84 replies to this topic

[Dredimus]

AquilaChrysaetos, on 11 December 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

Oh, I know, I'm just out to demonize you and the Republican party.

Everything I stated there was fact, something you yourselves don't deny. I'm well aware of "good ol' southern white boys" since I have members in my own family that are. If you really want the sources then I will, but why bother really if you'll just slap the label of "democratically biased" on everything. None the less, I'll post sources if you truly wish. I'm not out for a fight, I'm just stating facts, and if people don't like that then so be it. I'm used to this kind of treatment from conservatives like yourselves. I wasn't looking for any enemies, but if you wanna call me that then so be it. It's not like I haven't had any enemies before.

Here are FACTS...

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As with everything tax-related, there's no simple answer to "How much is the Obamacare penalty tax?" But here are some key points, from FactCheck.org:
And more...

• The penalty/tax will be phased in from 2014 to 2016.
  
• The minimum penalty/tax in 2016 will be $695 per person and up to 3-times that per family. After 2016, these amounts will increase at the rate of inflation.
  
• The minimum penalty/tax per person will start at $95 in 2014 (and then increase through 2016)
  
• No family will ever pay more than 3X the per-person penalty, regardless of how many people are in the family.
  
• The $695 per-person penalty is only for those who make between $9,500 and ~$37,000 per year. If you make less than ~$9.500, you're exempt. If you make more than ~$37,000, your penalty is calculated by the following formula...
  
• The penalty is 2.5% of any household income above the level at which you are required to file a tax return. That level is currently $9,500 per person and $19,000 per couple. The penalty on any income above that is 2.5%. So the penalty can get expensive quickly if you make a lot of money.
  
• However, the penalty can never be more than the cost of a "Bronze" heath insurance plan purchased through one of the state "exchanges" that will be created as part of Obamacare. The CBO estimates that these policies will cost $4,500-$5,000 per person and $12,000-$12,500 per family in 2016, with the costs rising thereafter.

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Expanding a program that one in three doctors won’t accept. Obamacare expands a broken Medicaid program that already faces a severe access problem: One out of three Medicaid doctors will not accept new Medicaid patients. If the Obama Administration has its way and every state expands Medicaid, 17 million Americans will be added to the rolls—5.6 million of whom will join the other Medicaid patients who can’t find a doctor.

• Giving Medicaid doctors a pay raise—for two years. Obamacare increases the payment rate for Medicaid primary care doctors up to Medicare payment levels in 2013 and 2014. After those two years, Medicaid doctors will face about a 22 percent payment cut.
  
• Giving more government money to low-income Americans in the exchanges than to those in Medicaid. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that every low-income individual who chooses to enroll in the new exchanges instead of Medicaid will increase federal spending by roughly $3,000 in 2022, because exchange subsidies will be more generous than the cost of coverage in Medicaid.
  
• Using Medicare money to pay for Obamacare. Medicare’s finances are in serious trouble, facing a long-term unfunded obligation of $37 trillion and a bankrupt trust fund by 2024. Despite these facts, Obamacare cuts Medicare by $716 billion and then uses that money to pay for new spending rather than putting the money back into a struggling Medicare program.
  
• Forcing religious organizations to provide birth control coverage. The Obama Administration refuses to exempt all religious employers from its mandate to provide coverage and pay for contraception, sterilization, and abortion-inducing drugs despite religious or moral objections to doing so.

All that aside.... MY personal issue with obamacare is that its the government forcing me to buy a product and if I dont buy the product I get punished with taxes or "penalties". It is not the governments place to force me into anything especially where buying a product is concerned. I happen to pay for my own medical expenses as they happen, I like my current setup and in the last 13 years, I havent had an issue with it at all.

[Stardrive]

AquilaChrysaetos, on 11 December 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

Good losers? Please, every state in the nation with a Republican in it tried to secede.

Since every state in the union has a Republican residing within it, by that logic all states have tried to secede.

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Most of these "good ol' southern white boy Republicans" are still sore about losing the civil war, much less the last election.

No, it's just that we don't agree with your ideas for a nanny state. Offering assistance for those in need is one thing, creating a nanny state is quite another.

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Actually, the democrats weren't the ones talkin', the Republicans were. We just went out and voted. That's why the polls said one thing and the actually outcome said another. We don't talk, we do.

Yeah the dems like to do and do and in the end that's usually what we end up with, an expensive pile of do-do. The concept of "if it isn't broke, don't try to fix it" isn't in thier repertoire.

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Look in the mirror buddy cause it seems to me like the sh**'s hittin' the fan.

"o little man so spic and span, where were you when it hit the fan?"  Answer: behind it.

[Stardrive]

ninjadude, on 09 December 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

https://en.wikipedia...rdable_Care_Act

how are you affected again?

We pay more for goods and services.

[ninjadude]

-Mr_Fess-, on 11 December 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

Alright well I issue you a challenge. Find out all the lies, and it has to be proven, that FOX has issued and find all the lies from CNN and the like and we will stack them together. Then you have to prove how the MSM provides as much balance as Fox. As a handicap in Fox's favor and against the MSM's favor, you will not have to use mediamatters as one of your sources because that would be anything but fair and balanced.

