Australian teenager Abdullah Elmir

[psyche101]

Australian teenager Abdullah Elmir appears in Islamic State video threatening PM Tony Abbott

A 17-year-old Australian fighting with the Islamic State (IS) group has appeared in a propaganda video in which he tells Prime Minister Tony Abbott the terrorist group will never stop fighting.

The speaker is believed by Australian security agencies to be Abdullah Elmir, a 17-year-old Australian who went missing from his home in Sydney’s west at the end of June.

In the video he delivered a message specifically mentioning Mr Abbott and Australia.

Muslim community leader says video sends 'wrong message'

Sydney Muslim community leader, Jamal Rifi, used his contacts in Lebanon, where his brother is justice minister, to try and find Elmir and his 16-year-old friend when they originally left Australia.

Mr Rifi said today's video is distressing.

"What I saw today made me very upset with a heavy heart because that was a death sentence for this boy," he told 7.30.

LINK

And lets face it, it is indeed a death sentence, this kid probably won't see 18, for sure he wont see 20. A life cut off before it's prime and for what? An imaginary being that scoundrels use as an excuse to rape and pillage.

Radicalisation of Youth is one of the greatest threats we see from Radical Islam today. But I am not seeing how it is being addressed - is it?

[acidhead]

Just curious.... What would you do to address radicalization psyche101?

[Stardrive]

Education.

[freetoroam]

We have allowed islam into the western world over the years with open arms.

I spent years warning about the dangers of allowing a religion with a history and agenda of killing and wanting to kill political figures, the military and all travellers and an open hatred towards the west and I was called racist and so many other things I can not mention here. They draw in the young wannabees, like the criminals and poor were drawn in all those centurus ago with promises of paradise and virgins if they convert and murder.

They have not changed, we where stupid and too trusting and extremely naive.

We have the new generations who still feel like minorities, some of these young muslims do not feel a part of western society, a big reason is because they have been brought up by their parents to follow a religion and way of life to a certain extent which is not of European / western origin, so like so many young who rebel, they join forces with their "brothers" because they can ralate to them and are greeted with open arms.....as for the white converts who join to kill, they are just scum.

Edited October 23, 2014 by freetoroam

[psyche101]

Just curious.... What would you do to address radicalization psyche101?

Could not answer better than Stardrive.

Education will eventually make religion redundant.

[freetoroam]

Could not answer better than Stardrive.

Education will eventually make religion redundant.

Who wil be doing the educating? The mosques? We still got a long way to go yet.

Edited October 23, 2014 by freetoroam

[Peter B]

We have allowed islam into the western world over the years with open arms.

I spent years warning about the dangers of allowing a religion with a history and agenda of killing and wanting to kill political figures, the military and all travellers and an open hatred towards the west and I was called racist and so many other things I can not mention here. They draw in the young wannabees, like the poor were drawn in all those centurus ago with promises of paradise and virgins if they convert and murder.

They have not changed, we where stupid and too trusting and extremely naive.

We have the new generations who still feel like minorities, some of these young muslims do not feel a part of western society, a big reason is because they have been brought up by their parents to follow a religion and way of life to a certain extent which is not of European / western origin, so like so many young who rebel, they join forces with their "brothers" because they can ralate to them and are greeted with open arms.....as for the white converts who join to kill, they are just scum.

With the greatest of respect, FTR, I suspect the problem is more complex and nuanced than you describe it. As H L Mencken put it, "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."

In my experience there are many Muslims who have no interest in carrying on the way you describe, and simply want to live The Quiet Life that we enjoy in so many Western countries; I suspect there are many who are essentially secular Muslims in the way many in the West are secular Christians or secular Jews.

Why then are some drawn to violence? Because, like in any society, there are some who disagree to a great extent with how society should be organised. And because there are some, like in any society, who are drawn to follow charismatic leaders regardless of the leaders' agendas. But people like this have existed in Western society for centuries: thus we had the violent anarchists of a century ago, or the outlaw motorcycle gangs of the last 50 years.

One thing which has struck me in the wake of what's just happened in Ottawa is that some of these people have a background in illegal drugs. I'm not exactly sure what conclusion to draw from it, but I'm curious to know more.

[psyche101]

We have allowed islam into the western world over the years with open arms.

I spent years warning about the dangers of allowing a religion with a history and agenda of killing and wanting to kill political figures, the military and all travellers and an open hatred towards the west and I was called racist and so many other things I can not mention here. They draw in the young wannabees, like the poor were drawn in all those centurus ago with promises of paradise and virgins if they convert and murder.

They have not changed, we where stupid and too trusting and extremely naive.

