waterjet Posted December 15, 2004 #1 Share Posted December 15, 2004 It amazes me how much is made of the book of Revelations. Could it not simply be the writer was high on ergot ? Smoke some salvia or eat some peyote and you too can see great winged creatures and weird little beasties. I wonder what those that really believe this end times stuff think about other cultures sacred writings. Should they not be given the same level of acceptance ? Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_Freak Posted December 15, 2004 #2 Share Posted December 15, 2004 (edited) welcome to UM, waterjet! christians accept that other religions have their own sacred wrtings, but we just do not accept their beliefs as our own. A LOT of revelations is symbolism, much like the book of daniel, when it speaks about the end times... and about the ergot thing, there's the same possibility of other religions' sacred writing's having been writen by someone on drugs... it's something we'll never know, but we christians have faith that the Bible is true, as any other person of a different religion has faith that their holy book, or whatever it may be, is true. i hope that helped Edited December 15, 2004 by Jesus_Freak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterjet Posted December 15, 2004 Author #3 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Hello J. Freak, I agree that many sacred writings were or could have been realized under the influence of drugs. I disagree that all Christians believe some things can be attributed to symbolism. There are those that do not. Yes, UM seems to be a fun place to explore. Waterjet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_Freak Posted December 15, 2004 #4 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I never said that... i know some christians think that every word of the Bible should be taken literally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley-Star*Child Posted December 16, 2004 #5 Share Posted December 16, 2004 It amazes me how much is made of the book of Revelations. Could it not simply be the writer was high on ergot ? Smoke some salvia or eat some peyote and you too can see great winged creatures and weird little beasties. I wonder what those that really believe this end times stuff think about other cultures sacred writings. Should they not be given the same level of acceptance ? Why not? 405830[/snapback] The Book of Revelation wasn't an acid trip. (maybe those on acid just see more than what is more than humanly possible anyway ). The way angels are described there are more like how they really are (when they aren't appearing human) like the 4 fixed sign Cherubim (which encompassed the signs of Taurus - the one with the bull head, Leo - the one with the lion head, Scorpio - the one with the eagle head (there are 3 symbols of Scorpio, the eagle/pheonix being the symbol of the highest good, the serpent in the middle, and the scorpion the lowest evil) and Aquarius - the human head). They really DO look like that. They also appear like that in Ezekial. If you know anything about astrology you would know what the properties of these signs are. It was said that satan was of the highest order of Cherubim (but he's like one of the ONLY ones which went bad, the rest are still Holy). And the four fixed signs which they respresent show the 4 evils of this world. Taurus - money/greed, Leo - pride and arrogance (which it was said that was the cause of satan's fall) kings and kingdoms are also ruled by Leo it should be noted, Scorpio -sex, death, revenge (in this sense, sex IS death (the French even call it 'the little death). It was sex which gave death to Adam, it is both sex and death which separates humanity from those in Heaven because they neither have sex nor die - satan as I've said before, is himself a scorpio), and Aquarius - rebellion, science, and the unconventional. These four themes play out the greatest of sins. These are the bad traits of the signs howevere, and every signs has both a good and a bad side, as with everything. These four signs, being the four fixed signs, also represent obviously the four elements, Taurus - Earth, Leo - Fire, Scorpio - Water, and Aquarius - Air. It should also be noted that the abyss on the Earth is said to be at the bottom of the ocean. Now, on top of that, Daniel also saw the end, much like Revelation, Enoch saw the end and he was in the beginning (Genesis time), etc. The themes he saw there are right, and a correct 'revelation' of what is to come. Paul, ALSO saw the end, but the book was thrown out because the themes were too harsh. However, originally, Paul's Apocalypse was considered before Peter's, but Peter's won out. So, don't hold your breath, it's all true . However, you can believe as you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley-Star*Child Posted December 16, 2004 #6 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I never said that... i know some christians think that every word of the Bible should be taken literally... 405938[/snapback] It should be taken literally. Why does everyone insist on seeing Heaven and those in it in human terms. It is beyond the human. Jesus Himself said that everyone was blind. blind in the sense that they can't see (and/or understand) Heaven, and anything beyond this world. Open your eyes - and your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_Freak Posted December 16, 2004 #7 Share Posted December 16, 2004 well, you do know we were made in God's own image... if something is made in something's image, it's going to look just like it right? well, haveing said that, dontcha think God looks kinda human? Yes, He's gonna be shining brighter than the sun when we see Him, but we look like Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley-Star*Child Posted December 16, 2004 #8 Share Posted December 16, 2004 And don't tell astrology is 'bad' astrology was accepted until Austine got ahold of things. Go look at the old cathedreals they have the signs of the zodiac on them. The 8th Heaven has the Zodiacs and the 9th the HOUSES of the Zodiacs (which is something ONLY used in astrology called ths rising sign and chart wheel). On top of that it was taught by one of the angels (who, by the way, before their fall they were in Heaven and were Holy angels, they didn't 'rise up out of hell'), it was a secret of Heaven, that is why they got in trrouble for it. That and people started worshipping these stars instead of God. God made the Zodiac, and God made astrology. Anyway, I've said all this before, but I'm just recapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley-Star*Child Posted December 16, 2004 #9 Share Posted December 16, 2004 well, you do know we were made in God's own image... if something is made in something's image, it's going to look just like it right? well, haveing said that, dontcha think God looks kinda human? Yes, He's gonna be shining brighter than the sun when we see Him, but we look like Him. 406045[/snapback] Yes, God does have a human face (and contrary to what someone else said on here, He DOES have a voice). That doesn't mean all the angels do, but they can all appear human. However, God is not human, God is God. Angels, also are a separate creation made before humans, and are therefore also, not human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley-Star*Child Posted December 16, 2004 #10 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Humans are mortal, they perish and die, those of Heaven do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat_Kloud Posted December 16, 2004 #11 Share Posted December 16, 2004 If humans die and go to heaven that makes them immortal right? I'm Aquarius. O.O Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat_Kloud Posted December 16, 2004 #12 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Hey so what is everyone's sign in here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_Freak Posted December 16, 2004 #13 Share Posted December 16, 2004 i never said angels were human... angels are bodyless, but can take form of stuff... and i'm libra and scorpio... i'm right on a cut-off date, and some places say i'm libra, but others say i'm scorpio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat_Kloud Posted December 16, 2004 #14 Share Posted December 16, 2004 So how do the angels get to where they are? I've heard stories that say Satan was an angel but a fallen one. If God makes angels then did God make Satan? That would be interesting. If God could see the future he would have been able to see that Satan would become what's his face and hey! What if God did it on purpose just to make sure he had a punisher? Lol sorry I'm having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley-Star*Child Posted December 16, 2004 #15 Share Posted December 16, 2004 i never said angels were human... angels are bodyless, but can take form of stuff... and i'm libra and scorpio... i'm right on a cut-off date, and some places say i'm libra, but others say i'm scorpio 406071[/snapback] Ok, yes they aren't human, but they aren't bodiless. The forms talked about in Revelation, etc ARE they purest form. The fact that they can appear human isn't because they lack a body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_Freak Posted December 16, 2004 #16 Share Posted December 16, 2004 God made angels... yes, God made Lucifer.... the most beautiful of angels... lucifer got mad, rebelled, got a large group of angels (1/3 of all of 'em) and God threw them into Hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat_Kloud Posted December 16, 2004 #17 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Why did he rebel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maekrix Posted December 16, 2004 #18 Share Posted December 16, 2004 ...Umm.. so does that mean lucifer is still the most beautiful of angels, or is he all twisted-demonish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat_Kloud Posted