Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Spreckel Mansion Death/Suicide


  • Please log in to reply
339 replies to this topic

#136    Vincennes

Vincennes

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,309 posts
  • Joined:12 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:15 AM

Regi, You continue to ignore relevant clues that are right there in the record.....  Jonas said that he left the hospital the night Max died to have dinner with Rebecca......

There was NO food in her stomach found during the autopsy !  

To me, this far outweighs what Ann Rule said in her book the she probably did want to sell.  Just the fact that Rebecca's middleclass family has ties to Ann Rule is, in itself, pretty ridiculous!

Go back, look at the timeline.....   Compare the facts in record....   Look at the fact, look at the autopsy!


#137    regi

regi

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,390 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:22 AM

Ducansmom, Zahau picked up Adam Shacknai from the airport that Tuesday afternoon. The two of them later picked up Jonah Shacknai and a friend of Jonah's (Howard "something"..or "something" Howard) from the hospital, and either before or after dinner "Howard" was dropped off at the airport.
After dinner, Jonah was dropped back off at the hospital (where he'd planned to stay the night), and Zahau and Adam went back to the mansion.
Zahau went into the mansion, and Adam went to the guesthouse.
That's what the record reflects, and there's evidence that supports it, and no evidence to dispute it.

The autopsy report states that "the stomach contains 2cc of thick, green material".

Max Shacknai died that following Friday, two days after Zahau's death.


#138    sparkarov

sparkarov

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Joined:24 Jun 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Canada

Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:51 AM

So, forgive me if anything I say is ignorant of the facts--I'm a newbie and I've been reviewing the facts and documents of this case all day.

It doesn't sit well with me. Nothing about this case really seems "right" in my mind. I don't believe that Rebecca murdered Max, intentionally, but perhaps, as stated before, there was some type of accident and she became scared and didn't want to admit to anything in fear. Or, maybe she wasn't involved in the death of Max whatsoever. But her "commiting suicide" two days after? Hm.

Adam seems suspicious to me, after hearing that 911 call, and reviewing all the details. Not only that, but are you freaking kidding me? Cell phone or not, they would've been able to trace the call. My sister was choking and stopped breathing. While my cousin worked on her, I called 911--they knew where I was, I was calling off my cell phone, it wasn't my house. They said "Is your address ______?" and then said help was on the way.

Everything about this is suspicious. The only way I can picture Rebecca committing suicide is if she did have something to do with Max's injury/eventual death, and the guilt was too much. I could see that being plausible, but even though I sound like a broken record... it's just all too fishy.

What about the sister? How much was she questioned regarding Max?

On one hand, I can't help but wonder if Jonah is involved, or as stated, perhaps something to do with business etc. On the other, it's not really hitting my "radar" that he's the cause of either Max or Rebecca's deaths.

I've been thinking heavily about whatever was written on the wall. One site claimed it said, "She saved him. Can he save her?" That sent chills down my spine. Maybe I write too much, but in a random, over-processed scenario it almost seems like Rebecca may have done something to save Max from something.. but could Max save her? Or maybe not Max, maybe Jonah. No, no, that's too utterly stupid, my apologies, newbie here.

Pardon my ramblings. It's all intruiging and unsettling to me.


#139    regi

regi

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,390 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:39 PM

Sparkarov, you're not specific as to why Adam Shacknai seems suspicious to you. What about the 9-1-1 call, and what details are you referring to?
Re: the 9-1-1 call, he immediately relayed the situation, and gave the operator the street name and address of the guesthouse... so I don't know why she had a problem re: where to send an ambulance.

About the message on the door, since I believe Zahau's death was suicide, I come at it from that perspective, but of course, I still can only speculate.
My best interpretation is that the message could have been directed to anyone; that there was grief associated with the incident involving Max (him)... that he was surviving (saved), but for her, help would be too late.


