New expedition to find Tasmanian Tiger

[Yowie]

Hi all

I saw this interview on the Australian Today Show this morning. Australian investigator Murray McAllister has planned another expedition in October to investigate some areas in Tasmania where there are some promising sightings of the Thylacine. He claims around 20 personal sightings of the animal since his investigations began in 1998.

The interview can be found on the following link

http://today.ninemsn...videoindex.aspx

For those not familiar with modern sightings here in Australia, sightings have not been limited to just Tasmania with claims from Victoria, New South Wales, and right up to the rainforests of North Queensland. Fossil evidence shows the Thylacine did once populate the mainland and there are even Aboriginal cave paintings in the Northern Territory that depict the animal.

It was believed that Aboriginal hunting pressure and competition with the Dingo caused its presumed mainland extinction around 3500 years ago. There is some opposition to this theory as the Thylacine (Tasmanian population) was larger than the Dingo and assumed to have not suffered in competition with the dog. Interestingly though, fossil evidence of mainland specimens show a much smaller animal with some Thylacine females measuring approximately the same size as a fox.

[Old Man Waffles]

yay i hope they can find it, breed it, and make the population grow. its sad how their extinct

[+DieChecker]

I thought they were just going to clone the Tazi Tiger and get some that way.

I do hope that the expidition finds something. I've read of encounters on the mainland that sound very tigerish.

[Imaginarynumber1]

I thought they were just going to clone the Tazi Tiger and get some that way.

That would be nice, but I would have to think that any DNA they would have or could obtain would be fragmented and not contain the entire Thylacine genome. Not to mention the fact that there really isn't a suitable to host womb to grow one in. Maybe in a few more decade cloning techniques will have improved and maybe we may have somehow found an intact Thylacine genome, but until then, I'm afraid it's wishful thinking.

[Orcseeker]

I hope they find something, I've watched a few documentaries with some reliable witnesses claiming they've seen one

[S2F]

He claims around 20 personal sightings of the animal since his investigations began in 1998.

And not one decent photograph of one? You'd think that after so many sightings that this person would have something a little more solid for evidence.

[Night Walker]

Murray McAllister has exclussive footage of a recent sighting of the Tasmanian Tiger (April 2009). This is 8 seconds from almost 9 minutes of footage:

Does that qualify as a thylacine sighting?

[S2F]

Murray McAllister has exclussive footage of a recent sighting of the Tasmanian Tiger (April 2009). This is 8 seconds from almost 9 minutes of footage:

*snipped vid

Does that qualify as a thylacine sighting?

Hey NW, thanks for sharing that, I hadn't seen it before. It does seem like a good bit of evidence but I'm not knowledgeable enough in the fauna of the region to say one way or another if it's a Thylacine. Could there be other animals that share the traits seen in the vid? Size, color,gait, etc. etc. ?

[Yowie]

Does that qualify as a thylacine sighting?

Too far away, grainy footage. Completely inconclusive. I guess time will tell if this guy can come through with the goods!

[Night Walker]

Tasmanian Tiger Back On the Prowl? Not So Fast

Brett Israel

Date: 17 November 2010 Time: 09:21 AM ET

Scientists are unconvinced by the video, which originally surfaced last year.

"In my opinion, the video clearly shows a red fox running across the paddock, not a thylacine," said Jeremy Austin, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Adelaide in South Australia.

Other scientists agree. The animal's gait gives it away, said Cameron Campbell of the Thylacine Museum, a website dedicated to Tasmanian tigers. Campbell said in an email that he and his fellow thylacine researchers all agree that the animal shown in the video is certainly a red fox (Vulpes vulpes), a species introduced to Australia from Europe in the mid-1800s. Since then, red foxes have spread across the continent.

Austin said the man who shot the video, Murray McAllister, sent him DNA samples of the supposed thylacine for testing. The samples tested positive for red fox.

[Yowie]

Hey NW, thanks for sharing that, I hadn't seen it before. It does seem like a good bit of evidence but I'm not knowledgeable enough in the fauna of the region to say one way or another if it's a Thylacine. Could there be other animals that share the traits seen in the vid? Size, color,gait, etc. etc. ?

