Reincarnation

[Spock_the_Future]

HI All,

I am an Atheist but still few reports about Reincarnation bother me a little. How do these kids know what they know when they have never been there ? putting in some unsubstantiated links:

http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm

http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=ian-stevenson-semkiw-childhood-memories-reincarnation-past-life-lives

http://www.rd.com/true-stories/inspiring/chilling-reincarnation-stories/

Your take ?

[quiXilver]

The seasons cycle.

Why shouldn't we?

And whether we do or not, why be bothered either way...

Nature is progressive circles, moving in spirals.

We are nature.

[Spock_the_Future]

The seasons cycle.

Why shouldn't we?

And whether we do or not, why be bothered either way...

Nature is progressive circles, moving in spirals.

We are nature.

But that does not answer the assumption. I have watched movie Pi, it talks about Spirals and 216 numbers depicting so called GOD, What does that prove ? these are movies !! I am asking about assumptions about and facts about reincarnation.

do these happen ?

[quiXilver]

Spirals happen.

Seasons cycle.

Energy does not appear to be lost... only rearranged.

This to me, speaks of the potential in Nature to support the idea of reincarnation.

The anecdotal stories are compelling, but as for proof? pfft. Either you will lean toward believing or disbelieving based on the filters created in your mind by your family, upbringing and culture. Changing that is tantamount to installing a new operating system in your subconscious. Even direct experience is unreliable, as our senses are notoriously inaccurate and tainted by what we want, expect, or anticipate seeing.

life is... I am... that's enough for me.

[Spock_the_Future]

Spirals happen.

Seasons cycle.

The anecdotal stories are compelling, but as for proof? pfft. Either you will lean toward believing or disbelieving based on the filters created in your mind by your family, upbringing and culture. Changing that is tantamount to installing a new operating system in your subconscious. Even direct experience is unreliable, as our senses are notoriously inaccurate and tainted by what we want, expect, or anticipate seeing.

life is... I am... that's enough for me.

I see what you mean. My family is completely religious (My Wife is deeply religious too, it was a Love Marriage anyway, In India 20%-30% are that anyway and I am the only one this way which Hinduism allows). Anyway there are stories and proofs thrown around so I am just asking. Also I may not believe in GOD but some abilities I think can happen. I am open to facts if provided, can't deny everything and not everything in the folklore has to be a lie. World is weird as it is.

I am willing to change, accept valid arguments, I was talking about Evolution in this forum a year back and the discussion changed my point of view regarding that. We evolve don't we ? And try and Understand new Ideas. Hinduism allows that too as it allows my Atheism.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Spock_the_Future

[quiXilver]

I'm deeply intrigued by the Tibetan concept of The Rainbow Body.

It's reflected in myriad other cultures under other names, but that's where I first encountered it and I find it fascinating...

[Spock_the_Future]

I'm deeply intrigued by the Tibetan concept of The Rainbow Body.

Rainbow body ? Don't know about the concept and will start searching about it anyway Tibet has been taken over by Chinese thanks to US and former (from starting Brit loving Anti-National) and puppet PM's of India so the true Tibet is lost and I am afraid so are the knowledge it carried. we should have supported them. it's politics anyhow and is has no relation whatsoever with the question. I see the loss of Knowledge in a bad way anyhow whatever they could have taught the world or the supposed treasures / secrets that they had, I have no confirmation about this, I mean if they had any good supposed treasures / secrets.

Well who knows, Now what I heard last time the Chinese Govt. Installed their own as Lama instead of one who is to be found. Reincarnations is what Tibet believed which reminds me of "The last Airbender". I don't know if the thing is like that.

Anyway the news reports I added are random and don't prove anything.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Spock_the_Future

[quiXilver]

Yea, it's a sadistic and insanely sad reality, what China has done in Tibet. Hard to imagine people want to and are able to justify such horror.

One of my oldest friends and I routinely challenge each other to find the positive side of some rather dark things. This has stemmed from me constantly hammering him with my musings about duality being an illusion and rather than being two separate things, it's usually one thing, expressed in varying shades of two extremes.

One evening we were sitting in my living room, smoking and drinking and playing a board game and he said to me...

"ok, find the positive in this... China invading Tibet."

After a few days of sitting with it and letting it process, this idea settled on my thought pond as I was reading the excerpts online, of a teaching that was published by a student of a Rinpoche located in Seattle and I called him and said something to this affect:

"The positive side of the Chinese invasion of Tibet, is that of the dandelion principle of violence. What you seek to dispose of with violence, is often dispersed and magnified. Walk through your yard and kick all the dandelions out of rage and desperation, only to find many more next Spring. The Chinese sought to stamp out the undeniably powerful and to their minds subversive influence of Tibetan philosophy, science and teaching. In so doing, they not only failed to stamp it out. They magnified it by magnitudes of thousands as many high level rinpoches and teachers of unfailing vigor and wisdom, rather than sitting in the Himilayas for their life spans, were spread across the globe and now influence many, many more people than would have been reached prior to the invasion."

[Spock_the_Future]

One evening we were sitting in my living room, smoking and drinking and playing a board game and he said to me...

"ok, find the positive in this... China invading Tibet."

After a few days of sitting with it and letting it process, this idea settled on my thought pond as I was reading the excerpts online, of a teaching that was published by a student of a Rinpoche located in Seattle and I called him and said something to this affect:

"The positive side of the Chinese invasion of Tibet, is that of the dandelion principle of violence. What you seek to dispose of with violence, is often dispersed and magnified. Walk through your yard and kick all the dandelions out of rage and desperation, only to find many more next Spring. The Chinese sought to stamp out the undeniably powerful and to their minds subversive influence of Tibetan philosophy, science and teaching. In so doing, they not only failed to stamp it out. They magnified it by magnitudes of thousands as many high level rinpoches and teachers of unfailing vigor and wisdom, rather than sitting in the Himilayas for their life spans, were spread across the globe and now influence many, many more people than would have been reached prior to the invasion."

I am Sorry to Say that Tibet's Monk's are burning themselves for protest. We in India have Sheltered Tibetan Refugees and they have a market in Delhi (Country's Capital) solely for them, but did that do them justice ? how many news gets out of China about Monks Self immolating ? China is a closed country and US supports that.

Armchair Hypothesis is easy,it's hard to be the person in there, Just like trying to find difference between Liberal Muslim and a Jehadi which are favored as minorities everywhere in the world. It all Armchair Hypothesis, I know when I interact with the Tibetan Refufegee and they know that they are in a country(In India) but it is not theirs and neither (Because of Brit Loving or Puppet PM's) we have provided them any rights. They have not grown. They have diminished and would be replaced by Chinese by Year's end. Then the ones called themselves Tibetans would not be Tibetans, They would be Chinese, So the Knowledge is lost because of politics and Monks Burn themselves will escalate. Did US Help when Tibet was Occupied ? Did US ask China to F Off ? we had a number of c*****sucking PM's from Jawaharlal supported by C*****Sucker Gandhi till now and no one helped them. What are we f-ing talking about now, did we ever help them ? This was a nation which taught Peace.

Anyway back to topic. Tibet lama is chosen because they think it is an reincarnation. What do reports signify ?

[Grandpa Greenman]

I found the Bardo Thodol very interesting. Kind of a how to manual for afterlife. Yup, the USA drop the ball when it came to Tibet. But I am not sure we could have stop them. Kind of hard to fight when you can't breathe.

Looks like India is about to drop the ball with Bangladesh, though. Shoot to kill, as sea levels rise you just might have to shoot them all. But then we are off topic.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/libertycentral/2011/jan/23/india-bangladesh-border-shoot-to-kill-policy

[Spock_the_Future]

I found the Bardo Thodol very interesting. Kind of a how to manual for afterlife. Yup, the USA drop the ball when it came to Tibet. But I am not sure we could have stop them. Kind of hard to fight when you can't breathe.

Looks like India is about to drop the ball with Bangladesh, though. Shoot to kill, as sea levels rise you just might have to shoot them all. But then we are off topic.

http://www.theguardi...-to-kill-policy

This is kind of a wrong report and I'll tell you why. They come as refugees, are gives green card in an instant by local leaders for Minority appeasement and are used to vote for the Govt in West Bengal (a state) and Bihar(Another state) as all the refugees are Muslims for liquor and Indian Citizenship as in Congress Govt we had only this ans scams, they wanted to rule and we let them, Also votes are given by Muslims as they want to implement Muslims laws all across the country in India and breed like a rabbit to vote (US also supports that !!). We just had a border agreement too recently. Assam(another state) which actually has East Indians (We have a lot of look and religion diffs, North East are Christians mainly) had infiltrations from Bangladeshi Muslims and suffered a lot of riots because of that, Muslim Jehadis are increasing in my country from Bangladesh and US sponsored Pakistan is the main Culprit for most of the terror attacks and infiltrations.

US sponsors Muslim attacks and then condemns it. I find it hilarious. Anyway back to the Topic as you also said.

Valid Reincarnation stories anyone ??

[Davros of Skaro]

If we do reincarnate? It does not mean Religions with such a concept is accurate.

If it's real? It can be something simple as interdimensional beings taking a joy ride in a Monkey Suit because they cannot experience the emotions such a Suit goes through due to biological evolution in this plane of existence?

Being an Atheist does not limit thought like dogmatic scripture is designed (by Man) to do.

[gantonio45]

Reincarnation for me is the ONE area that I struggle with. What do I mean by this? As a Born Again Chrisitian, I have a new found and complete faith in God, and my Savior Jesus Christ.

With this new belief, the Bible says it is "appointed for man to live only once." and with every other Chrisitian I have spoken with, this to them, means God does not allow reincarnation to take place. I however, have always believed that reincarnation does happen and has happened. I myself have very vivid memories of a time in ancient egypt, being a soldier in the Union Army; and being an informant of some kind in 1970's New York City.

Before I became born again, I had gone to three different modern-day shamans who (without knowing anything about me except my name and age) told me I had a very strong connection to ancient egyptian culture, loved Civil War history, and had an attraction to the history of organized crime with a deep understanding of the affects it has on a family. Both shamans also told me that I am deeply connected with nature and have a spirit animal that has been with me from birth. That animal? A raven. Ravens have been my favorite bird since I was a little kid, and have been linked to people who possess the unique quality to tap into both our physical world, and the spiritual world simultaneously.

I went a little off topic there, but my point is; even though I believe in Jesus Christ, I still also believe that He does have the power to reincarnate someone, and perhaps He even does so. If, maybe we as a human didn't learn all we had to learn in one lifetime, God says "Hey, try again." I mean, He is God after all, so if anyone can reincarnate someone, it would be Him; and who are we to say He doesn't allow it.

I would be interested to know if any other Christians on here also struggle with this same issue as I do.

[StarMountainKid]

I had a personal experience with reincarnation. About 20 years ago I had a girlfriend who was interested in spirit guides, automatic writing and the like. I didn't take all that too seriously until one day she told me about her spirit guide named George. George had told her she had lived in the 1800s in a German community near the town of Genevieve, Missouri.

Ste. Genevieve was founded in 1735 by French Canadian colonists. Ste. Genevieve was the first organized European settlement west of the Mississippi. After 1804 German immigrants migrated to the village. This from Wikipedia.

Anyway, neither myself nor my girlfriend had known about all this at the time, all we knew was George had told her about the German settlement near Genevieve, Mo., and that she had lived there in the 1800s.

So one Saturday we looked at a roadmap and drove to Genevieve (we lived in west Tennessee at the time). When we got to the town we found it to be a tourist attraction. We took a tour of an old house from the late 1800s where a prominent family had lived. After the tour, I asked the tour guide if there was any chance there was an old German village nearby.

She said yes there was, it was settled in the early 1800s by German families and it was about five miles out of town. She said there were some old buildings still there, but it was on private property, and only group tours were permitted by the owner of the property, booked in advance. Well, we got directions and drove there. There was a big iron gate across a side road that led to the old German settlement, so we just paused and looked, then drove back to Genevieve, then home.

So, from where did all this information come about Genevieve and the German settlement? As far as I knew, my girlfriend had no knowledge of these locations until George told her of them. If she were to make all this up, she would have had to have done some research on these locations, and why pick these in particular?

One explanation would be maybe she read about all this somewhere in some reincarnation literature and applied it to herself. I don't know the answer. I was nervous about all this reincarnation stuff at the time. Then one day my girlfriend said that her spirit guide George had mentioned me.

That pretty much freaked me out, and it wasn't long before I broke off our relationship. At the time I didn't feel comfortable getting involved in all this kind of mumbo-jumbo. That's the true story from my standpoint, take it or leave it. I still don't know what to make of it myself.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

HI All,

I am an Atheist but still few reports about Reincarnation bother me a little. How do these kids know what they know when they have never been there ? putting in some unsubstantiated links:

http://reluctant-mes...ation-proof.htm

http://www.iisis.net...past-life-lives

http://www.rd.com/tr...nation-stories/

Your take ?

I find that I have some belief in it. I have to reflect a lot on the many different things like ghosts, and after life and Heaven and reincarnation, I think it's weird how it doesn't seem to all factor in together. But on reincarnation alone, I feel that there some times I have flashes of areas that I haven't been before when I get there for the first time, but yet it's strangely familiar.

