and you still haven't answered my earlier question, so i'll re-phrase, how long do formed aerial plasmas last i.e. maximum duration according to you?
Of a sample of 130 cases of ball lightning observed since 1986, none of the plasmas lasted much longer than 10-15 seconds and many even less than that. They explain very few UFO reports for that reason. It would be almost impossible to confuse this with the kind of UFO cases I posted on here.
"The very short duration of ball lightning reflects its instability. In 34 % of the reported cases, the objects were only visible 1-3 seconds; 24% of the reports speak of a permanence of 3-5 seconds, and 19.5 % of 5-10 seconds."
Upper atmosphere plasmas look like these, although these are also short-duration events, like ball lighting. It's easy to say these are the same things as UFOs, but there's not much proof for this. It's like comparing apples and oranges.
As far as I'm concerned, it's up to mcrom901 to explain to me specifically which of the UFO reports I've posted on here can be explained as ball lightning or upper atmospheric plasmas, and why.
TheMacGuffin, on 24 November 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:
Or it looks like this--again, very short duration.
Is that supposed to be ball lightning?
Sure just looks like fireworks to me.
At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan
TheMacGuffin, on 24 November 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:
Of a sample of 130 cases of ball lightning observed since 1986, none of the plasmas lasted much longer than 10-15 seconds and many even less than that. They explain very few UFO reports for that reason. It would be almost impossible to confuse this with the kind of UFO cases I posted on here.
"The very short duration of ball lightning reflects its instability. In 34 % of the reported cases, the objects were only visible 1-3 seconds; 24% of the reports speak of a permanence of 3-5 seconds, and 19.5 % of 5-10 seconds."
About 70% of these ball lightning cases are reported in the summer months as well.
Ball lighting is typically short lived, yes, but it is hardly the only kind of plasma associated with UAP. Plasmas can range from very small to very large, from no motion to high speed, from white lights, to colored lights, to metallic looking. This is a very versatile phenomena, and durations range from very short to considerably long. Take a look at some of the accounts from Hessdalen for example.
Date: 07.09.2010 Time: 08:55 P.M. Place: Hessdalen Observers: Jan Moen, Lars Borren and Bjørn Tamlag
The observers where located in the hillside above the common house, when a strong rectangular shaped light light was seen in the north. It has different colours, most yellow and red. The light is a little big strionger at the right side. It is standing still. After about 7 to 8 minutes, it suddenly disappear up to the right (towards east). Ref. Jan Moen.
Date: 12.01.2010 Time: in the night Place: Hessdalen Observer: Kjetil Folde and Jannika Grimbe
During the night between the 11. and 12. of January did Jannika and Kjetil see a big light outside their bedroom. In binoculars it looked like a big Christmas tree in different colours, most blue and green. The phenomenon moved extremely slowly toward the north west. It burned out after 1 to 2 hours. Ref. Kjetil Folde.
Date: 27.11.2006 Time: Between 05:15 and 05:45 A.M. (UTC: 04:15 and 04:45) Place: Singsås, 28 km northwest of Hessdalen Observer: Eli Sesseng, – secretary at the church office in Ålen
Eli Sesseng tell: The light was just above the Tågå Mountain – a mountain between Budal and Singsås. My husband and I observed it through our bed room window. Our house is almost straight east of the Tågå Mountain across the valley. It was a huge moving light pulsating. Suddenly after approximately five minutes it started at a very high speed down the mountain side to the forest. It was colorless like an ordinary car light. We could see it towards the forests. I compared the size with the houses at the Mørseth farms which are just south of the sighting site. And it was much larger than the barns and main houses.
It stopped and I went to our study and picked up the binoculars and looked at it. Than it started to act like crazy – it zigzagged up the mountain side again almost at the same path and speed as it moved down and disappeared behind the top of the mountain. Now the colors were red, white and yellow. After approximately another five minutes it turned up again above the top. It hovered down almost to the ground where it stopped for a while. Suddenly it put on a very strong light and we could see the snow shining in the light. I still looked at it through the binoculars and in a split second “it turned off” the light without moving and everything became dark.
I also was outside on the deck listening for any sounds but there were none. When I looked at the clock I realized I have seen it for about half an hour. I was not afraid, only very exited to be one to see this phenomenon. Locations (Google Earth):
Eli Sesseng’s house:
62°58'8.43'' N - 10°43'15.13'' E
Mountain side:
62°54'5.84'' N - 10°38'14.72'' E Distance: Approx: 7-9 kilometers
Distance from VistaPoint: approx. 28 kilometers to the North West.
VistaPoint: 62°50'18.90''
JPG-attachments: Sites. Shows different locations using Google Earth LightPath: Photo of the mountain side with drawn path seen from the living room.
There are many other examples as well, including photos and videos. One of my favorite videos here:
Research and analysis projects like those at Hessdalen didn't start until the late 70s and early 80s, and we still have an awful lot to learn about them. Relying on studies done from the 40s, 50s, and 60s which supposedly "ruled out" the possibilities of plasmas is simply short sighted. As new information comes to light we should begin to expand upon the conclusions reached in those earlier studies.
This isn't to say that any given sighting from antiquity must be plasmas, but rather that any studies from those times ruling out this possibility were done from positions of relative ignorance and therefore not as conclusive as some may think.
TheMacGuffin, on 24 November 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:
These were UAPs, as anyone can see, and were sometimes even called that at the time, but they certainly weren't the same kind you're thinking of. LOL Not even close.
you're the one who's claiming what they cannot be... i'm simply questioning that premise i.e. whether atmospheric plasma formations can definitely be ruled out or not... so, it's you who needs to close in to the facts...
TheMacGuffin, on 24 November 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:
Of a sample of 130 cases of ball lightning observed since 1986, none of the plasmas lasted much longer than 10-15 seconds and many even less than that.
the question wasn't about "ball lightning" but about the duration of aerial plasmas in general...
TheMacGuffin, on 24 November 2012 - 04:48 AM, said:
As far as I'm concerned, it's up to mcrom901 to explain to me specifically which of the UFO reports I've posted on here can be explained as ball lightning or upper atmospheric plasmas, and why.
*snipped*
as i have mentioned earlier, nobody can definitely claim what those objects might have been, the data is simply insufficient.... however that doesn't mean that natural phenomenon can definitely be ruled out... those who think otherwise are simply grasping at straws....
you seem to downplay the involvement of plasmas based on your understanding that they're short lived... but did you pay any attention to ls' comments last time you made that same claim??
The lights could be split in three groups: - 1. Small and strong white or blue flashes, which could show up everywhere in the sky. - 2. Yellow or yellow-white lights. These lights have very often been seen in the valley, just over the roof of the houses, or even down on the ground. They could be stationary for more than an hour, move slowly around in the valley, and sometimes show large accelerations and speeds. They could also be higher up in the sky. Mostly they moved on a north/south course.
- 3. Several lights together with a fixed distance from each other. Mostly it was two yellow or white lights with a red in front. Many people talked about "The object", when they saw this type of light. These lights could move slowly around the top of the mountains. The direction of "travelling" was mostly on a north/south course.
you're the one who's claiming what they cannot be... i'm simply questioning that premise i.e. whether atmospheric plasma formations can definitely be ruled out or not... so, it's you who needs to close in to the facts...
Since you will keep joking around as ling as I continue to humor you, let me ask thus another way. What makes you think that all these UFO sightings I posted here are plasmas, ball lightning or UAPs?
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mcrom901, on 24 November 2012 - 03:58 AM, said:
