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psyche101, on 30 January 2013 - 02:23 AM, said:
Dead set you could have fooled me. The way you keep making stuff up to shoehorn ET in here I cannot fathom you even considering an alternative.
No, ET is not more plausible, just because you have read many woo woo sites that blather on about FTL travel, you feel comfortable with that which you have read often, time travel is not so it is little wonder that you insist this must be ET, yet you cannot give me one single aspect of Father Gill's description that can only be ET, and to have ET as a candidate, that is necessary.
I mentioned quarantine once, and it is a bugbear for me with all claimed ET contact, not just this case. It is pure fantasy to suggest this has been overcome because "Aliens are advanced". They truly are a god to some. Nothing is beyond their powers. Reality is, no matter what Aliens are and where, they live by the same rules we do. Physics are a constant across the Universe.
No, I will not admit that ET is the best explanation for what seems to be an observational vehicle built for terrestrial viewing with human beings described as being on it. Because that would be a lie. And if we read exactly what Father Gill left us, we have no more of a description than that. It is slightly embarrassing in fact that people take such a straightforward statements and start inventing Motherships to take in the observed craft, and assume that because Father Gill did not see legs, they could be 20 foot long. None of that is in the original description, and all I have outlined is the description and asked for other possibilities for a what very much appears to be a terrestrial observanional vehicle with human beings on it. I am more than open to any explanation that can fit this scenari, as offered by Father Gill - delegation from Skunworks maybe? But that is why I think you guys get more wrong with every post. You do not consider any possibility other than ET, and at even the suggestion of an alternative will fight tooth and nail, and invent things left right and centre to make ET fit.
You think it is ET because the craft hovered, and took of quickly right? And because you cannot tie in a recognised vehicle to fit the description as given by Father Gill right?
If that is ET, we need at least a mother ship. Does the idea, not even hypothesis, of time travel require any items additional to what Father Gill has said? I think you are all grabbing at straws and saying our infant steps into this realm of science prove (mind you prove not indicate) that wormholes for space travel are more likely than wormholes for time travel, I mean really? Have a look at it. I have a wild guess, no more wild than ET, but to look at my guess, one does not have to add to Father Gills recollection. You are trying to overshadow this with our earliest understanding of such hypotheses. To qualify ET, you need to add components to Father Gill's description. That I see as an important difference. Time travel can work with the description "as is". And any other option that fits Father Gills recollection is something I would welcome.
Damn you are confused easily! Are you sure you are not being deliberately obtuse?
Your preferences should indicate what people would want to look at? If you have a time machine, what is the restriction? Are you suggesting time travel can only ever be achieved once by a species if possible at all? As I said, this is a missionary, changing the culture of individual clans forever. Traditional beliefs being eradicated and replaced with Christianity. I see absolutely no reason why this would not be of great interest to witness to a social study.
I did not say Father Gill did a crime in the future, and perhaps that is the reason for your confusion, maybe you are not reading the posts through, but skimming across and picking up what you want, which would explain a long list of unanswered questions, when I have had the courtesy to answer each and every one of yours. For your benefit, what I said was "could what Father Gill is doing (in his mission, changing cultures and diverting traditional belief) be considered a crime at some point in the future?" Personally I would like to see Ancient Alien claim makers go to court to prove their claims or be charged with vandalism now. Hell for all you know, I become a world power in 50 years and outlaw Ancient Alien claims and invent a time machine. No more far fetched than an alien. Unless you have come up with one aspect of Father Gill's recollection that can only be alien?
You just do not get it do you.
It is not an explanation it is a filler, a quick fix, the first thing that came into my head when considering what men might be doing on a vehicle that appears to be built for terrestrial observation, with human beings on it that has exceptional performance capabilities described In short, taking Father Gill's words at face value, and trying to fing square pegs to put in square holes. ET is a round peg.
What time paradox? None exist in Father Gills description, not being rude, but do you understand temporal paradoxes, and how many their are? If we do have a paradox here, is it the Grandfather paradox, or the rolling film paradox? If it is the latter, what does that affect?