I have this book: https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=g893xgpPXIsC&source=productsearch&utm_source=HA_Desktop_US&utm_medium=SEM&utm_campaign=PLA&pcampaignid=MKTAD0930BO1&gl=US&gclid=CNm865XTmcYCFcFiNwod5uQAuQ&gclsrc=ds And reading it amazes me how the possibly could be.

[White Crane Feather]

I tend to think reincarnation is a logical solution to an eternal afterlife. Eternity would get pretty boring if you couldn't forget that your were imortal and live with some risk ocasionally. Haveing interacted with spirits, there seems to come a point that they are no longer available. This happened with my father. He did sort of leave me a note that I wouldn't be seeing him any more and he was moving on to something else.

Here are some logical problems that I do have though. In the vastness of the universe there are bound to be other sentient races somwhere out there. Why don't we remeber lives from Planet X or plannet Z. Do we only reincarnate as human? But humans have only been around for 200,000 years. An eternal soul should have lived many times not being human. Maybe some of us just like certain kinds of life forms as vehicles to take our interdimentional vacation in, but if we are going to consider these things we must consider the ultimate consequences. Eternal reincarnatiin necessitates us living as aliens at some point. And if memories of past lives are apart of the phenominon, how come no one remembers being a geinus space slug living on a gas giant somewhere?

I suppose we may only have memories of our imeadiate past life, I don't know. While I lean towards reincarnation the logical ends of if spider out into all kinds of things. Eternity a very tricky element.

Also while I am uncomfortable with true death, I rather like the fact that I was born. The only way to have a birth is to have a state of non existance. When we talk about reincarnation we have to ask ourselves did we ever not exist? If yes, then what's stopping us from being in that state again? If no, what's holding us here?

Edited June 18, 2015 by White Crane Feather

[acute]

I have seen enough on this subject to know what I think.

Many of these children start speaking about their 'other family' when they can barely talk!

When they become old enough, they can give the names of their former self and family members, the homes they lived in, other houses that once existed (or still exist), and their former occupants. They can reel off exact details of places they have never visited: the culture, history, locations, property, people, descriptions, marriages, children, deaths, occupations, even pets! Often, they know things that local historians struggle to find (in parish records, for example), but they are proven correct.

False memory, parental coaching, or watching documentaries on TV, cannot explain these cases, and some researchers have hundreds of them. To me, it is irrefutable evidence of reincarnation.

Edited June 18, 2015 by acute

[Bendy Demon]

I think White Crane has brought up an excellent point. IF reincarnation is "real" and if supposedly there are other worlds out there with sentient beings then why are there no supposed memories of life on other worlds then? I mean real lives, not this hokey garbage about cities made of gemstones and people flying through the air and all that fantasy stuff.

If souls exist in the manner many claim it does then it would seem pointless to be constantly reborn on the same planet.

However, if all souls really are is just, basically, electricity flowing through this planet like a network then all souls really would be is just flowing electrons..just as flowing electricity, for example, leaves a toaster after it is done doing toaster stuff then goes on to power something else with no recollection that it was just inside a toaster.

[spirit unknown]

After you have a paranormal experience. Your left with alot of question's. One possibility is reincarnation. I (believers) like to keep an open mind.

So anything goes. Like a glass of wine. Swirl it around a bit and see how it is. You don't have to like it.

I seen a video yesterday on YouTube on reincarnation. It shows pic's of people of today from old pic's of old. It blew me away. Check it out.

-Sunny.

[Lumpino]

Interestin view have some eastern philosophies. Like sankhya (samkhia), Brahmasutra, Kashmiri shivaism a many others.

People are the last stage of terrestrial evolution and they can choose between the paths of return and Development.

Return is a Paramatman of Yogis or Nirvana buddhists or Bythos old Gnostics.....

Or they can go between supernatural beings. It seek some easten yogis (see Ocean of stories by Somadeva), taoists (see by Richard Willhelm, The secret of the golden flower), it was a path of ancient mysteries.........

Or they can also keep slapping in the cycles of on earthly births, hells, paradise .... see Bardo thedol.

By the way, gods are according those philosophies consequences of natural development.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Lumpino

[Frank Merton]

After you have a paranormal experience. Your left with alot of question's. One possibility is reincarnation. I (believers) like to keep an open mind.

So anything goes. Like a glass of wine. Swirl it around a bit and see how it is. You don't have to like it.

