103 replies to this topic

[RavenHawk]

This occurred in my old neighborhood.  I didn't know Greg or his family.  There were also 6 older children not at home at the time.  Greg was the pastor of one of the largest churches in the city and he worked with MDC and AFD, so just about everyone in this city is touched by this loss.  This is our latest Sandy Hook (I can think of at least two others in recent past).  The facts are not clear at this point.  I believe that a press conference will be issued tomorrow and maybe we will learn better facts.  Here is the latest that we have:

http://www.kob.com/a...6.shtml?cat=500
http://www.kob.com/a...6.shtml?cat=500

The information in the previous news clips is MSM sensationalism to coerce people to call for tight gun control at the expense of our freedom.  These people do not understand that our 2nd Amendment Rights (as with every other Liberty) is far more precious than the lives of all our children for it is their Liberty as well.  Our Freedoms are all we really own.  We shouldn't be susceptible to knee-jerk reactions that threaten our Freedoms.  Life is no guarantee.  It is full of tragedy.  We move on and learn.  These were probably all legal guns.  Taking them away will not stop Man killing Man.  Guns in the private sector are only a threat to government.  That's it.  That's why it is they that are screaming the loudest under the guise of protecting the people.  That was the purpose of the 2nd in the first place; to protect us from the government.  What needs to happen is gun awareness.  Right now, people are just too afraid of guns but they are an integral part of our lives.  People need to learn how to respect guns not fear them.

I have a weird sense about this one.  Given what we know about Greg Griego, it sounds like he could have been an Authoritarian at home, which may have put too much pressure on Nehemiah.  That might have also explained why the older children were not at home.  We'll see what happens as this plays out.

[questionmark]

ExpandMyMind, on 20 January 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

I just realised he was referring to a 'gun safe'. Apparently they are easier to break into. Something to do with their easy access for the owner in a time of crisis.

There are also quality gun safes with quality locking mechanisms at prices you can't buy a good gun for.

[regeneratia]

itsnotoutthere, on 20 January 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

Well after reading some of the comments on these gun control threads american enthusiasm for killing each other knows no bounds. As i've said before, as long as americans would rather their children are shot to pieces than have their guns confiscated then this will just continue. As long as you're all happy with that, carry on.

And what happened in Norway was... what?
Or Chechnya? Or Finland? or ....?

http://www.northjers...ound_world.html

Oh yeah, because we have a ever-glorious US Constitution and highly hallowed Bill of Rights, and because you don't live under anything like them, you think you can pick on the USA? Come on!

I see all the shooting about the side effects of psychiatric drugs, while the USA comprises around 70% of those consumed world-wide, I have heard. Why? Seems so insane to me to live in such a medicated society. It should be noted too that Fluoride is the major constituent in a good portion of psychiatric meds. Of course, if you are reflective at all, this will make you think.

[regeneratia]

Will we see the same event with Fred Phelps?

RavenHawk, on 21 January 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

This occurred in my old neighborhood.  I didn't know Greg or his family.  There were also 6 older children not at home at the time.  Greg was the pastor of one of the largest churches in the city and he worked with MDC and AFD, so just about everyone in this city is touched by this loss.  This is our latest Sandy Hook (I can think of at least two others in recent past).  The facts are not clear at this point.  I believe that a press conference will be issued tomorrow and maybe we will learn better facts.  Here is the latest that we have:

http://www.kob.com/a...6.shtml?cat=500
http://www.kob.com/a...6.shtml?cat=500

The information in the previous news clips is MSM sensationalism to coerce people to call for tight gun control at the expense of our freedom.  These people do not understand that our 2nd Amendment Rights (as with every other Liberty) is far more precious than the lives of all our children for it is their Liberty as well.  Our Freedoms are all we really own.  We shouldn't be susceptible to knee-jerk reactions that threaten our Freedoms.  Life is no guarantee.  It is full of tragedy.  We move on and learn.  These were probably all legal guns.  Taking them away will not stop Man killing Man.  Guns in the private sector are only a threat to government.  That's it.  That's why it is they that are screaming the loudest under the guise of protecting the people.  That was the purpose of the 2nd in the first place; to protect us from the government.  What needs to happen is gun awareness.  Right now, people are just too afraid of guns but they are an integral part of our lives.  People need to learn how to respect guns not fear them.

