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Humanity is totally visible to extraterrestrials


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#16    Lilly

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:28 AM

View Postbadeskov, on 03 March 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:



Not really. By far most of our broadcasts are drowned out in background noise by the time they reach the edge of the solar system....

Exactly. In order for ET to 'know we're here' they'd have to use some other method. Also, I tend to think that in order for ET to deem it worthwhile to pay us a visit they'd have to have some compelling reason. I honestly wonder if ET would actually care that much...even if they were to find us.

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#17    badeskov

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:22 PM

View PostLilly, on 03 March 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:



Exactly. In order for ET to 'know we're here' they'd have to use some other method. Also, I tend to think that in order for ET to deem it worthwhile to pay us a visit they'd have to have some compelling reason. I honestly wonder if ET would actually care that much...even if they were to find us.

Exactly, Lilly.

I can't help thinking that the ET race capable of detecting our presence AND traveling here would probably have done that extensively already and we would just be another data set to visit when convenient, if ever.

The ones really intersted would probably be close to our technological level, have detected our presence as the only one or one out of a select few, but not technologically capable of doing anything with that knowledge.

Then again, who am I to try and figure out what ET would do. Not only can I not even begin to pretend that we know the psychology of ET, but just look at Earth and how biologists here marvel at even the smallest insect when it is revealed as a new species.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited by badeskov, 03 March 2013 - 12:24 PM.

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#18    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:29 PM

It's not our signals that will give us away; it's the free oxygen in our atmosphere.  Once they get a spectrum of the Earth, they will immediately signal it as a planet of interest.  It won't take much more for an advanced science to figure out what we are and at what level.


#19    keithisco

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 10:02 AM

View Postbadeskov, on 03 March 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

Not really. By far most of our broadcasts are drowned out in background noise by the time they reach the edge of the solar system. Contrary to common belief, very few radio signals emitted from Earth actually has the power and directivity to be picked up outside of the Solar system.

Cheers,
Badeskov
It really depends on the sensitivity of the Instrumentation that is collecting the "noise" and its ability to determine what is background, and what is signal. Terrestrially, radio astronomy is making enormous advances in this area, and information that was simply undetectable 20 years ago is now the norm. Not that any irrefutably or replicable intelligent Data Signals have been discovered.


#20    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:56 PM

View Postbadeskov, on 03 March 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

,,,who am I to try and figure out what ET would do.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Good observation. :w00t:

Cheers,
L

Edited by the L, 04 March 2013 - 09:11 PM.

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#21    Occams Razor

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:00 PM

Very small signals can be detected over significant distances with good equipment. The transmitter on the voyager spacecraft is only a quarter of a watt yet can still be received here on Earth by NASA. It is now so far away that the signals from it take 18hrs to get here, that's at around 186000 miles per second. You wouldn't hear it on anything you could build at home though.

Digital TV from satellites is relatively low power and beamed towards the planet so it is not going to be easily detectable over any significant distance. Terrestrial digital TV transmitters are still high power and radiate tens if not hundreds of kilowatts. This may not act as a beacon to extraterrestrials though as the TV broadcasters use a low angle of radiation to provide as much signal strength to their service area as possible. They don't want to waste money radiating signals up and away from the planet.

The sort of thing that does light us up like a Xmas tree is planetary surface mapping by radar and high powered military radars. Planetary surface mapping is done from Aricebo. I wouldn't doubt it's done from other radio telescopes in other countries too. When they looked at Jupiter with the high power radar they couldn't see it, all they could see were Jupiter's moons. The planet didn't return a radar 'echo' as it has no solid core, it's just a large ball of gas. The thing is, to get a radar echo from the moons of Jupiter you have to transmit a very high power radar signal, a signal so powerful that it would travel a significant distance through the galaxy. I think it would be difficult for any alien SETI type installation to not pick it up.

The other thing is METI, Messaging to Extra Terrestrial Intelligence. They broadcast a signal from Aricebo in the late seventies with an effective radiated power of 3 Terawatts. One of the people involved in the broadcast said it was so powerful that if you were sitting on a planet orbiting the closest star to ours you would be able to hear it on a transistor radio. I think the Russians had a go at METI too, although many warn against it issuing the same warnings as Steven Hawking.

I think any technologically advanced species out there knows we're here. Maybe some of them even have the technology to get here and take a look around. Maybe we'll find out in the not too distant future, for better or worse.


#22    krypter3

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:18 PM

I for one would hope that a civilisation that's is apparently far more advanced than us, would be more enlightened to simply make the same mistakes we have in the past.  This isn't a hollywood movie.  If we as a people are capable of seeing what we did back in the day was wrong now, then why should an advanced civilisation be any less enlightened.  Though there is a possibility they are a war like species.  But we can only go up, sooner or later it needs to be done.

