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why did satan get kicked out of heaven


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#766    Jor-el

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:12 PM

View Postmarkprice, on 09 July 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:


You are just doing back-flips to deny the obvious. They used feminine words to describe a feminine aspect. Any child confronted by the holy spirit would sense it to have a feminine quality so the authors of the bible presented it in that way for that exact reason.

I have been filled with the Holy Spirit on occasion, and not once have I ever felt the feminine aspect you state is there... not even a male aspect either... I just felt the extreme presence of Holiness that left me on my back. I sensed God.

And I don't do backflips, what I do is study the Hebrew and learn from those who know it.

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If that were true I would have to agree with you but all this precedes ancient Egypt/Moses/etc. by thousands of years [see India].

Does it precede ancient Mesopotamia and Sumeria?

Because that is where it originates from. As such 4000 B.C. is being conservative... India is 3500 B.C. almost 500 years later. The Vedas, which the religious texts you are indirectly referring to are of comparable age to the bible though...

The difference is that they speak of events from a human memory and as such have as much fact as myth... I don't believe it to be the case with the bible. In may ways they actually complement one another as religious works.

Edited by Jor-el, 10 July 2013 - 09:12 PM.

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#767    Etu Malku

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 10:59 PM

"The bible is a historical recounting of the history of mankind, it supersedes philosophies that are only a few thousand years old."
Hardly . . . the Christian bible is not an accountable source for history, any scholar will tell you that.

The principle of the Feminine is not the opposite of Masculine as we are so used to making comparisons of, it is exactly like how modern psychology understands it, as one of two primary anthropomorphic archetypes of the unconscious mind. In the unconscious of the male, this archetype finds expression as a feminine inner personality: anima; equivalently, in the unconscious of the female it is expressed as a masculine inner personality: animus.

This "holy spirit" thing everyone is mentioning is in Luciferian philosophy, our Higher Self, but not our most perfect Self. We refer to this as our Dæmon from the Platonic/Socratic philosophies and while it is true that someone in 'conversation' with their Dæmon is being guided much like the Abrahamic 'Guardian Angel", this higher self is only brought into our consciousness through the Arts.

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#768    markprice

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 02:16 AM

View PostJor-el, on 10 July 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

I have been filled with the Holy Spirit on occasion, and not once have I ever felt the feminine aspect you state is there... not even a male aspect either... I just felt the extreme presence of Holiness that left me on my back. I sensed God.

At the end of the day that is what matters.

Quote

And I don't do backflips, what I do is study the Hebrew and learn from those who know it.

And others who know about it: the scholarly study of the Bible in its original languages:

Condemned by Catholics and Protestants alike, Michael Servetus was arrested in Geneva and burnt at the stake as a heretic by order of the Protestant Geneva governing council.

In his first two books (De trinitatis erroribus, and Dialogues on the Trinity plus the supplementary De Iustitia Regni Christi) Servetus rejected the classical conception of the Trinity, stating that it was not based on the Bible. He argued that it arose from teachings of Greek philosophers, and he advocated a return to the simplicity of the Gospels and the teachings of the early Church Fathers that he believed pre-dated the development of Nicene trinitarianism.


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Does it precede ancient Mesopotamia and Sumeria?

Yeah, over 10,000 years ago is where some of the information can be traced; I don't remember where I read that though.

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Because that is where it originates from. As such 4000 B.C. is being conservative... India is 3500 B.C. almost 500 years later. The Vedas, which the religious texts you are indirectly referring to are of comparable age to the bible though...

Some anthropologists hypothesize that the region was settled by multiple human migrations over tens of millennia, which makes it even harder to select certain groups as being truly aboriginal.

Quote

The difference is that they speak of events from a human memory and as such have as much fact as myth... I don't believe it to be the case with the bible. In may ways they actually complement one another as religious works.

The sources of the Indian knowledge go back to Atlantis like everything else, alledgedly, or for example they know that it took 40,000 years to map the sky(including astrological aspects). But then you are getting into the realm of secret societies with unbroken transmission beyond archaeological history.