I have a weird sense about this one.  Given what we know about Greg Griego, it sounds like he could have been an Authoritarian at home, which may have put too much pressure on Nehemiah.  That might have also explained why the older children were not at home.  We'll see what happens as this plays out.

[regeneratia]

questionmark, on 21 January 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

There are also quality gun safes with quality locking mechanisms at prices you can't buy a good gun for.

Trigger locks are good too.

[Sweetpumper]

Seems the pastor had taken a leave of absence for 'personal reasons'.

[Hawkin]

regeneratia, on 21 January 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

Trigger locks are good too.

I have them on my guns.

[little_dreamer]

This reminded me of another case of a 15-year old killer: Kip Kinkel.
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Kip_Kinkel

[Rafterman]

Professor Buzzkill, on 20 January 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

http://www.guardian....oting-five-dead

I am willing to bet that this teen was on anti depressent medication as well..

You realize your post title is debunked by the very article you posted, right?

[tapirmusic]

So I am still not understanding the title of this thread.

Another?

what is that?

To my knowledge there was no AR-15 used in the Aurora shooting.

There was no AR-15 used at the Sandy Hook shooting either.

And after skimming all posted articles of this most recent event, only one mentions that 'police "think" that an AR-15 "may" have been used.'

So, why all the hate and fear of a legal weapon that 'may' have been used in as many as one of the recent shootings?

So what does the first word of the title of this thread mean?

[rashore]

little_dreamer, on 21 January 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

This reminded me of another case of a 15-year old killer: Kip Kinkel.
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Kip_Kinkel

It reminded me of the DeFeo murders http://en.wikipedia....nald_DeFeo,_Jr. James Ruppert http://en.wikipedia....i/James_Ruppert Joseph McAndrew Jr http://www.nbcphilad...117531743.htmland even Lizzie Borden. And a whole handful of other news stories where a kid snaps and kills family members.

I kind of don't see this as a gun issue, though yes, that appears to have been the weapon of choice in this instance. I'm seeing this particular story as a case where the kid snapped and decided to kill, and I'm guessing it's likely that if he hadn't had access to firearms, he would have accomplished his goal in another way.
This kid didn't kill his folks on the way to a further rampage. He killed his family and stopped. And according to reports, he really made sure they were deceased through multiple blows.

I think in this instance, this is a mental health issue, and the weapon of choice matters not one whit. I think that in light of current gun issues, the gun part of this whole case is being brought to the fore instead of the true crime aspect of this. Especially when the thread is falsely titled so provocatively.

I think when I first joined UM, an article like this would have more likely found it's way under True Crime, and possibly discussed in correlation to other child killers of family, or other instances of familicide. Quite possibly would have had the actual article headline as the thread title. Now it's listed under the political headers, with a lot of discussion going to gun laws and such, and the thread title is what it is.

[Uncle Sam]

From my previous posts, seems there is more people who are understanding of the subject than there is people screaming out for gun control. I can tell from the number of likes and the opinions on this thread. Gun owners don't scream as loud as Gun Control people due to the fact there has been a tragedy.

rashore, on 22 January 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

It reminded me of the DeFeo murders http://en.wikipedia....nald_DeFeo,_Jr. James Ruppert http://en.wikipedia....i/James_Ruppert Joseph McAndrew Jr http://www.nbcphilad...117531743.htmland even Lizzie Borden. And a whole handful of other news stories where a kid snaps and kills family members.

I kind of don't see this as a gun issue, though yes, that appears to have been the weapon of choice in this instance. I'm seeing this particular story as a case where the kid snapped and decided to kill, and I'm guessing it's likely that if he hadn't had access to firearms, he would have accomplished his goal in another way.
This kid didn't kill his folks on the way to a further rampage. He killed his family and stopped. And according to reports, he really made sure they were deceased through multiple blows.

