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UFO reports - From Foo fighters to today


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#76    Kludge808

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:44 AM

View Postmeteorlima, on 22 March 2013 - 09:02 PM, said:

The photo is not a ufo in the clouds but rather a log floating down a fast moving river.
You have some way to verify this, right?

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#77    bmk1245

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:06 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 23 March 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

yes, that's what i've always argued, although people just seem to dismiss it point blank as sci fi fantasy. of course, also, it was not manned (or alienned), but was an automated probe or drone, size wouldn't be an issue, and neither wiould G forces that no living thing could stand or the immeasurable distances of space. What I've sometimes envisaged is a forward base or mother ship somewhere inconspicuous, like among the Moons of Jupiter or Saturn or the asteroid Belt, which might not be distinguishable from a regular Asteroid or moonlet, at least from this distance, which is used as a base for a systematic program of exploration of the whiole Soalr System, not necessarily just us. We might not be of any particular interest to any explorers; that might be why sightings of these probe craft are fairly intermittent and theyhaven't made Contact yet.
Possible, but why then send one of those big ones to chase jumbo stuffed with wine?

And BTW, they are pretty good at keeping radio silence, then...

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#78    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:26 AM

View Postbmk1245, on 23 March 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

Possible, but why then send one of those big ones to chase jumbo stuffed with wine?

And BTW, they are pretty good at keeping radio silence, then...
Well, of course, they probably wouldn't use the same radio frequencie we'd be able to listen to, I'm sure. I expect they'd probably have developed some other method of communication.

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#79    Kludge808

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:39 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 23 March 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

yes, that's what i've always argued, although people just seem to dismiss it point blank as sci fi fantasy.
It makes a lot more sense than having those small craft covering interstellar space.  Okay, so it worked for the Robinsons (& Dr. Smith) on "Lost in Space" but that was science fiction.  The best comparison I can come up with is an aircraft carrier which prepositions its aircraft so they can perform their mission.  A mothership would do precisely the same thing, preposition its smaller craft to perform their missions.

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of course, also, it was not manned (or alienned), but was an automated probe or drone, size wouldn't be an issue, and neither wiould G forces that no living thing could stand or the immeasurable distances of space.
Even an un-entitied ship would need to be large enough to carry the astrogation equipment, propulsion* and other equipment required to complete its mission.  It can be smaller than a being-carrying one to a point.  However with its mission likely being significantly more sophisticated than the probes we launch, it has to pack an awful lot of stuff aboard.

* Note that if it's traveling interstellar distances, it has to be able to do so by some means that allows apparent FTL velocities.  This could be any of several means - wormholes & space folding to mention two - however those means still require power in huge batches 'n loads.  Well, unless they use the navigators from "Dune". :yes:

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What I've sometimes envisaged is a forward base or mother ship somewhere inconspicuous, like among the Moons of Jupiter or Saturn or the asteroid Belt, which might not be distinguishable from a regular Asteroid or moonlet, at least from this distance, which is used as a base for a systematic program of exploration of the whiole Soalr System, not necessarily just us. We might not be of any particular interest to any explorers; that might be why sightings of these probe craft are fairly intermittent and theyhaven't made Contact yet.
Probes ... as in abductions? :alien: :cry:

Anyway, that's how I'd do it and, in fact, sketched it out in my notebooks for writing science fiction.  (They were among the things that went adrift somewhere between Pittsburgh, PA, and here.)  I'd think that they'd want to be hidden as much as possible and what sightings that there may have been (ie, the unknowns that might actually be alien craft) could easily have been incidental although somewhere in the back of my mind I have the idea that Portage County could have been aliens having a bit of fun.  :tsu:

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#80    meteorlima

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 04:20 PM

Replying to UFO reports-From Foo fighters to today...Open discussion from believers, FTBs,(flaming true believers) the woo-woo crazies and us skeptics. Here's a softball for you "skeptics"....http://pinktentacle....-mini-ufo-1972/


#81    bmk1245

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 05:47 PM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 23 March 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Well, of course, they probably wouldn't use the same radio frequencie we'd be able to listen to, I'm sure. I expect they'd probably have developed some other method of communication.
They probably would get away with single transmission, but bearing in ming volume of "sightings", I'd say - no way. And they would use same bands due to atmospheric absorption. As for some other means of communication - doubt it.

