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Bigfoot: real or myth? -- Why? -- Why not?


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#496    toyomotor

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 06:27 AM

View Postpokingjoker, on 08 November 2012 - 04:02 AM, said:

Now im a fan of cryptids and the what if thought line, and i personally believe bigfoot, sasquatch,  yeti, yowie, or whatever name you want to give them are a real possibility. Just because you dont see something doesnt mean it isnt real. i mean cultures all around the world from early man to modern man have tales of sightings, stories, of these creatures, similar to the great apes of africa  which we didnt think existed all that long ago. But i digress my reason for posting is simple, id like to get a feel for the people thoughts. So do you think bigfoot exists, why, why not. Please no bashing on others thoughts. thanks!

Bryan Sykes is a Professor of Human Genetics at the University of Oxford and a Fellow of Wolfson College. Sykes published the first report on retrieving DNA from ancient bone.

He's also completed a comprehensive DNA study of hair samples from what have been described as Yetis, and other local names, throughout the Himalayas.

His analysis has revealed that the so called Yeti (etc)  are in fact the descendants of an ancient admixture of the Polar Bear and the Himalayan Brown Bear. Note that the admixture is ancient, it isn't a recent thing. And this cross breeding is what has produced something that looks like neither a Brown Bear nor a Polar Bear.

There is absolutely no proof at all that human beings actually communicate.

#497    Lilly

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 09:43 AM

View Posttoyomotor, on 11 July 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:


His analysis has revealed that the so called Yeti (etc)  are in fact the descendants of an ancient admixture of the Polar Bear and the Himalayan Brown Bear. Note that the admixture is ancient, it isn't a recent thing. And this cross breeding is what has produced something that looks like neither a Brown Bear nor a Polar Bear.

Exactly, Bigfoot is most likely a misidentified bear. This answers the question as to how something that large can exist without there being more evidence.

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#498    Insanity

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 01:33 AM

View PostSakari, on 08 July 2014 - 09:27 PM, said:

That forums links in that topic did.

Could you be more specific as to which articles or links?
The main site's domain is in China and the forum is in Chinese.  While it has the option for an English forum, it does not appear to translate well.
http://www.planta.cn/forum/index.php

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#499    Sakari

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 02:36 AM

View PostInsanity, on 12 July 2014 - 01:33 AM, said:

Could you be more specific as to which articles or links?
The main site's domain is in China and the forum is in Chinese.  While it has the option for an English forum, it does not appear to translate well.
http://www.planta.cn/forum/index.php

Was in english for me.....The pdf I gave link to.

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#500    Swede

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:45 PM

View PostQuiteContrary, on 11 July 2014 - 05:03 AM, said:

There is no “wonder” on my part as to why the mainstream scientific community has not launched the extensive research project  into the North American Bigfoot I “personally desire”.
I do not “personally desire” a mainstream science research project into the North America Bigfoot .
I do not expect a research project from mainstream science. And I have stated why, previously, repeatedly.
I desired for you, Swede, to provide an example from your post below:
“Secondly, there actually has been, over the years, a number of qualified and specialized studies that have delved into the topic. None of these studies resulted in the confirmation of the various and assorted claims commonly bandied about in mediums such as the present. Please note that the studies referred to do not include such tragic shams as the "Ketchum Report".”  Post #374 Page 25
Bolding is mine

Please provide a single example of a qualified study that has resulted in the confirmation of the presence of a large, bipedal, undocumented, North American primate. What ever "logic" you may be attempting to apply here is quite beyond me.

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#501    Sakari

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 10:05 PM

View PostSwede, on 13 July 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

Please provide a single example of a qualified study that has resulted in the confirmation of the presence of a large, bipedal, undocumented, North American primate. What ever "logic" you may be attempting to apply here is quite beyond me.

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I am 100% sure you are asking the wrong person.

QC has never said, even once, that there is such a thing.