I think in this instance, this is a mental health issue, and the weapon of choice matters not one whit. I think that in light of current gun issues, the gun part of this whole case is being brought to the fore instead of the true crime aspect of this. Especially when the thread is falsely titled so provocatively.

I think when I first joined UM, an article like this would have more likely found it's way under True Crime, and possibly discussed in correlation to other child killers of family, or other instances of familicide. Quite possibly would have had the actual article headline as the thread title. Now it's listed under the political headers, with a lot of discussion going to gun laws and such, and the thread title is what it is.

A person with an single goal of killing will find one way or another to do he job rather he has a gun or not.

Edited by Uncle Sam, 22 January 2013 - 12:30 AM.

[Michelle]

It's interesting how people from other countries spend so much time in the US gun topics. They will say it's none of their business, but spend days telling us why and how we are doing it all wrong when we have the laws they propose already in effect. More time is wasted trying to explain to them that we already have these safeguards in place,   but they can't wrap their heads around it.

[Beckys_Mom]

Michelle, on 22 January 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

It's interesting how people from other countries spend so much time in the US gun topics. They will say it's none of their business, but spend days telling us why and how we are doing it all wrong when we have the laws they propose already in effect. More time is wasted trying to explain to them that we already have these safeguards in place,   but they can't wrap their heads around it.

And why do you think people like myself came directly to the gun threads ..What shook us enough to want to talk about it? .... Do you think people like myself are complaining about those of you who know gun safety and how to be safe handling gun  is what we non Americans are getting at??......  How many gun threads do you think there are? ... Do you think that gun control is one of the biggest most talked about topics we know of at present?.....Do you suppose that when something so tragic happens in America, it is broadcast all over the world, ( and never off our tellys ) that we wont get effected by it?.... Do you also think we non Americans are the only ones talking gun control? ...I know you didn't say much to get me to post all those questions, but I had to ask what you did truly think of us?

I once said to an american on here ( a while back )  What goes on in America  and their president, should not bother me.. Five or six Americans and a few others jumped on me and told me I should care and pointed out what can effect me...Maybe they had a point, I should care, and I can see why others do too.. What major events and even most tragic situations that goes on over there, is pushed at us to take notice..Being human of course we will respond.. Who's to blame? .... The media and those who constantly use the topic of guns to spread and multiply..

It started off just one or two threads and now look?...They will be posting up gun threads about some farmer living in the as* hole of nowhere in Colorado, firing his gun at some pesky animals annoying his sheep, and that will kick off some anti gun people.  ....That may sound like sarcasm, but if I read a thread like it, it would not surprise me ..People read things wrongly, and take it all wrong.. Like this post, I am willing to bet someone will read it ( more like glance at it ) and start putting it out that I am suggesting you all should stop talking gun, when in fact I am not, I am just pointing out what I can see

When I read head on through these boards, all I can see that stands out like a sore thumb, are ongoing  gun threads, shootings, anti Obama, he is a hypocrite screw him you guys  kind of threads  non stop..I don't have a problem with it, but it shows you that the gun talk is not going to end soon..

I also see those who talk gun control, most of that I feel is mistaken for  ban all your guns..  I think for many it comes across as that.. I can understand why some Americans feel that's how it sounds..Next thing you know people get defensive  ( and it's natural ) It then gets heated.. What I feel we ( those of us talking about guns ) should do is take a closer look at what is been said in ref to gun laws and weed out the paranoia of wanting guns banned taken away from you all  Weed out paranoia from both sides of the argument .   As Nibs said in another gun thread - BOTH sides  ( the pro gun and anti gun ) are using the media to pump fear in to people, getting people all riled up... The anti gun protests I feel are now getting out of hand, to a point where a 5 year old gets suspended over talking about bubbles from a toy  So I think how far does this have to go? ..I personally feel you all have rights to bare arms, but I feel this anti gun and pro gun paranoia  has went beyond control ..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 22 January 2013 - 11:56 AM.

[Hawkin]

Killings happen everyday with street gangs or motorcycle gangs who obtain weapons illegally but that doesn't
get much front page news because it's a common occurrence. But something like Sandy Hook then the
Media is swooping down on it influencing the public to scream gun control.