Arguing with fool is like playing chess with pigeon: he will scatter pieces, peck King's crown, crap on bishop, and fly away bragging how he won the game... (heard once, author unknown).
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#82    Kludge808

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 05:48 PM

View Postmeteorlima, on 23 March 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Replying to UFO reports-From Foo fighters to today...Open discussion from believers, FTBs,(flaming true believers) the woo-woo crazies and us skeptics. Here's a softball for you "skeptics"....http://pinktentacle....-mini-ufo-1972/
First it's 'us skeptics' then it's 'you "skeptics"'.  Sooo ... ummm ... which side of the fence are you on anyway?

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#83    Kludge808

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 05:54 PM

View Postbmk1245, on 23 March 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

They probably would get away with single transmission, but bearing in ming volume of "sightings", I'd say - no way. And they would use same bands due to atmospheric absorption. As for some other means of communication - doubt it.
This depends on the technology in use.  If they have the tech to get into the realm where wavelengths are measured in Angstroms (or their equivalent units), then it's a whole new ballgame.

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#84    bmk1245

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 05:59 PM

View Postmeteorlima, on 23 March 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Replying to UFO reports-From Foo fighters to today...Open discussion from believers, FTBs,(flaming true believers) the woo-woo crazies and us skeptics. Here's a softball for you "skeptics"....http://pinktentacle....-mini-ufo-1972/
Kids gave lil' aliens concussion by rattling their... er... spaceship. Then it was disappearing (from the closet)/was recaptured few times, then it disappeared from the bag... Highly unbelievable, but cool story for scifi anime.

Arguing with fool is like playing chess with pigeon: he will scatter pieces, peck King's crown, crap on bishop, and fly away bragging how he won the game... (heard once, author unknown).
Zhoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! Oh, that was quick. Do I get another? Sorry, Mate. That's your lot. Basil Fawlty (John Cleese).

#85    bmk1245

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:16 PM

View PostKludge808, on 23 March 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

This depends on the technology in use.  If they have the tech to get into the realm where wavelengths are measured in Angstroms (or their equivalent units), then it's a whole new ballgame.
Then they would drive X-Ray astronomers mad, plus absorption and scattering would kick in again.

Arguing with fool is like playing chess with pigeon: he will scatter pieces, peck King's crown, crap on bishop, and fly away bragging how he won the game... (heard once, author unknown).
Zhoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! Oh, that was quick. Do I get another? Sorry, Mate. That's your lot. Basil Fawlty (John Cleese).

#86    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:19 PM

View Postbmk1245, on 23 March 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

They probably would get away with single transmission, but bearing in ming volume of "sightings", I'd say - no way. And they would use same bands due to atmospheric absorption. As for some other means of communication - doubt it.
really? Bearing in mind that we've only been able to communication wirelessly since the 1890s, do you really think that that's the be all and end all of communication technology and no race possessing advanced technology would ever be likely to develop any way that couldn't be overheard? That really is assuming that we already know all there is to know.

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#87    psyche101

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:27 AM

View PostKludge808, on 22 March 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

Yep.  I guess they read our newspapers and figure they may as well play along. :yes:

Which brings up an interesting point.  Are the triangular craft derived from the Imperial star destroyers?  They're definitely triangular although a lot more pointy, more like an arrowhead.

Seems more than reasonable, good time frame for Star Wars to give The Belgian Flop some inspiration which is how we probably ended up with triangles there, from the more genuine reports one gets the impression that spheres were probably all that was really seen at that one.