Just to sum up: I didn't know that emanationists exist before today. Something has always struck me as false about Gnosticism so I don't go there. I don't really believe emanationism literally but I have experienced emanation yet that would not make me want to study kabala. I was able to spend some time recently in the amazing library of the Philosophical Research Society but I disagree with a certain percentage of MP Hall's teachings. I do not believe there is any system I agree with entirely. What I do agree with is the theory that each system is a part of of something greater that reveals itself as you progress. I don't know how this is done but it happens all the time and just when you think you've lost the thread knowledge continues in some form. They say if you talk about it you risk breaking the thread, but I say so what, let it break and see where that takes you...and so it continues.

Edited by markprice, 11 July 2013 - 03:09 AM.

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#769    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:34 AM

View Postmarkprice, on 11 July 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

I do not believe there is any system I agree with entirely. What I do agree with is the theory that each system is a part of of something greater that reveals itself as you progress. I don't know how this is done but it happens all the time...
Exactly. Like seeing Jesus Christ (in the afterlife)... The next step...

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#770    jorge_carrillo

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 06:12 PM

Because of arrogance. Satan felt to be almost as equal to God. That is the temptation that satan puts to us, the same temptation that he fell,


#771    danielost

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:13 PM

View Postjorge_carrillo, on 11 July 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

Because of arrogance. Satan felt to be almost as equal to God. That is the temptation that satan puts to us, the same temptation that he fell,

Satan/lucifer wanted to sit above god.  But, no one can sit above god.  As for god being male or female.  He is male. But he is also married.  So maybe mom visits us.  The holy spirit is jusdt that a spirit.  He voluntered to remain a spirit to help us choose the right path.  But, if you don't listen, he will stop trying.  Physical beings can only be in one place at a time. A spiritual one can be. Every where at the same time.  God and jesus are physical beings.  The beingthat jacob wrestled with was physical. So it wasn't jesus who was spirit at the time.

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There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
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#772    danielost

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:14 PM

I believe atlantis was the name of the world before the flood.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#773    Dark_Grey

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:16 PM

View Postdanielost, on 11 July 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

As for god being male or female.  He is male. But he is also married.  So maybe mom visits us.

Since when is God married?

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#774    danielost

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:20 PM

View PostDark_Grey, on 11 July 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:



Since when is God married?

Since when was it said he wasn't.  It is a mormon belief.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#775    Dark_Grey

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:22 PM

View Postdanielost, on 11 July 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Since when was it said he wasn't.  It is a mormon belief.

That explains it.

“These International bankers and Rockefeller-Standard Oil interests control the majority of newspapers and the columns of these newspapers to club into submission or drive out of public office officials who refuse to do the bidding of the powerful corrupt cliques which compose the invisible government.”

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#776    Jor-el

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:45 PM

View Postmarkprice, on 11 July 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

At the end of the day that is what matters.

I agree... :tu:



Quote

And others who know about it: the scholarly study of the Bible in its original languages:

Condemned by Catholics and Protestants alike, Michael Servetus was arrested in Geneva and burnt at the stake as a heretic by order of the Protestant Geneva governing council.

In his first two books (De trinitatis erroribus, and Dialogues on the Trinity plus the supplementary De Iustitia Regni Christi) Servetus rejected the classical conception of the Trinity, stating that it was not based on the Bible. He argued that it arose from teachings of Greek philosophers, and he advocated a return to the simplicity of the Gospels and the teachings of the early Church Fathers that he believed pre-dated the development of Nicene trinitarianism.

I don't know his works and what they contain but I do agree with his position in that we view the trinity incorrectly, as a matter of fact we can't even honestly claim Monotheism either... What we do have is something called Binatarian monotheism, but even that is not entirely correct

Maybe the best response is Binatarian Henotheism.

Which will shock many people who may read this but is true nonetheless. Yes there is an element of the Trinity involved since we continue to have a Deity that is Father, Son and Holy Spirit... it is merely that the classical interpretation is incorrect.