I think NW's short statement is more directed at the lack of quality and evidence provided by the video. Which is true. It's a terrible video that proves nothing, though the guy claims sightings and is throwing his time and money into the search so cheers to him.

[Night Walker]

... according to McAllister's website he has seen the tiger many times, not just in Tasmania but also on the Australian mainland. McAllister manages to fit in his tiger expeditions around his professional life as a PE teacher at a Secondary College in Melbourne.

http://www.coolearth...utube-1544.html

[Yowie]

... according to McAllister's website he has seen the tiger many times, not just in Tasmania but also on the Australian mainland. McAllister manages to fit in his tiger expeditions around his professional life as a PE teacher at a Secondary College in Melbourne.

http://www.coolearth...utube-1544.html

Forgive me if I interpret this the wrong way, but is it true to say that your use of highlighting technique caries an undertone of stultification towards the above statement?

For those not familiar with claims of Thylacine sightings in Australia, mainland sightings are the most disputed by the Boffins. Often claims arise in areas of rainforest or thick scrub environments which are quickly discredited by scientists that say that the Thylacine was an animal of open plains and would have certainly been seen if it still existed. We do know for sure that they existed on the mainland from fossil evidence, with the Tasmanian population surviving thanks to geographical isolation from the Dingo. But who knows what the characteristics of the mainland Thylacine were? No one has ever had a chance to study them or their ecological niche? Convergent evolution allowed the Thylacine to exclusively occupy the same ecological niche as the dog here in Australia, and in the rest of the world the dog managed to adapt to nearly every environmental niche on the planet. Is it really stretching the limit of science for a previously undetected species to crawl out of some of our wildest wilderness environments? If there are very small remnant populations still out there, and excluding the chance that one pioneering specimen decides to commit suicide on one of our highways for all to discover, then chances are we may never find them if we are not looking. Scientists, School teachers, Kung fu masters...whoever you are, cheers to you for getting out there and making the effort.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Yowie

[Myles]

This is good news. Of all the creatures discussed on the forum, the thylacine is the most likely to exist (still exist).

[Night Walker]

Forgive me if I interpret this the wrong way, but is it true to say that your use of highlighting technique caries an undertone of stultification towards the above statement?

No.

stultification - derision of someone or something as foolish or absurd or inconsistent. http://www.thefreedi.../Stultification

Not derision. Simply pointing out another potential example of confirmation bias in action. Believing is Seeing in the world of cryptozoology and McAllister's multiple sighting claims of a mainland thylacine highlight that bias and diminish the validity of his Tasmanian thylacine sightings. Enthusiasm for the cause can be both a blessing and a curse...

[Yowie]

No.

stultification - derision of someone or something as foolish or absurd or inconsistent. http://www.thefreedi.../Stultification

Not derision. Simply pointing out another potential example of confirmation bias in action. Believing is Seeing in the world of cryptozoology and McAllister's multiple sighting claims of a mainland thylacine highlight that bias and diminish the validity of his Tasmanian thylacine sightings. Enthusiasm for the cause can be both a blessing and a curse...

But if you make the statement that Mainland sightings highlight a bias and diminish the validity of the Tasmanian sightings, then it appears that you consider mainland evidence absurd or ambiguous at the best, which makes my original statement true. Are you basing the "confirmation bias" statement soley at Murray McAllister or everyone else who has claimed a mainland sighting? Are you claiming that he has never made a mainland Thylacine sighting himself? (which could be true), or that all mainland thylacine sightings are absurd and highlight a bias towards the believe in the continued existence of the species in Tasmania? How is the evidence towards a mainland sighting comparied to a Tasmanian sighting any more ambiguous when neither party has any real tangible evidence yet? Your choice of highlighting technique towards mainland sightings didn't appear to highlight a simple example of comfirmation bias in action to me, but more like stultification in action.

[Ashotep]

I wish they could find one, that would be great. Especially since they are afraid the Devil may go extinct because of that contagious cancer.