#140    Vincennes

Vincennes

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,309 posts
  • Joined:12 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:36 PM

I tried to post this response previously but somehow it never showed up...So if it's just delayed in electronic land, I apologize for repetition...


Sparkarov, here are my thoughts on things you brought up. Perhaps due to the dense population in that area a trace might take a little longer and it might not identify whether someone in an apartment/condo is on the 1st, 2nd third floor.  The phone would come up with Adam's ID, so the 911 dispatcher asked him his location while she was also tracing. Since he hesitated when trace came by she would have an address and confirmation from him.

The teenage sister was reportedly taking a shower. She has remained steadfast Rebecca did not commit suicide and joined in her requests the case be reopened.   However, I think she was just 15 at the time and to me it seemed possible that Max might have been injured in a play situation.  I am bothered by the fact Max was only 45 inches tall.  A pretty standard bannister height is at least 36"  How would his center of gravity be located that he "fell" over the railing but game of "piggyback" might have elevated him. There is a police animation showing his fall.  It's interesting in that no heights are indicated.

To me the one with the hole in the story is Jonah.  He's dinner trip with Rebecca is dismissed way too quickly.  He had motive (anger?) means (his house knows where everything is) and opportunity.  It seems an hour after being told his son's condition is deteriorating, he leaves the hospital....to get some "sleep" but goes out to dinner with Rebecca and some Howard guy who they drop at the airport. So he is with Rebecca alone and he doesn't go back to the hospital right away...checks into a motel.  So that enlarges his timeframe.  He knows his son is dying but he then goes to get some sleep ????? Odd.....That together with the fact there is almost no food in Rebecca's stomach (except 2 cc of green stuff)...nothing really....Where's the dinner she ate gone to ???

I think he had time to take Rebecca back to the house and ended up hanging her with Adam's assistance which is why Adam didn't pass a lie detector.  Adam says two of three times on the 911 call, "I just woke up" but his bed hadn't been slept in according to the report..................

Just my conjecture..............


#141    regi

regi

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,390 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:16 PM

Jonah Shacknai's whereabouts are well established. There's no question where the man was at any given time. When he left the hospital, he went to sleep at the Ronald MacDonald house. he and Dina both rarely left their son's bedside, and did so only out of necessity. Good Lord! Can that be understood?

Jonah, Adam, and Zahau had dinner at about 8:00 pm, so considering the digestive process, I don't think there would have been much to find as far as stomach contents considering TOD would have been hours later.


#142    Antilles

Antilles

    NCC-1701

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,215 posts
  • Joined:23 Jul 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:2nd star from the left

Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:50 PM

The autopsy showed that the child had a lack of O2 to the brain before he died. The 2 women lied about CPR. Zahau died because the boy died. I've said that from the start.


#143    Vincennes

Vincennes

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,309 posts
  • Joined:12 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:17 PM

In the stomach, the food is bathed in hydrochloric acid, which further breaks down starches and initiates protein digestion. The stomach also acts like a blender, churning the food into a substance called chyme. Once the food is adequately churned, it is released in small increments into the small intestine. The rate of release varies, depending onPosted Image the amount of food matter already in the intestines. Often, if there is a lot of food in the stomach, this will initiate defecation in order to make room for more food. This is why people often have a bowel movement after a hearty meal. It takes anywhere from four to five hours for food to completely clear the stomach. This depends on the size of the stomach, the amount of food ingested, and the amount of material already in the intestines.

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/...l#ixzz2XFUVu4Jw

They left about 8:00 to get dinner, say an hour for finding a restaurant, ordering, and eating.  That would take us to 9:00 p.m.  Time of death was estimated at 1:00 am.  There should be more than 2 ccs

Antilles, maybe it was the CPR not being administered that made him so angry.  She had worked as a type of nurse for a laser eye doctor.  So she should have had at least some CPR training.  So it seems that might be something that really ticked him off.  Also, he does have a history of domestic violence.