I seen a video yesterday on YouTube on reincarnation. It shows pic's of people of today from old pic's of old. It blew me away. Check it out.

-Sunny.

You claim an open mind but speak as a believer. Those two don't go together.

[Frank Merton]

I have seen enough on this subject to know what I think.

Many of these children start speaking about their 'other family' when they can barely talk!

When they become old enough, they can give the names of their former self and family members, the homes they lived in, other houses that once existed (or still exist), and their former occupants. They can reel off exact details of places they have never visited: the culture, history, locations, property, people, descriptions, marriages, children, deaths, occupations, even pets! Often, they know things that local historians struggle to find (in parish records, for example), but they are proven correct.

False memory, parental coaching, or watching documentaries on TV, cannot explain these cases, and some researchers have hundreds of them. To me, it is irrefutable evidence of reincarnation.

Your assertion does not prove that these things don't explain these claims, and even if they don't it proves no more than that we don't know.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

After you have a paranormal experience. Your left with alot of question's. One possibility is reincarnation. I (believers) like to keep an open mind.

So anything goes. Like a glass of wine. Swirl it around a bit and see how it is. You don't have to like it.

I seen a video yesterday on YouTube on reincarnation. It shows pic's of people of today from old pic's of old. It blew me away. Check it out.

-Sunny.

I often feel that reincarnation is a possibility. That's my point of view. I have seen articles, and things, like what you saw on youtube, with the pictures of today and the past, and I wouldn't say that is something that is a good example. I mean, I would chalk that up to coincidental facial appearances. If anything, I would just look at the eyes for similarity in expression. I would even think, that would be a personal point of view speculation at that as well. I mean, we have look-a-likes today, that doesn't mean anything, right?

[Shibolet]

I think White Crane has brought up an excellent point. IF reincarnation is "real" and if supposedly there are other worlds out there with sentient beings then why are there no supposed memories of life on other worlds then? I mean real lives, not this hokey garbage about cities made of gemstones and people flying through the air and all that fantasy stuff.

If souls exist in the manner many claim it does then it would seem pointless to be constantly reborn on the same planet.

However, if all souls really are is just, basically, electricity flowing through this planet like a network then all souls really would be is just flowing electrons..just as flowing electricity, for example, leaves a toaster after it is done doing toaster stuff then goes on to power something else with no recollection that it was just inside a toaster.

Yea, I know what you mean but, too bad! Souls do not exist in the manner many claim it does. According to Genesis 2:7, when God formed man from the dust of the earth, He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul. To become is to be and not to have. It means that we are souls; we don't have souls. Soul is only the combination of body with the breath of life. At death that combination is undone as the body goes back to the dust and the breath of life returns to God Who breathed it into the body. (Eccles. 9:5,6; 12:7) Sorry for I feel my explanation means a lot of rain on the parade of many people

[Shibolet]

I tend to think reincarnation is a logical solution to an eternal afterlife. Eternity would get pretty boring if you couldn't forget that your were imortal and live with some risk ocasionally. Haveing interacted with spirits, there seems to come a point that they are no longer available. This happened with my father. He did sort of leave me a note that I wouldn't be seeing him any more and he was moving on to something else.

Here are some logical problems that I do have though. In the vastness of the universe there are bound to be other sentient races somwhere out there. Why don't we remeber lives from Planet X or plannet Z. Do we only reincarnate as human? But humans have only been around for 200,000 years. An eternal soul should have lived many times not being human. Maybe some of us just like certain kinds of life forms as vehicles to take our interdimentional vacation in, but if we are going to consider these things we must consider the ultimate consequences. Eternal reincarnatiin necessitates us living as aliens at some point. And if memories of past lives are apart of the phenominon, how come no one remembers being a geinus space slug living on a gas giant somewhere?

I suppose we may only have memories of our imeadiate past life, I don't know. While I lean towards reincarnation the logical ends of if spider out into all kinds of things. Eternity a very tricky element.

Also while I am uncomfortable with true death, I rather like the fact that I was born. The only way to have a birth is to have a state of non existance. When we talk about reincarnation we have to ask ourselves did we ever not exist? If yes, then what's stopping us from being in that state again? If no, what's holding us here?

Sorry WC if I have to rain on your parade because, you are going to remain forever in the most boring condition ever because there is no reincarnation. It means that once dead, no one will ever return. But don't worry; you won't feel your boredom in the grave. That's what is good about the afterlife. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21)