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#502    Swede

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 10:30 PM

View PostQuiteContrary, on 11 July 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

Lockley, et al and Kim, et al, did in fact visit trackway sites before writing their “white papers”.  They encountered the problem of too little information being available for some sites as well as the need for updating.
They then visited, studied, and collected data from some of the worldwide sites referred to in the study in each  “white paper”. They used this collected data (measurements, etc.) in the content of these papers.
This is clearly noted in the papers themselves for anyone to read.  This is why I considered them “field studies”.
The studies use the same trackway data. One, of 60 some worldwide hominid trackways. The other, of only about 11 of the same 60.
As far as your claiming that Meldrum “is not known for conducting a great deal of field work” where did you get this information? I have heard Meldrum say how much time he spends in the field looking for Sasquatch sign (his paper is on a giant North American hominoid trackway).  However, since I cannot quote him exactly, I suggest you contact him and ask him for clarification of your claim.

1) To which paper are you referring? If you are referring to Lockley, et al 2008 (pp. 106-125), your understandings of the paper's evaluation of the 63 reported hominid trackway sites are quite clearly in error. Kindly provide specific and in-context citations and quotes. The paper immediately referenced is not a field report, despite your personal interpretations.

2) In regards to field "Bigfoot research" on Meldrum's part, one of my younger colleagues is a former student (anthropology) of Meldrum. Nor do you appear to be familiar with the temporal and logistical demands of extensive field work, particularly when one is constrained by the demands of more serious research, teaching loads, and funding.

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#503    Swede

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 10:35 PM

View PostSakari, on 13 July 2014 - 10:05 PM, said:

I am 100% sure you are asking the wrong person.

QC has never said, even once, that there is such a thing.

However, to place the full quote in context:

I desired for you, Swede, to provide an example from your post below: (Font color added).
“Secondly, there actually has been, over the years, a number of qualified and specialized studies that have delved into the topic. None of these studies resulted in the confirmation of the various and assorted claims commonly bandied about in mediums such as the present. Please note that the studies referred to do not include such tragic shams as the "Ketchum Report".”  Post #374 Page 25

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#504    Swede

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 10:41 PM

View PostQuiteContrary, on 11 July 2014 - 05:06 AM, said:

Are you sure you are not part of the same “sordid internecine activities” of which you insinuate I appear to be a part. Post #396 Page 27

Quite the contrary young lady.

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#505    Hammerclaw

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 11:13 PM

View Posttoyomotor, on 11 July 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

Bryan Sykes is a Professor of Human Genetics at the University of Oxford and a Fellow of Wolfson College. Sykes published the first report on retrieving DNA from ancient bone.

He's also completed a comprehensive DNA study of hair samples from what have been described as Yetis, and other local names, throughout the Himalayas.

His analysis has revealed that the so called Yeti (etc)  are in fact the descendants of an ancient admixture of the Polar Bear and the Himalayan Brown Bear. Note that the admixture is ancient, it isn't a recent thing. And this cross breeding is what has produced something that looks like neither a Brown Bear nor a Polar Bear.
Polar Bears and Brown Bears are two closely related species that can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. There are hybrid populations of this cross living on several Alaskan islands and they look like brown bears but are genetically close to polar bears. http://news.ucsc.edu...r-genomics.html

Edited by John Wesley Boyd, 13 July 2014 - 11:14 PM.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.167-8),

#506    klambo

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 11:19 PM

View PostLDJ, on 24 June 2014 - 07:48 PM, said:

As far as Loch Ness, if a huge ass whale can survive on something as small as plankton, who am I to doubt that Nessie could survive on something similar?

You do know how much plankton a huge ass whale requires each day don't you? :unsure2: ........................ let's just say it would it would easily out eat you in an "all you can eat" buffet several fold.................. A Whale couldn' t survive Loch Ness for very long..........there simply would not be enough plankton to sustain it. ;)

Edited by klambo, 13 July 2014 - 11:20 PM.