[Night Walker]

But if you make the statement that Mainland sightings highlight a bias and diminish the validity of the Tasmanian sightings, then it appears that you consider mainland evidence absurd or ambiguous at the best, which makes my original statement true. Are you basing the "confirmation bias" statement soley at Murray McAllister or everyone else who has claimed a mainland sighting? Are you claiming that he has never made a mainland Thylacine sighting himself? (which could be true), or that all mainland thylacine sightings are absurd and highlight a bias towards the believe in the continued existence of the species in Tasmania? How is the evidence towards a mainland sighting comparied to a Tasmanian sighting any more ambiguous when neither party has any real tangible evidence yet? Your choice of highlighting technique towards mainland sightings didn't appear to highlight a simple example of comfirmation bias in action to me, but more like stultification in action.

Claiming to have sighted the thylacine 200 times whilst specifically searching for it yet with no confirmatory evidence other than misidentifications is virtually the definition of confirmation bias, is it not?

If the thylacine has avoided extinction then it would have done so in Tasmania – its last known habitat. There is no evidence of a mainland thylacine for thousands of years since the introduction of the dingo. If McAllister is mistaken by numerous mainland sightings then it is likely that he is making the same mistakes in Tasmania.

I still don’t see what derision (contemptuous ridicule or mockery) has to do with questioning the validity of his claims…

[+DieChecker]

Tasmanian Tiger Back On the Prowl? Not So Fast

Brett Israel

Date: 17 November 2010 Time: 09:21 AM ET

Scientists are unconvinced by the video, which originally surfaced last year.

"In my opinion, the video clearly shows a red fox running across the paddock, not a thylacine," said Jeremy Austin, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Adelaide in South Australia.

Other scientists agree. The animal's gait gives it away, said Cameron Campbell of the Thylacine Museum, a website dedicated to Tasmanian tigers. Campbell said in an email that he and his fellow thylacine researchers all agree that the animal shown in the video is certainly a red fox (Vulpes vulpes), a species introduced to Australia from Europe in the mid-1800s. Since then, red foxes have spread across the continent.

Austin said the man who shot the video, Murray McAllister, sent him DNA samples of the supposed thylacine for testing. The samples tested positive for red fox.

i was going to say it very much looked like a fox, rather then a taz tiger.

[Myles]

Claiming to have sighted the thylacine 200 times whilst specifically searching for it yet with no confirmatory evidence other than misidentifications is virtually the definition of confirmation bias, is it not?

If the thylacine has avoided extinction then it would have done so in Tasmania – its last known habitat. There is no evidence of a mainland thylacine for thousands of years since the introduction of the dingo. If McAllister is mistaken by numerous mainland sightings then it is likely that he is making the same mistakes in Tasmania.

I still don’t see what derision (contemptuous ridicule or mockery) has to do with questioning the validity of his claims…

However, the odds of it's existance is far greater than that of bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster or a giant flying bird.

[+DieChecker]

I think the chance of the tazmanian tiger still running around is better then zero. I just looked over a bunch of youtube videos that supposedly show thylicines, but most appear to be dogs, or foxes, or edited hoaxes.

[psyche101]

Forgive me if I interpret this the wrong way, but is it true to say that your use of highlighting technique caries an undertone of stultification towards the above statement?

For those not familiar with claims of Thylacine sightings in Australia, mainland sightings are the most disputed by the Boffins. Often claims arise in areas of rainforest or thick scrub environments which are quickly discredited by scientists that say that the Thylacine was an animal of open plains and would have certainly been seen if it still existed. We do know for sure that they existed on the mainland from fossil evidence, with the Tasmanian population surviving thanks to geographical isolation from the Dingo. But who knows what the characteristics of the mainland Thylacine were? No one has ever had a chance to study them or their ecological niche? Convergent evolution allowed the Thylacine to exclusively occupy the same ecological niche as the dog here in Australia, and in the rest of the world the dog managed to adapt to nearly every environmental niche on the planet. Is it really stretching the limit of science for a previously undetected species to crawl out of some of our wildest wilderness environments? If there are very small remnant populations still out there, and excluding the chance that one pioneering specimen decides to commit suicide on one of our highways for all to discover, then chances are we may never find them if we are not looking. Scientists, School teachers, Kung fu masters...whoever you are, cheers to you for getting out there and making the effort.