We have the new generations who still feel like minorities, some of these young muslims do not feel a part of western society, a big reason is because they have been brought up by their parents to follow a religion and way of life to a certain extent which is not of European / western origin, so like so many young who rebel, they join forces with their "brothers" because they can ralate to them and are greeted with open arms.....as for the white converts who join to kill, they are just scum.

Shame so few listed to you because of how "hysterical" you were. With wars never ending, and children being preyed upon, I bet those same people do not see you as hysterical now!

They actually go as far as to prey in them. Radicals actually walk the streets looking for troublemakers, loners, anyone with a personal problem. If one has a problem, one wants to do something, and these predators tell these kids what they want to hear, and how they can bring justice for so many claimed to be "just like them" Young people are impressionable, and I am sure they are more than aware of this too.

Radicalisation in my eyes is a disgusting crime as bad as pedophilia and those doing the recruiting should be subject to the same punishments and public ridicule.

Converts should never be allowed to return.

[+DieChecker]

Sometimes kids are stupid. They get stubborn, rebel and make bad decisions on purpose. Usually it doesn't get them killed or linked up with homicidal manics though.

[Peter B]

Who wil be doing the educating? The mosques? We still got a long way to go yet.

Yes, mosques probably do have a role to play. Consider that most Muslims in Western countries are not running around causing mayhem. This suggests it's not mosques as a catch-all category that is causing radicalisation. Radicalisation is happening in rather more isolated circumstances.

[freetoroam]

With the greatest of respect, FTR, I suspect the problem is more complex and nuanced than you describe it. As H L Mencken put it, "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."

In my experience there are many Muslims who have no interest in carrying on the way you describe, and simply want to live The Quiet Life that we enjoy in so many Western countries; I suspect there are many who are essentially secular Muslims in the way many in the West are secular Christians or secular Jews.

Why then are some drawn to violence? Because, like in any society, there are some who disagree to a great extent with how society should be organised. And because there are some, like in any society, who are drawn to follow charismatic leaders regardless of the leaders' agendas. But people like this have existed in Western society for centuries: thus we had the violent anarchists of a century ago, or the outlaw motorcycle gangs of the last 50 years.

One thing which has struck me in the wake of what's just happened in Ottawa is that some of these people have a background in illegal drugs. I'm not exactly sure what conclusion to draw from it, but I'm curious to know more.

I agree, it is more complex. Also it only takes a few fanatics to cause widespread fear and even just one suicide bomber to cause utter carnage and destruction to families.

Edited October 23, 2014 by freetoroam

[freetoroam]

Shame so few listed to you because of how "hysterical" you were. With wars never ending, and children being preyed upon, I bet those same people do not see you as hysterical now!

They actually go as far as to prey in them. Radicals actually walk the streets looking for troublemakers, loners, anyone with a personal problem. If one has a problem, one wants to do something, and these predators tell these kids what they want to hear, and how they can bring justice for so many claimed to be "just like them" Young people are impressionable, and I am sure they are more than aware of this too.

Radicalisation in my eyes is a disgusting crime as bad as pedophilia and those doing the recruiting should be subject to the same punishments and public ridicule.

Converts should never be allowed to return.

Hysterical is a bit stong,

I would rather call it a foresight in relation to the past.

[freetoroam]

Sometimes kids are stupid. They get stubborn, rebel and make bad decisions on purpose. Usually it doesn't get them killed or linked up with homicidal manics though.

In this case, it does. Thats the problem with this religion. But remember Manson, luckily it got stopped before it could flourish, but the islamists have been around for centuries.

Edited October 23, 2014 by freetoroam

[Peter B]

I think it has to be said that I'd feel marginalised in my own country if my place of worship was vandalised and female members of my family were abused or assaulted because of what they wore.

[acidhead]

Could not answer better than Stardrive.

Education will eventually make religion redundant.

Yes I agree. Education. But I must ask. How will religion become redundant when the POTUS still ends every speech with God bless America? He or she is going to have to stop saying that if this change of perspective is to take off and gain traction. Its actually amazing how religious parts of the USA and Canada still are today.

[+DieChecker]

In this case, it does. Thats the problem with this religion. But remember Manson, luckily it got stopped before it could flourish, but the islamists have been around for centuries.

I do think that Islam does appeal to young men who feel marginalized, and want to join something that will provide them a sense of authority. At least that is how I have seen it being sold to young men over the internet.