#144    Vincennes

Vincennes

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,309 posts
  • Joined:12 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:21 PM

"In the stomach, the food is bathed in hydrochloric acid, which further breaks down starches and initiates protein digestion. The stomach also acts like a blender, churning the food into a substance called chyme. Once the food is adequately churned, it is released in small increments into the small intestine. The rate of release varies, depending onPosted Image the amount of food matter already in the intestines. Often, if there is a lot of food in the stomach, this will initiate defecation in order to make room for more food. This is why people often have a bowel movement after a hearty meal. It takes anywhere from four to five hours for food to completely clear the stomach. This depends on the size of the stomach, the amount of food ingested, and the amount of material already in the intestines."

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/...l#ixzz2XFUVu4Jw

They left the hospital after 8, ordered ate, puts us to 9:00.  Death is estimated at 1:00 am Seems that there should be at least some trace of food?  

Antilles, maybe it's the lack of CPR that made him so mad.  He does have a history of domestic violence.  She had worked as a surgical nurse for a laser eye surgeon.  So she should have had at least some training...  Maybe that it just what set it off.


#145    regi

regi

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,390 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:29 PM

Information in the search warrant for cell records states that after dinner, Jonah Shacknai returned to the hospital around 2000 hours. (That must have been why 8:00 pm. was stuck in my mind.)


#146    Vincennes

Vincennes

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,309 posts
  • Joined:12 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:46 PM

And that sounds like it would be a correct turn around time.  So that puts her eating maybe around 9 - 10 which is what I estimated.

I just  had a thought I'm looking at the empty stomach the wrong way.  The food was, as you said, long gone from her stomach.  Four to five hours would put her death sometime after 2:00 am  If  Jonah left the hospital again for the hotel at 1:55 am......There's the timeframe opportunity for Jonah again.  Ronald McDonald house was full.  He couldn't get in there....... I wonder when his arrival at the hotel was......I don't think I've ever seen that.


#147    Vincennes

Vincennes

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,309 posts
  • Joined:12 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:07 PM

Long time since I dealt with military time.  It just hit me...returning to the hospital at 20:00 is 8:00 pm.  Did he leave the hospital at 8:00 or return at 8:00?

View Postregi, on 25 June 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

Jonah Shacknai's whereabouts are well established. There's no question where the man was at any given time. When he left the hospital, he went to sleep at the Ronald MacDonald house. he and Dina both rarely left their son's bedside, and did so only out of necessity. Good Lord! Can that be understood?

Jonah, Adam, and Zahau had dinner at about 8:00 pm, so considering the digestive process, I don't think there would have been much to find as far as stomach contents considering TOD would have been hours later.

View Postregi, on 25 June 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

Information in the search warrant for cell records states that after dinner, Jonah Shacknai returned to the hospital around 2000 hours. (That must have been why 8:00 pm. was stuck in my mind.)


So I do have a question, did Jonah leave the hospital at 8:00, eat at 8:00, or get back to the hospital at 20:00, also  8:00  ?  I have seen other discrepancies in this reporting, so I don't doubt for a minute that's what you read but could you go back and check.  I will be looking too......

Now you mentioned he left for Ronald McDonald house at 1:55 am.   Ronald McDonald house was full.  That's in the record.  So where did he go at 1:55 am.  When did he check in there... or do we have a case of, I'm going here but then I was there......  With no food in R stomach, this sets the timeframe for the murder after 1:00....Please let me know if you see an account of this time..... I'm looking too...............

Edited by Duncansmom, 25 June 2013 - 09:18 PM.


#148    regi

regi

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,390 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:14 PM

The info in the search warrant is that Jonah arrived back at the hospital around 8:00pm, and that he went to the Ronald MacDonald House next door to sleep.  I know I've seen it documented elsewhere that He hadn't been able to stay there before because it had been full.
Maybe the link to that info. is located somewhere on these pages.

On a personal note, I've had a particularly rough week and a half, and I feel the need to take a little hiatus from all of 'this', so I won't be replying for a while.

Happy research :tu:


#149    Antilles

Antilles

    NCC-1701

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,215 posts
  • Joined:23 Jul 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:2nd star from the left

Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:02 PM

View Postregi, on 25 June 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

The info in the search warrant is that Jonah arrived back at the hospital around 8:00pm, and that he went to the Ronald MacDonald House next door to sleep.  I know I've seen it documented elsewhere that He hadn't been able to stay there before because it had been full.
Maybe the link to that info. is located somewhere on these pages.

On a personal note, I've had a particularly rough week and a half, and I feel the need to take a little hiatus from all of 'this', so I won't be replying for a while.

Happy research :tu:

Thanks very much. Our self appointed expert has retired for a while. What would we do without you.


#150    Lorelilly

Lorelilly

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 44 posts
  • Joined:30 Jun 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Dark Side Of The Moon

  • Godís drifting in heaven, devilís in the mailbox
    I got dust on my shoes, nothing but teardrops.

Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:37 AM

View Postsparkarov, on 24 June 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

So, forgive me if anything I say is ignorant of the facts--I'm a newbie and I've been reviewing the facts and documents of this case all day.

It doesn't sit well with me. Nothing about this case really seems "right" in my mind. I don't believe that Rebecca murdered Max, intentionally, but perhaps, as stated before, there was some type of accident and she became scared and didn't want to admit to anything in fear. Or, maybe she wasn't involved in the death of Max whatsoever. But her "commiting suicide" two days after? Hm.

Adam seems suspicious to me, after hearing that 911 call, and reviewing all the details. Not only that, but are you freaking kidding me? Cell phone or not, they would've been able to trace the call. My sister was choking and stopped breathing. While my cousin worked on her, I called 911--they knew where I was, I was calling off my cell phone, it wasn't my house. They said "Is your address ______?" and then said help was on the way.

Everything about this is suspicious. The only way I can picture Rebecca committing suicide is if she did have something to do with Max's injury/eventual death, and the guilt was too much. I could see that being plausible, but even though I sound like a broken record... it's just all too fishy.

What about the sister? How much was she questioned regarding Max?

On one hand, I can't help but wonder if Jonah is involved, or as stated, perhaps something to do with business etc. On the other, it's not really hitting my "radar" that he's the cause of either Max or Rebecca's deaths.

I've been thinking heavily about whatever was written on the wall. One site claimed it said, "She saved him. Can he save her?" That sent chills down my spine. Maybe I write too much, but in a random, over-processed scenario it almost seems like Rebecca may have done something to save Max from something.. but could Max save her? Or maybe not Max, maybe Jonah. No, no, that's too utterly stupid, my apologies, newbie here.
Pardon my ramblings. It's all intruiging and unsettling to me.
  Newbie here too and don't stop rambling. Your ramble may start someone else's ramble and they we'll have a rumble. Sorry. Anyway, this case is SO strange. The Ex Mrs and her twin sister...I couldn't have thought that up had I tried. Then Jonah's brother, surfing porn that night after dinner. And Rebecca...the entire scene reeks of something other then suicide. Women hang themselves everyday. They do not however bind their legs and hands, and throw themselves over an outside balcony NAKED! The brother being the one that "found" her and cut her down, (I suspect he couldn't have done it the way he said he did. Broken table was the only thing there that would have been high enough for him to have reached her.) is also weird.

The cops came in with one idea and they stuck to it no matter what the evidence, upon further investigation, told them. The scrawled writing has stumped me. And I believe you're correct about what it said: She saved him Can he save her? is what was written. When I first read about this case my Hinky meter went ballistic. I don't think we are ever going to know what happened, so many cases are like this. But the more eyes that look at strange cases the better. The next newbie may be able to figure out what was meant by the scrawl on the door...

pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until in our despair there comes wisdom through the awful grace of God  ~Aeschylus




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users