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Why is being liberal bad?


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#61    F3SS

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:58 AM

View Postbacca, on 01 February 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:



Well I must say that your arrogance is pretty impressive. I do not like where all tax money is spent but you know what it isn't all about me or what I would like, there are things that money should go to and there are things that are necessary evils. In this country we try to avoid children starving in the street etc. The government also pays for breast reductions. I realize that you feel you have some superior knowledge and understanding and that by putting me into a box of what you call 'typical' you can somehow validate your own ideas by belittling mine. I do not have to go look up any past questions etc as I have the ability to ask my own here, as I have done and talk to people now...no one said  you needed to answer me...I'm not entirely sure or not if  you think speaking down to people makes you look smart or if you are just normally like that...whether or not I read political threads here or elsewhere is not your concern, you obviously feel that being liberal is bad, which was the point, you somehow think that because I have certain ideas that I don't understand certain things yet you know nothing about me...the idea that you make such generalizations about people who ask questions like mine or hold ideas like mine are exactly why the questions need to be asked, you come across seeming like you feel you are better then other people....do you really think that is a good thing?

Ehh, I've been through this all before. We're going down the wrong road. Your basic question is very broad and hard to answer. There's no simple way to answer.  I'm just saying that these kinds of things take time to understand and getting into the conversations will help you understand better than trying to find an answer.

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#62    bacca

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:04 AM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 01 February 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

Ehh, I've been through this all before. We're going down the wrong road. Your basic question is very broad and hard to answer. There's no simple way to answer.  I'm just saying that these kinds of things take time to understand and getting into the conversations will help you understand better than trying to find an answer.

Exactly, I want the conversation...it is broad, for a reason really, I have found that most people have at least one issue that they see the other side on and that usually is a starting point of how or why people see things the way they do...Perhaps I should have added some of my own things that fall onto the other side, but the point was why or how liberals got the role of bad guy or what not...There are people who go to far, PETA for instance, taking a good idea and going wacky doesn't help the idea...taking an idea and using invalid reasons or flat out lies to prove their point (this is done on both sides) there is really no difference between the views on how people who don't agree with them will talk about or see them...I personally wanted the discussion, you can turn it to the other side, it should be the same end result should it not? I don't understand the extreme of either side, not when it is an all or nothing debate...there are always things on the other side that make sense, for me that is why I personal use social issues, those are the ones that I am liberal about, everything else and normally I can join the GOP :innocent:

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#63    Orcseeker

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:13 AM

I do agree with because on some points. Some of the management on the tax spending is abysmal. Things costing tenfold more than they should. Also feeding the American war machine which results in terrorising other countries and costs extreme amounts of money to support. All under the guise of solving other problems in other countries but failing to address their own problems.


#64    AsteroidX

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:15 AM

Its actually the Government itself trying to polarize us. Right or Left we both see different issues as being of "greater" importance but with a few exceptions I dont think either side dismisses the others issues as irrelevant.

If your looking for the root of the division it lies in Washington (yes I spelled it lies on purpose).


#65    bacca

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:21 AM

View PostOrcseeker, on 01 February 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

I do agree with because on some points. Some of the management on the tax spending is abysmal. Things costing tenfold more than they should. Also feeding the American war machine which results in terrorising other countries and costs extreme amounts of money to support. All under the guise of solving other problems in other countries but failing to address their own problems.

Yes, I agree we spend money in countries and on 'wars' for what? There are places in the world I would not have a problem with us helping, but as they say, if there is no money to be made we don't go....I think we cause more problems then we solve, now don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with the military, I have respect for anyone who is willing to put on the uniform and serve...the sad part is they even don't get the right equipment they need all the time...to expensive :) ... these things drive me nuts :no:

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#66    AsteroidX

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:24 AM

Quote

Yes, I agree we spend money in countries and on 'wars' for what? There are places in the world I would not have a problem with us helping, but as they say, if there is no money to be made we don't go....I think we cause more problems then we solve, now don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with the military, I have respect for anyone who is willing to put on the uniform and serve...the sad part is they even don't get the right equipment they need all the time...to expensive :) ... these things drive me nuts :no:

The Conservative argument is nearly word for word the same.


#67    bacca

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:33 AM

View PostAsteroidX, on 01 February 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

The Conservative argument is nearly word for word the same.