Like I say, it is not more, if you actually take Father Gills description at what it is. Just the words. Time travel does not need a Mothership that nobody in existence can confirm. If not for the apparent terrestrial use, human beings would still be a question, however nothing need be added for time travel. Space travel needs assistance. Any explanation that can say why human beings on a vehicle that seems built for terrestrial use, and never went into space, will do for starters. That is what I get out of Father Gils description. That is all that should factor.
Yes they are my words, and formed into a question! Gracious man! The craft has a viewing deck, basic engineering question, valid, and unanswered. Do you understand the size of space at all? I really recommend that you have a look at "The Elegant Universe" narrated by Brian Greene. I think it would clear up many things that you seem to be missing with regards to your environment.
A 35 foot craft with a viewing deck, and human beings on it it simply not ET! That is not something that can cross space according to physics! There is not enough room for occupants to spend so long in, no room for fuel, and no room for motors to generate propulsion to cross interstellar distances. The only way to overcome these hurdles is to make stuff up and pretend magical physics exist in some fantasy place.
Yes of course I want to go this route, do you think I posted the questions for decoration? Twice?
These are the basic physics hurdles this craft meets when claimed to be an Interstellar craft. It is that simple. You do not have to be a genius, you just need to tell my theory, heck, and a hypothesis will more than suffice, that allows those factors to be overcome, and not just "Aliens can do anything".
Humans may well know things that ET's do not, and quite possibly ones that visit, Heck, for a start we know more about our planet! We live here!
ET does not have to be advanced, I am not sure why people insist this must always be the case. It's 50/50. ET could well be at exactly the same level of development as us, or behind, or in front. No scenario is favoured when we are considering what might be literally thousands of species we may someday contact.
You hypocrite! You chastised me for saying I ate the last Alien in another thread. You took that seriously! And I remain amazed as to how.
What indicates any part of your post is not serious? You seem quite hot under the collar that you cannot get me to say ET is a good candidate here. And it will remain that way unless you can tell me what in Father Gills description is, and can only be ET.
That is what you are proposing was it not? That because the Universe underwent inflation, that aliens reversed this effect to create a 35 foot Interstellar manned ship?
No? Matter cannot be created? I think Higgs Bosun might disagree with you on that one. To a point you are correct, as Higgs transforms energy into matter, and I agree that energy is neither created not destroyed, but it can be converted into matter.
What happens when matter and anti matter meet? Annihilation. That is destruction of matter, and we have done it.
The total Universe is not inside a ship, so it's totality does not factor from what I can see. But there is a reason that Models such as the Sun and Jupiter are used on calculations concerning hypotheses regard warp travel. If that could be managed into a 35 foot craft, I imagine the world would not have energy problems any longer. We have immediate need for such, space travel would be down the line for us. If we could do this, we would not be burning oil. Only a black hole I think might be able to manage such power in such a small space? However, the very nature of the black hole would crumple a 35 foot craft as well and absorb it, so it is a catch 22.
Not for interstellar journeys, and not for an conceivable terrestrial alien. The closest trip is till years, even at any workable percentage of c. It is too small to hold food for such a journey, and it is too small for proper exercise to stop muscle atrophication. Try spending a weekend in a 3 man tent with two other men, and do not leave it. Then imagine decades of that. It is not a matter of squishing beings in like sardines, they need to move, eat, drink and take a dump. Or you will end up with a vehicle full of dead astronauts at your destination.
No, ET is not more plausible, just because you have read many woo woo sites that blather on about FTL travel, you feel comfortable with that which you have read often, time travel is not so it is little wonder that you insist this must be ET, yet you cannot give me one single aspect of Father Gill's description that can only be ET, and to have ET as a candidate, that is necessary.
I mentioned quarantine once, and it is a bugbear for me with all claimed ET contact, not just this case. It is pure fantasy to suggest this has been overcome because "Aliens are advanced". They truly are a god to some. Nothing is beyond their powers. Reality is, no matter what Aliens are and where, they live by the same rules we do. Physics are a constant across the Universe.