I just don't want to be so quick to believe that an alien species would just be so narrow minded as to wipe us off the map.


#23    Occams Razor

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 01:31 AM

View Postkrypter3, on 29 March 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

I for one would hope that a civilisation that's is apparently far more advanced than us, would be more enlightened to simply make the same mistakes we have in the past.  This isn't a hollywood movie.  If we as a people are capable of seeing what we did back in the day was wrong now, then why should an advanced civilisation be any less enlightened.  Though there is a possibility they are a war like species.  But we can only go up, sooner or later it needs to be done.

I just don't want to be so quick to believe that an alien species would just be so narrow minded as to wipe us off the map.

It probably wouldn't be narrow-mindedness, if this were to happen it would be due to pragmatism, they probably wouldn't have a choice. The conditions on this planet may be ideal for them, and they may need somewhere to live.

Although many hundreds of extra-solar planets have been discovered even the ones in the 'goldilocks zone' of their star don't have a protective magnetic field, or don't rotate, or don't have a suitable atmosphere etc. It may be that the great majority of planets out there are like that, just useless rocks or gas giants. The combination of correct distance from star, water, gravity, and atmosphere, a protective magnetic field and decent sized moon to keep the planet orbit stable that we have here seems to be very, very rare from what we've seen so far. If the conditions we have here are ideal conditions for an advanced extraterrestrial species that are capable of inter-stellar travel, and need a new planet to live on, we could be screwed.

Consider too that they would be the dominant species on their planet, so they, just like us, would be predators. They would do whatever was required to ensure the continuation of their species. And it will be about 200 years before we could realistically defend ourselves against an attack from an aggressive alien species. So, if it doesn't happen soon we should be Ok.

Edited by Occams Razor, 07 April 2013 - 01:37 AM.


#24    nothinglizx2

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:49 PM

That whole bulleton was written around the idea that Aliens are stupid.  They aren't stupid, they've been around longer, they've been guiding us behind the scene's often times from within our own cultures.  Our dimension isn't the only dimension.  There are other dimensions from which the alien can observe us and effect us from.  Although we want them to land and approach us and bedazzle us with their technology and their difference, they know all to well that should this happen, they would be met with fear.  There is two polarities on this earth the positive and the negative, sad to say though that the negative dominates the positive here.  Unlike us, alien races would be less wasteful and less destructive with their desires.  The human race is very wasteful when it comes to money and will spend it on one's own desires rather than to add to the benefit of the whole.  Whatever advanced or new technology is discovered or created the governemt, millitary, and corporations will quickly hoard them so that technology like free energy never makes it to the surface where it can help the world to thrive and move off from the planet to other planets in space or add to the interest of space exploration.  The government has technology that is 30 years more advanced than whats in the public sector.  NASA is spending millions of dollars and getting other corporations to do the same on old technology.  At the same time, it won't spend money to help the starving and those who need clothing and shelter, we have a policy of self extermination and unreasonable degradation of our own kind and the reason they say is because they are not american and should not be allowed to enjoy the freedoms that Americans enjoy.  All the same Americans are but Strawmen too and fast asleep in selfishness.  In order to keep from allowing our culture to advance in ways that are dangerous to other life forms in our galaxy or around it, our race must develope slowly to keep us from being too destructive to life forms and planets else where.  If they aid our technological advancement too much we will spread like a disease carrying our ways with us into the further reaches of the universe and lets face it, our universe doesn't need another Gitmo and probably has moved on way past the practices of Gitmo.
We are about to go to war again.  There are plans for a World War 4, most people don't even realize that we had World War 3 already, that was the whole point,,, to keep you asleep while it went on, to keep you doped up on paid TV personalities who give you fragmented information and at the same time shake their head yes in a manner that will cause you to agree with their garbage and then they'll shake their head no and cause you to agree with the alternative garbage, right wing or left wing, it's part of the same bird.

I hope thats enough reasons why ET's won't have anything to do with us.  It's because they are smart.  We are not ready for new and advanced technology because we have a culture of death, if ET's get involved with us, there's a chance it could spread.

Edited by nothinglizx2, 13 April 2013 - 11:54 PM.


#25    Hammerclaw

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 12:14 PM

To truly advanced and fully evolved entities beyond our solar system--if they take notice of us, at all--we are nothing more than crickets, chirping in the dark. To them, we are primitive and arrogant specks of protoplasm, puffed up with pride because our species has become adept at chipping flint. We are tiny, finite and insignificant, save to ourselves, and the universe is vast, infinite and timeless. That shriveled little man in the wheelchair is right; we should proceed with great caution. Our blue planet is a verdant oasis in a vast cosmic desert, and an ideal place, perhaps, for another species to propagate it's own kind.

Edited by hammerclaw, 15 June 2013 - 12:20 PM.

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