So how do you bridge the gap...two sides that in all honesty don't understand how the other thinks and feels they way they do about certain issues...I don't mean those in Washington or state politics, but real people. I believe that it is the normal person that makes the difference or at least could start making the difference...but how can two sides that have a hard time doing anything other than getting angry and frustrated really find out how and/or why the other sides wants what they want...is it just to big?

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#68    F3SS

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:33 AM

View Postbacca, on 01 February 2013 - 03:04 AM, said:

why or how liberals got the role of bad guy or what not...
Can you honestly say that conservatism is portrayed in a positive light these days? I mean the answer is in the eye of the beholder. It's a question of personal perspective.
Liberals run the country based on emotion first at all costs. If it feels good, do it. You can't run a country with your emotions. Emotions distort other realities that must factor into important decisions regarding the future of the country such as its financial situation and the possible negative effects of people getting used to the government being their guiding light.

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#69    AsteroidX

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:05 AM

Quote

So how do you bridge the gap...two sides that in all honesty don't understand how the other thinks and feels they way they do about certain issues...I don't mean those in Washington or state politics, but real people. I believe that it is the normal person that makes the difference or at least could start making the difference...but how can two sides that have a hard time doing anything other than getting angry and frustrated really find out how and/or why the other sides wants what they want...is it just to big?

You raise the best question ever. As that is truly a big part of getting us out of this mess. From my perspective conversations like were having on some obscure board are the beginnings. Really if they wont do it in Washington then were gonna have to do it ourselves.


#70    acidhead

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:41 AM

View Postgreen_dude777, on 31 January 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

I think one of the biggest reasons, in addition to the point Wearer of Hats has made, is people really don't understand the two labels. Liberal and Conservative are terms that are relative to each other (I have been labeled as one or the other depending on the topic).  People like to create a 'black and white' view of things.

At the minimum, there should at least be 4 differently labeled groups, at least in the U.S.

1) Fiscally liberal, socially liberal
2) Fiscally liberal, socially conservative
3) Fiscally conservative, socially conservative
4) Fiscally conservative, socially liberal

# 3 is Libertarian

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#71    Orcseeker

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:01 AM

View Postbacca, on 01 February 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:



Yes, I agree we spend money in countries and on 'wars' for what? There are places in the world I would not have a problem with us helping, but as they say, if there is no money to be made we don't go....I think we cause more problems then we solve, now don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with the military, I have respect for anyone who is willing to put on the uniform and serve...the sad part is they even don't get the right equipment they need all the time...to expensive :) ... these things drive me nuts :no:

Sorry because was meant to be becca... Autocorrect. What kinda annoys me when people say "we are fighting for the freedom of our country". It is idiocy of the highest level. They had more freedom when the "war" started and a lot less with every year that passes. They are in other countries not to protect their own. I don't condemn anyone who goes into the military because they aren't the ones who call the shots.


#72    Yamato

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:49 AM

View Postacidhead, on 01 February 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

# 3 is Libertarian
#3 should be libertarian at first glance, but is anything but.  Have you heard what these social conservatives are proposing?   They might not want to come into our garage and tell us what kind of GM to drive, they might not come in our gun cabinet and tell us what kind of gun to shoot, or in our bathroom and tell us what kind of toilet to flush, but they'll come into our bedroom and tell us what kind of sex to have, they'll come into our marriage and tell us what kind of relationship to have, they'll amend the Constitution with words that are already in the dictionary, with definitions for that word that aren't.   I've got higher standards for libertarianism than that, and #3's version of nanny boo boo govt ain't it.

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#73    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:53 AM

All societies seem to have a two-way split along these lines.  In Vietnam we have liberals (who want to push for more of a market economy and maybe a little local democracy) and "hard-liners."


#74    Gromdor

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:56 AM

I would say #4 is Libertarian.


#75    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:07 AM

I subscribe to a web site (Reason) that is supposed to be Libertarian, but I don't get it.  I would not be the one to do it, but maybe some Libertarian out there would start a thread on this.

As far as I am concerned, I see liberty as a nice slogan but in reality unachievable, and its use as a slogan doing more harm than good.  I also think there are other objectives in life that would be more important, such as compassion, equality, harmony, universal dignity, public health and safety, etc.





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