We had a young man (he was 19) here in Portland that was called the Christmas Tree Bomber. A naive kid who joined Islam and got involved online with radical fundamentalists. Probably as he was exploring the religion. He then got mixed up in a plot to explode a large car bomb during the Christmas Tree Lighting Ceremony in downtown Portland. Luckily for the citizens of Portland, the "radicals" that he eventually ended up working with to get the "bomb" were FBI agents. It ended up he got 30 years in prison.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2014/1001/Portland-Christmas-tree-bomber-gets-30-years-as-questions-about-arrest-linger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Portland_car_bomb_plot

[psyche101]

Yes, mosques probably do have a role to play. Consider that most Muslims in Western countries are not running around causing mayhem. This suggests it's not mosques as a catch-all category that is causing radicalisation. Radicalisation is happening in rather more isolated circumstances.

The "portable" Mosques. Rentals set up as a 3-6 month Church the Mosques are just a great distraction for them. While people protest Mosques with Placards, the evil creatures slink about streets preying on troubled youths.

Edited October 23, 2014 by psyche101

[+DieChecker]

Education.

Who determines who gets educated with what? Perhaps we should begin by educating the Native Americans so they speak only English and only believe what we teach them? After all they are practicing animistic ceremonies which need to be stomped out. (Sarcasm???)

How is educating people to deny religion any different from educating people to believe in a religion? It isn't, the same techniques are used.

I support the idea of educating people with facts and science, and not speaking of religion other then informatively, so that people can make up their own minds when they understand the entire world, and not just be told one way or the other is correct.

[psyche101]

LINK - Joining The Fight, SBS

I recommend taking the time to view the clip.

[psyche101]

Who determines who gets educated with what? Perhaps we should begin by educating the Native Americans so they speak only English and only believe what we teach them? After all they are practicing animistic ceremonies which need to be stomped out. (Sarcasm???)

How is educating people to deny religion any different from educating people to believe in a religion? It isn't, the same techniques are used.

I support the idea of educating people with facts and science, and not speaking of religion other then informatively, so that people can make up their own minds when they understand the entire world, and not just be told one way or the other is correct.

People should not be taught to deny religion, they should be given all the options and let the facts speak for themselves. If religion was forcefully removed, the smaller minded people could be convinced to take radical movements like IS underground, it needs to simply be made redundant, which science can do.

[psyche101]

I do think that Islam does appeal to young men who feel marginalized, and want to join something that will provide them a sense of authority. At least that is how I have seen it being sold to young men over the internet.

And I am seeing the same downunder, you will enjoy the video I just linked too, I have posted that link before, but it is a great debate and well worth watching.

[psyche101]

Hysterical is a bit stong,

I would rather call it a foresight in relation to the past.

Sorry, that was supposed to be sarcastic to the people who felt you were overreacting, I do not think you did. I agree that I would consider it foresight.

[psyche101]

Yes I agree. Education. But I must ask. How will religion become redundant when the POTUS still ends every speech with God bless America? He or she is going to have to stop saying that if this change of perspective is to take off and gain traction. Its actually amazing how religious parts of the USA and Canada still are today.

Mate, God Bless America has little influence on Australians.

Well you are speaking across Oceans there, I do not have the same problem, it's the other way here, every damn thing we ever celebrated since childhood now offends the Muslim religion and is being banned. We do not go around with God Bless at the end of every speech, and Atheist Politicians are just as welcome as Christian ones here. Whilst we have certain spots where religion is more adhered to, in general, Australia is not particularly religious, the countries religion would be football rather than Christianity or Islam.

The Government has removed religion from Schools here, I sent my kids to a religious school so they could get a full understanding of a Christian outlook such as I was raised, but they learn it in perspective and my own son questioned creation at the age of 7. If a 7 year old can see the glaring holes in religion, I have high hopes that the rest of the globe has a decent chance as well with the correct information placed in front of them. Or perhaps I am a bit optimistic with people.

[+DieChecker]

People should not be taught to deny religion, they should be given all the options and let the facts speak for themselves. If religion was forcefully removed, the smaller minded people could be convinced to take radical movements like IS underground, it needs to simply be made redundant, which science can do.

Perhaps, but I think I've read that it is a part of our basic nature to seek a higher authority, and if we don't find religion we find Bigfoot, Aliens, Ghosts, Elves, or even a political party, or an organization, or a hobby, which becomes our "idol" we worship, and we'll attack and fight anyone who bad mouths that "idol". It is my opinion that if we need religion, then Christianity isn't the worse choice by far that a person could chose.

[psyche101]

I think it has to be said that I'd feel marginalised in my own country if my place of worship was vandalised and female members of my family were abused or assaulted because of what they wore.

If I went into another country, told them their customs suck, insisted on my own, petitioned the Government to implement my law, and refused to discard traditional headdress in the face if a safety issue, protested local customs and had some members of my group threaten the locals and then had the audacity to use an imaginary friend as an excuse, any rational person would not be surprised at all at the adverse reactions we see commonly. It's hardly one sided.