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Having bad experience in Astral travel

astral projection dreaming

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#31    White Crane Feather

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:09 PM

View PostKazahel, on 20 March 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:



Just quickly I saw a mountain when in the clouds, then at the top of that was the city. But how does that differ from pondering about the pyramids and then dreaming/astral projecting you are there? If you think that was projecting I still don't understand how you think its different.



Yes lucid you are aware but you are also aware in an obe. So they are the same in that regard. And I wouldn't say the quality is much different at all. I've done it many times(well had that typical obe experience) and I find the quality the same. The only difference I tend to find is that its generally darker when moving around my house because the lights are off. But that doesn't mean its not my mind creating that scene(how would anyone know for sure?). So the only thing that people use to separate them is the sensation of leaving the body, seeing the body and being in your house. And all of this the mind can create. The vibrations and sounds I think are just because your body is numb from being close to sleep(so drifting into dreaming).

I noticed you typed 'mostly' in regards to nothing happening during astral when sitting on a sofa, so anotherwords sometimes something does happen(so I'm not sure how you can use that as a way to say its different). Also I'm not sure what you mean exactly where you say you have never had a dream(lucid or not) where you are left to your own devices. Left to your own devices means.. " If someone is left to their own devices, they are not controlled and can do what they want."
Read more at http://www.usingengl...etyGU71Ajj81.99

And lucid dreaming is exactly being left to your own devices. You are not controlled and can do whatever you want. And you cant use an environment(so the bedroom) as a way to say one is not scenario driven. If someone is expecting to leave the body then the mind can easily create that 'experience' especially if someone has read about what the experience is supposed to feel like.
Yes by mostly I mean there are times during OBEs that I am pulled or called, sometimes but not always there is a visitor.

By "left to my own devices" I don't mean just lucidity. I mean not involved in some scenerio. Dreams, for me, even lucid ones, always carry a story.  I'm a zombie fighter, a dragon is in a storm after us, or some other plotline etc etc. To me these are clearly not OBEs lucid or not. Mental mechanations Mabey, training perhaps.. Never in a dream am I just there and can walk down the street or just sit on the grass. Of course some OBEs something does happen but it's not like a plot driven story.

Vibrations and noises. Vibrations, again for me, are not simply going numb. They can be powerful waves of sensation ( energy?) pulsing through the body. I'm not sure how that can be related to going numb. Even in the milder forms it's a deep vibration in my chest. Nothing like novacaine or sitting on your arm to long.

The "real time world" is probably some sort of shadow world mirroring this one. I have seen it change enough ( though it could just be me) to know that it's not exactly this one, but at the same time I have had enough verifying experiences to realize there is a solid connection.

Some people want to call everything happening that is not physical a dream or hallucination. I can't do that. For me OBEs do not follow the pattern of dreams. There is a clear difference.

Yes the mind can create a "dream" where one leaves the body. But I have had enough people come to me with spontaneous OBEs that have never even considered the possibility or done any real reading on the subject. I was one of them. Then there are the myriad of problems people encounter. Getting their head stuck in while their body floats out, one leg is still stuck in or the hip won't separate. These are not always people trying to do this, some are just people who have the experience and jump online to find out what the hell is happening and inevitably end up finding us here on UM.  There is a commonality to these experiences outside of reading or studying about them that simply cannot be defined as suggestion. I have seen way to much to consider that possibility. Possibly a shared quirk of conciousness because we are all humans with similar brains, but even that is hard to swollow given its pointedly out of body theme. I mean honestly why would some random mom frantically jump on the internet because she felt like her body floated out but her head got stuck in and she has never heard of such a thing, thereby joining the ranks of many others. Dream... Mabey  ❔❔❔❔❔maby aliens 👽

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#32    Kazahel

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 05:12 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 20 March 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

By "left to my own devices" I don't mean just lucidity. I mean not involved in some scenerio. Dreams, for me, even lucid ones, always carry a story.  I'm a zombie fighter, a dragon is in a storm after us, or some other plotline etc etc. To me these are clearly not OBEs lucid or not. Mental mechanations Mabey, training perhaps.. Never in a dream am I just there and can walk down the street or just sit on the grass. Of course some OBEs something does happen but it's not like a plot driven story.

Well in my dreams I can just walk down the street. And I can do that in a lucid dream with no major plot lines occurring(they are usually the ones I don't bother to write down at all). And I think many people would experience this. So I might just walk down the street and walk through a wall for fun but I wouldn't call that a plotline or a plot driven story. And so I wouldn't use that as a way to say its an OBE and separate from dreaming. If you like next time I dream I'll do absolutely nothing, I'll just stand there. It will feel like a bit of a waste but if that makes it an obe then I might as well. lol(then I can say I had a true obe?)