View PostKludge808, on 22 March 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

Okay, so what are those rectangular thingies at the let end of the object?  There are an awful lot of straight lines in that pic which don't make any kind of sense.  Your thoughts?

I do not think it is in the distance and I reckon brackets to hold an old school folding ruler together which probably explains the straight lines.

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Edited by psyche101, 25 March 2013 - 02:29 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#88    psyche101

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:31 AM

View Postmeteorlima, on 22 March 2013 - 09:02 PM, said:

The photo is not a ufo in the clouds but rather a log floating down a fast moving river.

I do not think so, it came from an official publication regarding Mount Washington.

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Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#89    psyche101

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:39 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 23 March 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

yes, that's what i've always argued, although people just seem to dismiss it point blank as sci fi fantasy. of course, also, it was not manned (or alienned), but was an automated probe or drone, size wouldn't be an issue, and neither wiould G forces that no living thing could stand or the immeasurable distances of space. What I've sometimes envisaged is a forward base or mother ship somewhere inconspicuous, like among the Moons of Jupiter or Saturn or the asteroid Belt, which might not be distinguishable from a regular Asteroid or moonlet, at least from this distance, which is used as a base for a systematic program of exploration of the whiole Soalr System, not necessarily just us. We might not be of any particular interest to any explorers; that might be why sightings of these probe craft are fairly intermittent and theyhaven't made Contact yet.

I dismiss it as fantasy because it leaves very open ends. If we have scout ships then we do not even have to track them all the way back to a planet, just one spot in the Solar System as suggested, so if anything a mothership scenario should be that much easier to detect yet again. I object to the "invisible" motherships assumed to be housing what is assumed to be ET, when said object does not even have a sensible reason for considering it to be in interstellar origin. It's not just the cart before the horse, it's the seed that would eventually grow a tree before the horse.
Let's say all UFO's, or even a significant sample all head into space, and disappear in the asteroid belt, then you may have a valid assumption, but the objects you are talking about have not ever been tracked as even heading for space, so it seems a leap to consider a space docked mothership for something that does not even go into space.

And I disagree that a mothership looking like or hiding on/in an Asteroid/moon is sufficient to be completely hidden from us. Whilst it sounds neat, we are more vigilant than that. I still do not know why a simple phone call would not be superior in every single way, in particular, when talking about earth.

It would not hurt for you to put a little more effort into your ideal if yo feel so strongly about is, instead of always going "I think it's a marvellous Idea, but some don't" I mean a bit of camouflage? That's the answer to the UFO phenomena and this astounding stealth? Do you think it is likely that such a simple concept creates such controversy?

Edited by psyche101, 25 March 2013 - 02:42 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#90    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:21 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 25 March 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:



It would not hurt for you to put a little more effort into your ideal if yo feel so strongly about is, instead of always going "I think it's a marvellous Idea, but some don't" I mean a bit of camouflage? That's the answer to the UFO phenomena and this astounding stealth? Do you think it is likely that such a simple concept creates such controversy?
Oh no, I'm not being challenged by someone else now? I'm being challenged by Zoser becuause I'm a lazy Skeptic. i really can't win. All my "ideal" is is a few ideas that i think don't seem too unreasonable, heavens, I'm not trying to promote a Hypothesis or anything. I don't know why you're so dismissive of it, I presume it must be because you're so determined to insist that the idea of exploration by exterrestrial intelligence is so preposterous, is that it? I really do think you're deliberately being obtuse with your "objections" sometimes, I really do. Like when you kept trying to insist that I kept trying to insist on UFOs being manned by Robots, when you knew full well that that wasn't what I meant. And you keep on about your "simple phone call"; that assumes that anyone would, as soon as they'd discovered us, want to make contact with us. Why would they want to do that? "It would be rude not to", you say; that's just pure anthropomorphism. I try to talk about basic principles of scientific study, of not interfering with your subject, and you just talk about Star Trek. I really do think you're being deliberately obtuse, I really do.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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