Well yes, I would say it is stretching all limits. Better people and larger groups have scoured Tasmania for years on end with absolutely no indication of survival. If the Thylacine failed to survive in Tassie, why on earth would it be in a place where it went extinct centuries before? There were at least 7 types of Thylacine on the Mainland, why is the Tassie version the one depiction we keep seeing? I feel there is little doubt that todays "sightings" are modeled on Benjamin, and for some inane reason, people hoax sightings, heck, one clown put up a close up of a caterpillar and said it was a Thylacine. So people are going to be wary of fantastic claims. Like 200 sightings. If all we have to go on is the lesser qualities of people, then hope is gone. It is nice to think a pocket of Thylacines managed to hide out in Tassie, but to date, the majority evidence is against that.

Edited May 16, 2012 by psyche101

[psyche101]

I think the chance of the tazmanian tiger still running around is better then zero. I just looked over a bunch of youtube videos that supposedly show thylicines, but most appear to be dogs, or foxes, or edited hoaxes.

I hope it exists, the best case of continued survival is the recollection of David Fleay when he trapped one in the mid fifties, well past the extinction date. But it has been a long time between drinks.

Edited May 16, 2012 by psyche101

[spartan71]

Hi guys I'm new here.

I've been hoping that the Tasmanian Tiger still exists for most of my 40 years. So when i see expeditions and 'evidence' like this I'm instantly interested.

When I was doing some private research and toying with the idea of a personal expedition in the future I came across these claims about mainlain sightings....my first inclination was 'what a croc', as I believe that it would have been impossible for the animal to survive unnoticed for all this time in mainland Australia.

I then started looking at some of the claims - and discovered two reasons that Tigers may be on mainland Australia - one plausible - one laughable.

1. Apparently - (the start of any good story) a number of mating pairs of tigers were reintroduced during the time around our immediately after WW1, with the view that they would help control the rabbit population.

2. The CSIRO has a secret program to breed tigers, based on specimans found in Tasmanian, brought to the mainland for breeding purposes. The animals that have been seen have some how escaped from this program.

Just putting it out there....I think the video is of a red fox btw as the scientist suggest.

Having been to Tasmania, in the some of the spots where the tiger had been sited - ones where a lot of tourists go e.g., lake st clair....you could have a tiger 5m off some of the uber popular walking tracks and never see them..

interestingly - every born and bread tasmainian I spoke to know someone who swears to have seen one.

[psyche101]

Hi guys I'm new here.

I've been hoping that the Tasmanian Tiger still exists for most of my 40 years. So when i see expeditions and 'evidence' like this I'm instantly interested.

When I was doing some private research and toying with the idea of a personal expedition in the future I came across these claims about mainlain sightings....my first inclination was 'what a croc', as I believe that it would have been impossible for the animal to survive unnoticed for all this time in mainland Australia.

I then started looking at some of the claims - and discovered two reasons that Tigers may be on mainland Australia - one plausible - one laughable.

1. Apparently - (the start of any good story) a number of mating pairs of tigers were reintroduced during the time around our immediately after WW1, with the view that they would help control the rabbit population.

2. The CSIRO has a secret program to breed tigers, based on specimans found in Tasmanian, brought to the mainland for breeding purposes. The animals that have been seen have some how escaped from this program.

Just putting it out there....I think the video is of a red fox btw as the scientist suggest.

Having been to Tasmania, in the some of the spots where the tiger had been sited - ones where a lot of tourists go e.g., lake st clair....you could have a tiger 5m off some of the uber popular walking tracks and never see them..

interestingly - every born and bread tasmainian I spoke to know someone who swears to have seen one.

Born and bread? Like this Inbread cat?

LOL! Sorry, could not help myself!! All in good fun!

*bad psyche slaps own wrist*

I do not know, there are quite a few stories of populations being dumped and left alone, one even in New Zealand from memory. The CSIRO ended up introducing myxamotosis to control the Rabbits, and as biological agents have been used in the past, I do not understand why a benign breeding program would remain covert to this day.

My sister lived in Tassie for some time, she worked at the fisheries and then the Comalco plant. She and her husband never claimed to have seen a Tiger, but they had seen Devils. I only know about a dozen people from Tassie, but I do not know one that says the Tiger is extant.

The government spent about 5 years with a large number of people looking for the Tiger in the 70's they came up empty handed. Not what anyone wanted to hear, even so, I guess one can hope every person to date has missed something. I completely believe that they existed into the fifties at least, but not much reliable news since then.

Edited May 16, 2012 by psyche101