View PostSeeker79, on 20 March 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Vibrations and noises. Vibrations, again for me, are not simply going numb. They can be powerful waves of sensation ( energy?) pulsing through the body. I'm not sure how that can be related to going numb. Even in the milder forms it's a deep vibration in my chest. Nothing like novacaine or sitting on your arm to long.

Well I liken it to being numb. And not everyone experiences the vibrations and noises. With me I can understand how people would call them vibrations but for me they were not strong enough to give it that word. I would call it numb because I know my body is asleep and that's when I've gone 'out of body'. Or had that typical out of body experience.

View PostSeeker79, on 20 March 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

The "real time world" is probably some sort of shadow world mirroring this one. I have seen it change enough ( though it could just be me) to know that it's not exactly this one, but at the same time I have had enough verifying experiences to realize there is a solid connection.

And like I said before I've had enough experiences with precog dreaming and shared dreaming to believe there is a connection with more than just the mind of the dreamer.

View PostSeeker79, on 20 March 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

For me OBEs do not follow the pattern of dreams. There is a clear difference.

Not to lucid dreaming there isn't. And the only 'difference' people use is the feel of leaving the body or seeing it.

View PostSeeker79, on 20 March 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Yes the mind can create a "dream" where one leaves the body.

Ah but how do you truly tell the difference?....  Having a lack of plot lines doesn't count because people can have dreams that don't have much of a story. And not everyone feels vibrations and hears noises, the same as not everyone sees the silver cord.


View PostSeeker79, on 20 March 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

But I have had enough people come to me with spontaneous OBEs that have never even considered the possibility or done any real reading on the subject. I was one of them. Then there are the myriad of problems people encounter. Getting their head stuck in while their body floats out, one leg is still stuck in or the hip won't separate. These are not always people trying to do this, some are just people who have the experience and jump online to find out what the hell is happening and inevitably end up finding us here on UM.  There is a commonality to these experiences outside of reading or studying about them that simply cannot be defined as suggestion. I have seen way to much to consider that possibility. Possibly a shared quirk of conciousness because we are all humans with similar brains, but even that is hard to swollow given its pointedly out of body theme.

But this still doesn't mean its a separate experience from dreaming. And I got stuck a few weeks ago(its in the weird dreams thread). It was an odd experience but I still cant know for sure it had nothing to do with dreaming.

View PostSeeker79, on 20 March 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

I mean honestly why would some random mom frantically jump on the internet because she felt like her body floated out but her head got stuck in and she has never heard of such a thing, thereby joining the ranks of many others. Dream... Mabey  ❔❔❔❔❔maby aliens ��

I doubt most people haven't heard of it by now. And I think they frantically get online to share what they feel is a different experience but that doesn't actually make it a separate experience from any other dream experience.

Edited by Kazahel, 20 March 2013 - 05:17 PM.


#33    White Crane Feather

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 06:20 PM

View PostKazahel, on 20 March 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:



Well in my dreams I can just walk down the street. And I can do that in a lucid dream with no major plot lines occurring(they are usually the ones I don't bother to write down at all). And I think many people would experience this. So I might just walk down the street and walk through a wall for fun but I wouldn't call that a plotline or a plot driven story. And so I wouldn't use that as a way to say its an OBE and separate from dreaming. If you like next time I dream I'll do absolutely nothing, I'll just stand there. It will feel like a bit of a waste but if that makes it an obe then I might as well. lol(then I can say I had a true obe?)



Well I liken it to being numb. And not everyone experiences the vibrations and noises. With me I can understand how people would call them vibrations but for me they were not strong enough to give it that word. I would call it numb because I know my body is asleep and that's when I've gone 'out of body'. Or had that typical out of body experience.



And like I said before I've had enough experiences with precog dreaming and shared dreaming to believe there is a connection with more than just the mind of the dreamer.



Not to lucid dreaming there isn't. And the only 'difference' people use is the feel of leaving the body or seeing it.



Ah but how do you truly tell the difference?....  Having a lack of plot lines doesn't count because people can have dreams that don't have much of a story. And not everyone feels vibrations and hears noises, the same as not everyone sees the silver cord.




But this still doesn't mean its a separate experience from dreaming. And I got stuck a few weeks ago(its in the weird dreams thread). It was an odd experience but I still cant know for sure it had nothing to do with dreaming.



I doubt most people haven't heard of it by now. And I think they frantically get online to share what they feel is a different experience but that doesn't actually make it a separate experience from any other dream experience.
I think the common thread is that there is no way to know for sure. Like I have mentioned before we are dealing with labels here.
1) dreams
2) lucid dreams
3) OBEs

1)Fighting in a zombie apocalypse is clearly a dream.
2) realizing you are in the zombie apocalypse  and dreaming is a lucid dream
3) to the extent that an OBE is a dream or not depends wholy on a) if your spirit is actually separating from your body or not ( or Mabey the expansion of awareness inturpretation.. Which I tend lean towards) B ) if the information is self genereted or stimulated by something 'other'.