It's been posted here on UM many times...

Those who watched Fox News almost daily were significantly more likely than those who never watched it to believe that most economists estimate the stimulus caused job losses (8 points more likely), most economists have estimated the health care law will worsen the deficit (31 points), the economy is getting worse (26 points), most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring (30 points), the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts (14 points), their own income taxes have gone up (14 points), the auto bailout only occurred under Obama (13 points), when TARP came up for a vote most Republicans opposed it (12 points) and that it is not clear that Obama was born in the United States (31 points). The effect was also not simply a function of partisan bias, as people who voted Democratic and watched Fox News were also more likely to have such misinformation than those who did not watch it--though by a lesser margin than those who voted Republican http://www.worldpubl...id=&pnt=671&lb=

Edited by ninjadude, 13 December 2012 - 01:44 AM.

[ninjadude]

Dredimus, on 11 December 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

I happen to pay for my own medical expenses as they happen, I like my current setup and in the last 13 years, I havent had an issue with it at all.

Then you are either 1) independently wealthy >250,000 2) very young and inexperienced in the world or 3) have yet to have a major medical issue. Do you have any idea how much it costs to have a child in a hospital? Be in the hospital for just one day? I thought not. When you do, and the probability is nearly certain, please don't declare bankruptcy so that the rest of us pay for it, ok? Just lay by the side of road, as most republicans want.

Stardrive, on 11 December 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

We pay more for goods and services.

not in any significant amount. And most of those taxes don't affect most people.

Edited by ninjadude, 13 December 2012 - 01:50 AM.

[Dredimus]

ninjadude, on 13 December 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

Then you are either 1) independently wealthy >250,000 2) very young and inexperienced in the world or 3) have yet to have a major medical issue. Do you have any idea how much it costs to have a child in a hospital? Be in the hospital for just one day? I thought not. When you do, and the probability is nearly certain, please don't declare bankruptcy so that the rest of us pay for it, ok? Just lay by the side of road, as most republicans want.



not in any significant amount. And most of those taxes don't affect most people.

I find it completely hilarious that you try to answer questions you ask for me... because you know little to nothing about me which only goes to prove that you ignore 80% of what I post here... further proving my point that you dont have your own point of view, you just go with what ever the libs do. Now, on to answering (correcting) the answers you gave for me...

I am not independantly wealthy... due to rules that I may violate I will not give you an exact ammount but I will tell you that I make between 40 and 50k a year. So no... not wealthy by any stretch...

On to the next... in my marriage I had 3 children... So... theres goes that theory... and to compound on that... at the age of 9 my daughter had a 4 wheeler accident that nearly severed one of her legs, it took 11 surgeries and over 5 weeks in the hospital PLUS physical therapy to get her to where she is now able to walk today. (Shout Out To University of Alabama - Birmingham Hospital for being completely frikkin AMAZING).

Lets see... In 2006 I had E-Coli... that was 5 days in the hospital... oh, when I was discharged from the service in 2005 it was due to a medical condition... I had to recieve treatment from a specialist once I was out... that came out of my pocket... So there you have it... I am a white male, in my early to mid 30's... Ive had my share of issues... I live comfortably right now... I pay my own bills... I pay my own way... I own 2 vehicles... a modest home... I dont live above my means, I manage my money and I am Happy.... Dont assume you know something when you literally have no idea. Paying your bills is possible when you dont live above your means, thats a lesson this government should take in... I do have debt, as anyone does if they ever want to live in this world.. without a credit rating you literally cant make a major purchase in this country unless you have cash money. That being said, my debt is under control... I dont have to borrow money from a communist country across the ocean to survive. I dont sweat my payments at any point in time... ive planned for the future and ive kept my past in check...



Edit to say: Please refrain from trying to dip yourself into my personal life again. If you cant verify something as factual, stop spewing it. Over the last year it has gotten more and more annoying to hear you piddle your pooh over and over again while you wear your blinders and whine about everything

Edited by Dredimus, 13 December 2012 - 02:15 AM.

[Stardrive]

Forced to participate in Obamacare or else face ballon fines and penalties. I like ultimatums, don't you?

[Stardrive]

ninjadude, on 13 December 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

Then you are either 1) independently wealthy >250,000 2) very young and inexperienced in the world or 3) have yet to have a major medical issue. Do you have any idea how much it costs to have a child in a hospital? Be in the hospital for just one day? I thought not. When you do, and the probability is nearly certain, please don't declare bankruptcy so that the rest of us pay for it, ok? Just lay by the side of road, as most republicans want.

Yep I can see the problem clearly now. Really Ninja? I don't recall ever paying for someone else's hospital bill because they couldn't pay and filed bankruptcy. Explain that to me.

[ninjadude]

Dredimus, on 13 December 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

On to the next... in my marriage I had 3 children... So... theres goes that theory... and to compound on that... at the age of 9 my daughter had a 4 wheeler accident that nearly severed one of her legs, it took 11 surgeries and over 5 weeks in the hospital PLUS physical therapy to get her to where she is now able to walk today. (Shout Out To University of Alabama - Birmingham Hospital for being completely frikkin AMAZING).

Lets see... In 2006 I had E-Coli... that was 5 days in the hospital... oh, when I was discharged from the service in 2005 it was due to a medical condition... I had to recieve treatment from a specialist once I was out... that came out of my pocket... So there you have it... I am a white male, in my early to mid 30's... Ive had my share of issues... I live comfortably right now... I pay my own bills... I pay my own way...

I'm sorry maybe in Alabama, healthcare is repressed (I'll repress the urge to denigrate the South). The cost of a one day hospital stay can be 13000-25000 dollars in the midwest, mountains, west and east coast regions. And you paid all of that on you own making 40-50K per year? On what planet? Many hospitals will not even take you if you don't have insurance. You'd be bankrupt on day 1. So what are we talking about here? Did the hospitals make a deal to fund you for 100 years? Do you get veteran benefits? pay your own way. in lala land.

[ninjadude]

Stardrive, on 13 December 2012 - 02:14 AM, said:

Forced to participate in Obamacare or else face ballon fines and penalties. I like ultimatums, don't you?

Would you rather have something valuable or waste your money?

[ninjadude]

Stardrive, on 13 December 2012 - 02:23 AM, said:

I don't recall ever paying for someone else's hospital bill because they couldn't pay and filed bankruptcy. Explain that to me.

I'll explain by asking what you think happens to all of a persons unpaid bills when someone files bankruptcy.

[F3SS]

ninjadude, on 13 December 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

Would you rather have something valuable or waste your money?

Wouldn't you rather be able to decide what is and what isn't valuable to you? Even if it's your health?

[Dredimus]

ninjadude, on 13 December 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

I'm sorry maybe in Alabama, healthcare is repressed (I'll repress the urge to denigrate the South). The cost of a one day hospital stay can be 13000-25000 dollars in the midwest, mountains, west and east coast regions. And you paid all of that on you own making 40-50K per year? On what planet? Many hospitals will not even take you if you don't have insurance. You'd be bankrupt on day 1. So what are we talking about here? Did the hospitals make a deal to fund you for 100 years? Do you get veteran benefits? pay your own way. in lala land.

There you go assuming again.... my daughters accident... after all surgeries and therapy Was around 400k. Minus 35k because the owner of the 4wheeler and property wanted to help. It took a chunk of my savings to pay down... it also meant a bit over overtime and a small loan to take care of..... and when I had to see a specialist I Was in Boise Idaho. St .Joseph's. I'm sorry that you... like our government... lack the knack for being responsible for yourself and your money.

[Dredimus]

ninjadude, on 13 December 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

I'll explain by asking what you think happens to all of a persons unpaid bills when someone files bankruptcy.

Do you honestly think that your bills get passed on to the public when you file bankruptcy? Here, like everything else, we will break that down for you aswell...

First, when you file bankruptcy, all of your debt is frozen, what goes on next really depends on what type of bankruptcy you are filing :

Chapter 7 Bankruptcy : Used to be "all is forgiven" That is not the case anymore. Bank Loans, Credit Card Debt, Any money owed to the government and Student loans have to be paid back. And in many cases, if you have a credit card that you have made major purchases on, the credit company will reposes those purchases and its the same with auto loans.

Chapter 13 Bankruptcy: This is more of a type of loan. You consolidate your debt and usually have to pay off the core within 5 years. The same reposession situations apply as in a chapter 7.

Now, as far as medical is concerned, it works the same as above depending on which type you file. However, a great portion of the time, when a hospital doesnt collect directly from you or insurance, they will report it to a credit agency... and after a set ammount of time depending on their policy they will sell it to a credit collector usually for about 60% of what is owed, the rest they right off. You may not know this, but your medical charges are usually negotiable. A hospital would rather negotiate with you than turn it into a court case that they know would benefit neither party and could drag on for years... this applies especially to those that live on government assistance because if you are on Government assistance or SS, they cant garnish your income, even after its deposited into your bank account.


So, to sum it up... No, we dont pay other peoples medical bills when they file for bankruptcy... its just another one of your delusions.

[Dredimus]

-Mr_Fess-, on 13 December 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

Wouldn't you rather be able to decide what is and what isn't valuable to you? Even if it's your health?

Sir Fess, I must agree with this statement completely, at its roots anyway... What I do in my life, what I purchase and dont purchase... where I go and dont go... should be my decision. I dont need the government telling me exactly how to spend my money or what to spend it on. I do believe that this mandatory insurance issue could turn into something else entirely... now that the gov knows they have the go ahead what is to stop them from forcing us to purchase anything? What if the gov deems it necessary that every home have a state of the art filtration system because it cuts down on air polutants by .30% but the only hitch is that system cost 85k and it has to come out of YOUR pockets... unless you are on government assistance of course, then it has to come out of everyone elses pockets.... Where do we draw the line?