with national health care.
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say...I'm talking about the FIRST election...yeah he was chosen by the people in the voting booths...but before that, he was chosen to be nominated when Hillary was the obvious favorite...so why did the Dem Higher Ups throw her under the bus so to speak?  Because...they wanted this massive legislation pack that they had sitting in their files already to become law.  For reasons I previously stated.   It might be a good idea in Europe...but you do not understand, and you won't open your mind even a little to view the real game being played here in America.

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#180    F3SS

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:17 PM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 14 November 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:


Another question... If you consider your life not to be a luxury then how do you feel about abortion? I feel any abortion not relatated to major health concerns, rape and incest is a life treated as a luxury item cut off as a matter of convenience to the bearer. That's not a religious view at all. It's a matter of morality that came to fruition on my own will.
MissMels? Why do you refuse to acknowledge this question that I've repeatedly asked you to reply to? I keep answering you. You either agree with me or you feel that is is your life which is not a luxury while others are expendable.

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