For me A is verified beyond a doubt, and you seem to be saying the same thing though we are a far cry from proof only personal revelation through experience. As for b well if a is varifiable b must be true.  

I don't think people with these experiences are under suggestion kaz, it's been going on long before people read or heard about it. It is the basis for most shamanic practices and has been around since prehistory.

I have had 'special' dreams aswell. Dreams that I know are not ordinary dreams. I am forced to classify them differently than say the zombie dream, by the same token induced OBE events simply cannot fall under the same label as a normal lucid dream. Especially when I don't believe the environment is totally generated from memory or creativity. I do believe there is a sense about it. Otherwise how could there be a shared dream or precognition dream, or a varification experience.

Anyway I guess we have to call it the way we see it. It would seem that if a specific kind of "dream" is not just a dream, then it should have a different label than ...we'll ... dream.

Mabey labels just do not belong in the mix... I dunno.

Edited by Seeker79, 20 March 2013 - 06:21 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#34    Kazahel

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:05 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 20 March 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

1)Fighting in a zombie apocalypse is clearly a dream.
2) realizing you are in the zombie apocalypse  and dreaming is a lucid dream
3) to the extent that an OBE is a dream or not depends wholy on a) if your spirit is actually separating from your body or not ( or Mabey the expansion of awareness inturpretation.. Which I tend lean towards) B ) if the information is self genereted or stimulated by something 'other'.

I agree that zombie style dreams are most likely just from someone watching a zombie movie or something along those lines. But if you were to go lucid in a zombie style dream and then fly away you can get out of the story style environment. That's why I disagree when you say all lucid dreams are story driven. I often spend time in lucid dreams just flying around with no other story. So there is nothing else to tell other than I flew around all night. So if we classed dreams as being story driven and obe as not being story driven then this would be an example of transferring from dreaming to obe.  But really the only thing that changed was the lack of characters and lack of action.

View PostSeeker79, on 20 March 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

I don't think people with these experiences are under suggestion kaz, it's been going on long before people read or heard about it. It is the basis for most shamanic practices and has been around since prehistory.

I think if someone tells them it was an out of body experience then they are under the suggestion/impression that it is totally separate to dreaming. And it has a long history yes, but what did they call it back then?  I don't think they used words like obe and astral projection. Probably words more along the lines of spirit travel and dreaming.

View PostSeeker79, on 20 March 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

Anyway I guess we have to call it the way we see it. It would seem that if a specific kind of "dream" is not just a dream, then it should have a different label than ...we'll ... dream.

Mabey labels just do not belong in the mix... I dunno.

Labels make sense to help explain things like precog dreaming and shared dreaming but I think it would be more accurate to call them out of body dreaming because there isn't really a clear separation.  So OBD or OBLD.

Here is a link I just found just then when typing in "out of body dreaming" http://www.world-of-...xperiences.html

It pretty much says what I've been saying in this thread. So I'm certainly not the only one that thinks this way.

Edited by Kazahel, 21 March 2013 - 02:08 AM.


#35    The Exodia

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 05:10 PM

oh. cough syrup? cool. i hope i can sleep peacefully. but everytime i sleep peacefully smthing just throw me into a portal and put me in weird situation. sigh. i can get out of it once i solved some problem in that situation. i find it weird everytime where i had to save something in order to get back in reality sleep. why does this happen to me?


#36    Perfection

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:21 PM

View PostThe Exodia, on 07 May 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

oh. cough syrup? cool. i hope i can sleep peacefully. but everytime i sleep peacefully smthing just throw me into a portal and put me in weird situation. sigh. i can get out of it once i solved some problem in that situation. i find it weird everytime where i had to save something in order to get back in reality sleep. why does this happen to me?

Each person has a spiritual guard that has the job of holding the soul in the material body & driving the soul through its earth life. So it is placing the soul into a space where it has to solve & overcome problems. It looks like your guard is taking things a step further & is also placing your soul into another dimension where you are given more problems to solve.


#37    Perfection

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:48 PM

View Postotkbrat, on 16 March 2013 - 03:02 AM, said:

I wouldn't say I am forcing it.  It starts out as a regular dream and then I realize I am dreaming, then I start floating.  I would have to say I have had pleasant ones and I am curious to be honest.  I would like to learn how to do this and control it.  In this particular one At first I was dreaming about a ex boyfriend and then I became lucid.  I can't really remember what the dream was about but soon I found myself in some kind of basement and like tunnels it seemed like.  There there were stairs and I saw a woman, she started wagging her finger at me like I was doing something wrong.  I can't remember if I went up or down but I think I went down.  I'm not totally sure if this is what I wanted to do or not.  The next thing i knew this nurse like person had me on a table.  I'm not sure I can describe what was all there.  It seemed otherworldly, maybe even demonic.  I tried to get away from her.  I felt like she was going to do something to me and thats when I forced myself to wake up.

