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Russian warships gathering off Syria waters


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#151    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:41 AM

View Postand then, on 13 January 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

Playing devil's advocate here Aten. If Syria's forces are really that formidable, why are they struggling, mightily it seems, against an insurgency? It's not like they are showing restraint at all except in regard to the chemical weapons - or do I misread? I agree that none of her Arab neighbors has any intention of attacking Syria/Assad.
Well, that's the classic difficulty with fighting insurgents, isn't it, something Russia and America found out in Afghanistan and the U.S. in Iraq, and which they both should already have known since the U.S. had prior experience in Vietnam, and the Russians had made a speciality of themselves against Hitler and Napoleon. No one ever seems to learn, though.

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#152    .AKUMA.

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:41 PM

View Postand then, on 13 January 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

Playing devil's advocate here Aten.  If Syria's forces are really that formidable, why are they struggling, mightily it seems, against an insurgency?  It's not like they are showing restraint at all except in regard to the chemical weapons - or do I misread?  I agree that none of her Arab neighbors has any intention of attacking Syria/Assad.

Becuase no military force has ever defeated an insurgency, america has been struggling for years in iraq and afghanistan, russia has paid the price, and pakistan is faceing the same threat. Syria's government is fighting a war it can never really win.

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#153    Yamato

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:17 PM

View Postand then, on 14 January 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Exactly..... and if supplies from Moscow stopped coming in today Assad would be in serious trouble very quickly.  My guess is weeks rather than months.
It could mean the difference between victory and defeat.  It could turn the tide either way or grind the war out indefinitely.

Remember that huge ship that we couldn't attack from the USSR that would regularly dock in North Vietnam and resupply them?   There were so many rules of war in that cluster****** of a foreign policy embarrassment, we should be ashamed of ourselves.  What do i know, I'm politically incorrect.  I'd be so poor a Commander in Chief, that I wouldn't let one US pilot fly over that enemy jungle for one minute unless we were willing to fight the war balls-out.

Either balls-out or else we're pulling out.  I will not accept playing political chess with our people.

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#154    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:01 PM

View PostYamato, on 14 January 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

Remember that huge ship that we couldn't attack from the USSR that would regularly dock in North Vietnam and resupply them?
I know what your point is here, and agree, for if you fight war, then you should fight to win, not have one hand tied behind back. But, always a but... Vietnam was essentially a civil war with political system against another, or rather, communism against all out corruption that was the south. Certainly it was partly a proxy war within the cold war, but no Soviet ground forces took part. So there is not some moral superiority by US, as they sent hundreds of thousands of troops into the south. This ultimately caused more deaths as it unneccesarily prolonged the war. You see the analogy here with Syria? US supported a corrupt regime that was a living corpse, yet now points finger at Russia for simply giving moral support to Assad, support that has now been almost withdrawn by the way. As for Soviet experience in Afhanistan. After orderly withdrawl, the country held together, mostly, for two years until Soviet Union fell and money stopped being sent. After US/Nato leave I wonder if Karzai will last two years, maybe two months if he is lucky


#155    OverSword

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:49 PM

View Postpallidin, on 10 January 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

Not to mention the fact that radical islamic muslims have publicly stated their desire to occupy the entire Middle East and place it under Sharia law, oh, and then the entire world.

LOL!  Is it ironic that the USA has done the same thing with democracy?  Don't get me wrong, not a big fan of sharia, and believe in democracy, but they would say 'I'm not a big fan of democracy and I believe in sharia'  Little ironic brother.


#156    and then

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:41 PM

View PostOverSword, on 14 January 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

LOL!  Is it ironic that the USA has done the same thing with democracy?  Don't get me wrong, not a big fan of sharia, and believe in democracy, but they would say 'I'm not a big fan of democracy and I believe in sharia'  Little ironic brother.
A day comes when you have to make a choice though.  It's not just some discussion of esoterica after all.

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#157    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:31 AM

possibly one might believe in Democracy as an abstract concept, but what the "West" is ruled by (certainly in the US and UK) is by no stretch of the imagination "democracy", is it. It's an endlessly repeating "choice" of one of two parties that may call themselves by different names, and argue interminably with each other, but are really both equally incompetent, and both equally powerless at actually doing anything, while the real power is held by the business and media interests that provide their sources of income.

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#158    and then

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:01 PM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 15 January 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

possibly one might believe in Democracy as an abstract concept, but what the "West" is ruled by (certainly in the US and UK) is by no stretch of the imagination "democracy", is it. It's an endlessly repeating "choice" of one of two parties that may call themselves by different names, and argue interminably with each other, but are really both equally incompetent, and both equally powerless at actually doing anything, while the real power is held by the business and media interests that provide their sources of income.
IMO there is much truth in what you say but even so, the system that struggles to life under the corruption is still freer and more sane and prosperous than the medieval horror that Sharia represents.

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#159    Yamato

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:48 PM

Russia, bringing the ammo:

http://www.reuters.c...E90G0Z020130117

This is a BIG deal.   This is what will keep the blood flowing.  

And the US has zero moral authority to say jack diddly about it.   Sorry about that.

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#160    and then

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:33 PM

View PostYamato, on 17 January 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

Russia, bringing the ammo:

http://www.reuters.c...E90G0Z020130117

This is a BIG deal.   This is what will keep the blood flowing.  

And the US has zero moral authority to say jack diddly about it.   Sorry about that.
When the day arrives that the rebels depose Assad and have time to consolidate  they are going to REALLY want revenge on every one they feel did not help them.  These Russians better have a plan for evacuating their citizens if things go bad suddenly because if they get caught by the rebels they'll be slaughtered like animals.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...




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