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Yeah, over 10,000 years ago is where some of the information can be traced; I don't remember where I read that though.

Yes, I've heard the claim as well, the problem is that we can just as easily say 20.000 or even 30.000... without evidence it is hot air... Verifiably neither are over 4000 years old but Yahweh beats the other by 500 years or so. Although they are both based on the very same God, the God of the bible.

Quote

Some anthropologists hypothesize that the region was settled by multiple human migrations over tens of millennia, which makes it even harder to select certain groups as being truly aboriginal.

True, we can only go by the verifiable evidence. And they may all be from common stock since the ancient Sumerians were not Middle Eastern peoples... Since I do believe we are in fact all descended from Noah, then it isn't a problem for me either way.

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The sources of the Indian knowledge go back to Atlantis like everything else, alledgedly, or for example they know that it took 40,000 years to map the sky(including astrological aspects). But then you are getting into the realm of secret societies with unbroken transmission beyond archaeological history.

Atlantis is merely a name for the Antedilluvian world, before the flood... or as the Vedas put it, the previous world civilization before ours.


Quote

Just to sum up: I didn't know that emanationists exist before today. Something has always struck me as false about Gnosticism so I don't go there. I don't really believe emanationism literally but I have experienced emanation yet that would not make me want to study kabala. I was able to spend some time recently in the amazing library of the Philosophical Research Society but I disagree with a certain percentage of MP Hall's teachings. I do not believe there is any system I agree with entirely. What I do agree with is the theory that each system is a part of of something greater that reveals itself as you progress. I don't know how this is done but it happens all the time and just when you think you've lost the thread knowledge continues in some form. They say if you talk about it you risk breaking the thread, but I say so what, let it break and see where that takes you...and so it continues.

Hmmm, in my case the broken thread led to Christ....

Edited by Jor-el, 11 July 2013 - 09:46 PM.

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#777    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:31 PM

"At the end of the day that is what matters."

View PostJor-el, on 11 July 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

I agree... :tu:
What about luciferianism? They believe in "...worshiping the inner self and one’s ultimate potential, as opposed to bowing to the rules of a supernatural entity." This goes for other mystical paths -- apotheosis. Their "sense" of their "God"/Self is the total opposite of Christian doctrine.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
My Lord is not a judge but a loving Divine Being. Love is our natural state, and it also demands us to grow up. Our conscience tells us when we are not in that state of love.

#778    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:49 PM

View Postmarkprice, on 11 July 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

They say if you talk about it you risk breaking the thread, but I say so what, let it break and see where that takes you...and so it continues.
That saying is actually one of the rules of my former lineage. The reasoning for that is to surrender all "earthly" distractions because they are all illusions. "God" (not the Christian God) or Self is the only real truth. "Awakening" is part of this doctrine. Also, to talk about one's experiences could even hinder or divert other's spiritual journey since one hasn't achieve that "enlightenment." Christianity is different because we have the Bible and Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit to guide us. When you become a "born again," you automatically become a saint, and this means that you are guaranteed passage to New Earth/Heaven/Paradise because your name is already written in the Lamb's Book of Life. Unlike luciferianism and mysticism you can never become a god, like Jesus/God -- we could never be equal to our Jesus/God.

Edited by braveone2u, 11 July 2013 - 10:55 PM.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
My Lord is not a judge but a loving Divine Being. Love is our natural state, and it also demands us to grow up. Our conscience tells us when we are not in that state of love.

#779    Jor-el

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:01 PM

View Postbraveone2u, on 11 July 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

"At the end of the day that is what matters."

What about luciferianism? They believe in "...worshiping the inner self and one’s ultimate potential, as opposed to bowing to the rules of a supernatural entity." This goes for other mystical paths -- apotheosis. Their "sense" of their "God"/Self is the total opposite of Christian doctrine.

True, and I believe that is the Litmus test on whether something is from God or not... from within comes not enlightenment but self delusion.

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#780    danielost

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:14 AM

Jesus christ equals selflessness.
Lucifer equals selfishness.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.




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