This is all to tell you that your soul is being medically cared for at a deeper level while your consciousness is projected into the human body. The soul is in a state of suspended animation & the earth life it's living is like a dream. The nurses & doctors take care of the souls' health while certain guard beings lock the soul's consciousness into the human body where the soul assumes the identity of the body.

Your guard is permitting you to know that you have a nurse taking care of you at a deeper level & that's why you find yourself underground with the nurse. She is showing you that as a spirit your travels are strictly controlled & watched & you are not alone.

It seems frightening to meet these beings because we're in a dream state & they are wide awake, & we imagine the worst when actually the beings are the ones that make our lives here possible. They're very strict & stern at times, & at other times they are all fun & laughter.


#38    The Exodia

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:29 AM

oh i see. u might be correct. but it seems that guard hav his worried face everytime. i had no choice but to help the rest souls that time. but dealing with other dimension being is so not cool they are vicious and this dangerous aura is soo not cool at all. i cant run since he told me its my duty as well. but my peaceful sleep....


#39    Amalthe

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:16 AM

View PostPerfection, on 07 May 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

This is all to tell you that your soul is being medically cared for at a deeper level while your consciousness is projected into the human body. The soul is in a state of suspended animation & the earth life it's living is like a dream. The nurses & doctors take care of the souls' health while certain guard beings lock the soul's consciousness into the human body where the soul assumes the identity of the body.

Your guard is permitting you to know that you have a nurse taking care of you at a deeper level & that's why you find yourself underground with the nurse. She is showing you that as a spirit your travels are strictly controlled & watched & you are not alone.

It seems frightening to meet these beings because we're in a dream state & they are wide awake, & we imagine the worst when actually the beings are the ones that make our lives here possible. They're very strict & stern at times, & at other times they are all fun & laughter.

why do we need to solve problems in dream state? is there not enough problems in awake state to solve? A month ago i was on business trip and we had a dinner after long work day. We had some good food and excellent wine too, in decent quantities. After we were done, bus took us back to hotel. While i was in the bus, at 10:30 PM, i got message from my kid that she needs help solving math problems. And there i was, half tired half tipsy, sitting on back seat of the bus at almost 11 PM, trying to calculate when grandpa Finn brought pears to his grandchildren and divided them, if everyone get 6 pears, there would be 2 leftover, and if everyone get 7 pears, there would be 3 missing.... :w00t: :cry:
In dreams we sould have fun, and not suffer random punches from mrs Coincidence.

And besides, if there are guardians above us who protect us, why they don't chase those pesky slithery energy suckers away? Hate those maggots.


#40    Perfection

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 12:57 AM

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View PostAmalthe, on 10 May 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

why do we need to solve problems in dream state? is there not enough problems in awake state to solve? .........
...........In dreams we sould have fun, and not suffer random punches from mrs Coincidence.

.......And besides, if there are guardians above us who protect us, why they don't chase those pesky slithery energy suckers away? Hate those maggots.

We each have a fierce, spiritual, guard-dog type entity at our feet that keeps spiritual beings away from us while we're in the human body. At death the guard dogs leave us & we are taken to other worlds by spiritual beings. The guard dogs are also known as the beast that religious people fear. It's just a guard dog that makes it possible for us to experience human life, & so in a sense is mans best friend as well? Its master is the devil or negative force that keeps chaos happening on the earth so that souls are forced to learn by fixing problems.

That's what I believe anyway


#41    all16universes

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 02:01 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 20 March 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

Here my take on astral travel, there is no such thing,  they are just dreams, I am seventy years old and tied all that when I was younger, trying to meditate or project myself out of my body, but then I realise I could actully will myself to die.Dreams are dreams of suggestion, worry and come out  all distorted. I now can figure out all my dreams and why I dreaming them. To be honest I hope life after death is not all those crasy dreams, but is  something more real. however I do believe in near death experiences that people experience, they say are more real then a dream.

When you think you know, you don't know. Suppose you wake up to realize that everything you thought was real is just a virtual reality. If I made this claim, could you prove it otherwise? Our physical bodies will die one day, so this might as well be fake. But does it matter? Have you not experienced, have you not learned, have you not taken something valuable away from the experience? The reality of astral projection/OBEs is what you make of it. Hell, I can look for signs in my bowl of Cheerios and have revelations every morning if I decided to interpret my reality that way. The point is that it doesn't matter how you interpret anything -- if it causes new insight, sparks new thoughts, pushes you in a new direction, inspires creativity, or simply puts a smile on your face, then the experience was real because it sparked a change in you. That's all that matters.






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