No, I will not admit that ET is the best explanation for what seems to be an observational vehicle built for terrestrial viewing with human beings described as being on it. Because that would be a lie. And if we read exactly what Father Gill left us, we have no more of a description than that. It is slightly embarrassing in fact that people take such a straightforward statements and start inventing Motherships to take in the observed craft, and assume that because Father Gill did not see legs, they could be 20 foot long. None of that is in the original description, and all I have outlined is the description and asked for other possibilities for a what very much appears to be a terrestrial observanional vehicle with human beings on it. I am more than open to any explanation that can fit this scenari, as offered by Father Gill - delegation from Skunworks maybe? But that is why I think you guys get more wrong with every post. You do not consider any possibility other than ET, and at even the suggestion of an alternative will fight tooth and nail, and invent things left right and centre to make ET fit.
You think it is ET because the craft hovered, and took of quickly right? And because you cannot tie in a recognised vehicle to fit the description as given by Father Gill right?
If that is ET, we need at least a mother ship. Does the idea, not even hypothesis, of time travel require any items additional to what Father Gill has said? I think you are all grabbing at straws and saying our infant steps into this realm of science prove (mind you prove not indicate) that wormholes for space travel are more likely than wormholes for time travel, I mean really? Have a look at it. I have a wild guess, no more wild than ET, but to look at my guess, one does not have to add to Father Gills recollection. You are trying to overshadow this with our earliest understanding of such hypotheses. To qualify ET, you need to add components to Father Gill's description. That I see as an important difference. Time travel can work with the description "as is". And any other option that fits Father Gills recollection is something I would welcome.
Damn you are confused easily! Are you sure you are not being deliberately obtuse?
Your preferences should indicate what people would want to look at? If you have a time machine, what is the restriction? Are you suggesting time travel can only ever be achieved once by a species if possible at all? As I said, this is a missionary, changing the culture of individual clans forever. Traditional beliefs being eradicated and replaced with Christianity. I see absolutely no reason why this would not be of great interest to witness to a social study.
I did not say Father Gill did a crime in the future, and perhaps that is the reason for your confusion, maybe you are not reading the posts through, but skimming across and picking up what you want, which would explain a long list of unanswered questions, when I have had the courtesy to answer each and every one of yours. For your benefit, what I said was "could what Father Gill is doing (in his mission, changing cultures and diverting traditional belief) be considered a crime at some point in the future?" Personally I would like to see Ancient Alien claim makers go to court to prove their claims or be charged with vandalism now. Hell for all you know, I become a world power in 50 years and outlaw Ancient Alien claims and invent a time machine. No more far fetched than an alien. Unless you have come up with one aspect of Father Gill's recollection that can only be alien?
You just do not get it do you.
It is not an explanation it is a filler, a quick fix, the first thing that came into my head when considering what men might be doing on a vehicle that appears to be built for terrestrial observation, with human beings on it that has exceptional performance capabilities described In short, taking Father Gill's words at face value, and trying to fing square pegs to put in square holes. ET is a round peg.
What time paradox? None exist in Father Gills description, not being rude, but do you understand temporal paradoxes, and how many their are? If we do have a paradox here, is it the Grandfather paradox, or the rolling film paradox? If it is the latter, what does that affect?
Like I say, it is not more, if you actually take Father Gills description at what it is. Just the words. Time travel does not need a Mothership that nobody in existence can confirm. If not for the apparent terrestrial use, human beings would still be a question, however nothing need be added for time travel. Space travel needs assistance. Any explanation that can say why human beings on a vehicle that seems built for terrestrial use, and never went into space, will do for starters. That is what I get out of Father Gils description. That is all that should factor.
Yes they are my words, and formed into a question! Gracious man! The craft has a viewing deck, basic engineering question, valid, and unanswered. Do you understand the size of space at all? I really recommend that you have a look at "The Elegant Universe" narrated by Brian Greene. I think it would clear up many things that you seem to be missing with regards to your environment.
A 35 foot craft with a viewing deck, and human beings on it it simply not ET! That is not something that can cross space according to physics! There is not enough room for occupants to spend so long in, no room for fuel, and no room for motors to generate propulsion to cross interstellar distances. The only way to overcome these hurdles is to make stuff up and pretend magical physics exist in some fantasy place.
Yes of course I want to go this route, do you think I posted the questions for decoration? Twice?
These are the basic physics hurdles this craft meets when claimed to be an Interstellar craft. It is that simple. You do not have to be a genius, you just need to tell my theory, heck, and a hypothesis will more than suffice, that allows those factors to be overcome, and not just "Aliens can do anything".
Humans may well know things that ET's do not, and quite possibly ones that visit, Heck, for a start we know more about our planet! We live here!
ET does not have to be advanced, I am not sure why people insist this must always be the case. It's 50/50. ET could well be at exactly the same level of development as us, or behind, or in front. No scenario is favoured when we are considering what might be literally thousands of species we may someday contact.
You hypocrite! You chastised me for saying I ate the last Alien in another thread. You took that seriously! And I remain amazed as to how.
What indicates any part of your post is not serious? You seem quite hot under the collar that you cannot get me to say ET is a good candidate here. And it will remain that way unless you can tell me what in Father Gills description is, and can only be ET.
That is what you are proposing was it not? That because the Universe underwent inflation, that aliens reversed this effect to create a 35 foot Interstellar manned ship?
No? Matter cannot be created? I think Higgs Bosun might disagree with you on that one. To a point you are correct, as Higgs transforms energy into matter, and I agree that energy is neither created not destroyed, but it can be converted into matter.
What happens when matter and anti matter meet? Annihilation. That is destruction of matter, and we have done it.
The total Universe is not inside a ship, so it's totality does not factor from what I can see. But there is a reason that Models such as the Sun and Jupiter are used on calculations concerning hypotheses regard warp travel. If that could be managed into a 35 foot craft, I imagine the world would not have energy problems any longer. We have immediate need for such, space travel would be down the line for us. If we could do this, we would not be burning oil. Only a black hole I think might be able to manage such power in such a small space? However, the very nature of the black hole would crumple a 35 foot craft as well and absorb it, so it is a catch 22.
Not for interstellar journeys, and not for an conceivable terrestrial alien. The closest trip is till years, even at any workable percentage of c. It is too small to hold food for such a journey, and it is too small for proper exercise to stop muscle atrophication. Try spending a weekend in a 3 man tent with two other men, and do not leave it. Then imagine decades of that. It is not a matter of squishing beings in like sardines, they need to move, eat, drink and take a dump. Or you will end up with a vehicle full of dead astronauts at your destination.
you sound quite mad, if I am not mistaken. I wouldn't dare dream of convincing you of anything. I am not a miracle worker.
I already put your outlandish explanation last on the list of possibilities. It would be unwise to spend anymore time on a dead end.
I like to move forward and explore some other more likely options. If your skeptical mind keep you glued to the time travelling theory, then it's your choice. If you want to stuck in one place and not move forward toward a more open mind, it's your choice.
Here's some more possible options. If i missed anything, please feel free to add.
1. Human from the past? at least it's more plausible than from the future. If somehow, human acquired near speed of light travel then this is possible. Let say these human spend many years travelling the stars and came back to earth. They would end up in the "future". They would age slower than the people on earth, so in a sense, they came back to the future. As far as we know, we still use rocket power, so this scenario is unlikely without ET. This is where the Ancient Aliens guys could make better argument then me. Could the aliens shared the tech with human then take it away because human are irresponsible with the tech?
2. Human from the presence(at the time)? then black ops have to involved. It is likely that human are capable of such tech at the time? to show themselves to the locals? unlikely
3. ET? possibly as mentioned by many before.
4. Outright lies? possibly, more likely than human from da future
50/50 two options involve ET, two without. If there's more please feel free to add.
i am out.
), one might suggest things like force fields and that kind of thing, perhaps instead of needing spacesuits or oxygen masks (or their equivalent), they surround themselves with a sort of energy field. This might explain why the "open deck" would not be a problem.
(said in jest BTW)
I think I have looked at so many sites and versions of this story since the OP I seemed to have got a little confused.