#507    Swede

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 11:22 PM

View PostQuiteContrary, on 11 July 2014 - 05:09 AM, said:

This too is obvious to me, that the public does not have access to every (scientific) study out there.
However, and pertaining to the debate at hand,  how would I know if any examples of a mainstream science study into the North American Bigfoot (no bigfootdom bedfellows plz) exist  if I have no access to them?  I won’t simply assume this to be true without corroborating evidence.
I frankly doubt mainstream science in general gives a darn about investigating the existence of a North American Bigfoot. Thus,  my position in this debate.


And once again, your position/personal interpretation would not be wholly accurate. Personally dislike redundancy, however:

The simple reality is that despite the volume of purported "evidence", there has yet to be any unambiguous data presented in support of a large, undocumented, bipedal, North American primate. Nor have any of the sample testings that you refer to led to any conclusive information. Furthermore, the numerous mufti-disciplinary environmental/anthropological/archaeological studies that have been conducted for many decades have also not yielded any data that would confirm (or even support) the existence of the speculated primate. And we again have the issue of the many documented hoaxes, faking of evidence, falsifiable photography, etc. This latter aspect is further compounded by the rather broad array of wholly amusing explanations that have arisen amongst the "true believers" in an attempt to rationalize the dearth of conclusive data (multidimensional entities, shape shifting, association with UFO's, etc.). And then we have the tales of urban "Bigfoot", train-hopping "Bigfoot", habituated "Bigfoot", ad infinitum. Not to mention the widely disparate physical descriptions of this undocumented primate.

With the above in mind, is there any wonder on your part as to why the professional community is, for the most part, rather skeptical of the legitimate presence of said undocumented primate? And is thus reticent to fund and launch the expansive research project that you personally desire? Particularly in light of the resources already committed to studies that one would expect to result in viable data related to the topic?
(Swede 6-22-14, emphasis added).

What you do not appear to grasp is that the confirmation of a large, undocumented, bipedal, North American primate would be of more than passing interest to quite a number of scientific disciplines. Such authentication would be of notable scientific and even personal significance. Were there any truly credible data that would lead to the confirmation of such a primate, one can rest assured that more intensive research would be initiated. However, to date, and as yet again evidenced by the recently released Sykes' report, there would appear to be no realistic justification for mainstream science to "give a darn". Again, you would not appear to be familiar with the various real-world constraints of credible research. Your perception that it is the "job" of conventional research to "solve mysteries" would appear to be rather naive.

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#508    toyomotor

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:30 AM

View PostJohn Wesley Boyd, on 13 July 2014 - 11:13 PM, said:

Polar Bears and Brown Bears are two closely related species that can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. There are hybrid populations of this cross living on several Alaskan islands and they look like brown bears but are genetically close to polar bears. http://news.ucsc.edu...r-genomics.html

Yes, I think there are genetic versions which look like neither as far as cranial construction goes.

There is absolutely no proof at all that human beings actually communicate.

#509    Hammerclaw

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:45 AM

View Posttoyomotor, on 14 July 2014 - 01:30 AM, said:

Yes, I think there are genetic versions which look like neither as far as cranial construction goes.
I would hypothesise that what Sykes may have chanced upon in the Himalayas, is a relic population of the parent species that led to both Brown Bears and their polar cousins. Do you know of a skull that's been recovered? If not, I wouldn't pay much heed to the fanciful descriptions of the Yeti. In any case, as Ivan T. Sanderson once  pointed out, the animal couldn't survive in the snowy peaks and must live in the forested valleys below them, traversing the high passes from one to the other.

Edited by John Wesley Boyd, 14 July 2014 - 01:47 AM.

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#510    toyomotor

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 02:04 AM

As I understand it, the hybridisation took place thousands of years ago, and the hybrids survived, but in isolation.

I reckon you're right about their habitat, similar to other bears but with the polar bear capability thrown in.

The program didn't show any skulls that I remember, but did describe them as different to Brown Bears and Polar Bears.

There is absolutely no proof at all that human beings actually communicate.




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