December 16, 2004 #19 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Ooh, Hot evil guys. Lol. *Pictures Sephiroth form Final Fantasy as the devil* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maekrix Posted December 16, 2004 #20 Share Posted December 16, 2004 The only Final Fantasy I've ever played is the really old one for the ORIGINAL gameboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat_Kloud Posted December 16, 2004 #21 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Hey Maekrix, I read your info and I was wondering- do you want to read a fantasy/sci-fi book [or parts of it] and tell me if you think it's good or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_Freak Posted December 16, 2004 #22 Share Posted December 16, 2004 haha, well, satan is a diseiver, and he is an angel, so he can change form... but he rebeled because he was jealous of humans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat_Kloud Posted December 16, 2004 #23 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I would be jealous of humans too, man. I would hate to be immortal. It's gotta be the worst thing ever. I can't believe in heaven just because of that. I figure everything has some sort of circle to it and never ends... heaven, to me, seems to be a place where life completely ends. Ah screw it, back to Satan. So why would be jealous of humans make God kick his butt into Hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley-Star*Child Posted December 16, 2004 #24 Share Posted December 16, 2004 (edited) So how do the angels get to where they are? I've heard stories that say Satan was an angel but a fallen one. If God makes angels then did God make Satan? That would be interesting. If God could see the future he would have been able to see that Satan would become what's his face and hey! What if God did it on purpose just to make sure he had a punisher? Lol sorry I'm having fun. 406075[/snapback] Yes, satan was one of the highest angels, God's favorite to be exact, but because of his own pride, he tried to exalted himself above God. So he got cast out. I wrote about this before. In Revelation in the part about the war on Heaven where it talks about the dragon who is the accuser who accuesed the angels bretherin (bretherin to the angels IS angels, not humans) night and day, and then was cast down to the Earth where it then says 'Woe to the Earth for the dragon has gone down to you' this is talking about when God sent satan HERE, as the accuser of HUMANS. He was also made 'ruler of this world'. Yes, God would have known that satan would fall, but God said Himself that 'no one is at war with Me'. The war in Heaven was to do with angels, because the dragon was accusing angels day and night and contributing to the one thrird of Heaven falling. He is also the tempter. He tempts and then accuses you. This is his job. And he is now bound to the Earth for his pride. If humans die and go to heaven that makes them immortal right? I'm Aquarius. O.O Lol. Yes, if you go to Heaven you would become immortal. That is what they mean by 'everlasting life'. Adam orignally wasn't created to die, he was made immortal, but because of his sin through Eve (and God said, he would made a wife for Adam to bring death to him and her name would be Eva which means 'Mother' - this again shows how sex equates with death, so yes, he knew it would happen. He then went on to say that he created Adam to 'see who among his race would love or Abhor Me' thereby showing how this world is a test, a test, to a certain degree of devotion. This happened after satan's fall. And, through satan's jealousy over God's new creation which seemed to have everything, he tempted Eve, and was thrown out of Heavn along with them. Satan (whose original name was Satanail) helped create Eden, he planetd the vine tree. The vine (wine) cause forntication, murder, drunkeness, etc, but can also be Holy (like Church uses). When Noah got off the Ark he found a vine tree lying dead on the floor and he asked whethere he should plant it or not (knowing from Enoch it's history, and from whom it was planted). He was told to plant it for good qwill come from it, but to beware for there is still evil in it, then it went on to say about the murder, fornication, and all the things it causes, and converseley it's Holy use as said above). I have Auqarius in my chart btw And Pisces. I tend to go on the entire chart, not just part of it. Edited December 16, 2004 by Ashley-Star*Child Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley-Star*Child Posted December 16, 2004 #25 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I would be jealous of humans too, man. I would hate to be immortal. It's gotta be the worst thing ever. I can't believe in heaven just because of that. I figure everything has some sort of circle to it and never ends... heaven, to me, seems to be a place where life completely ends. Ah screw it, back to Satan. So why would be jealous of humans make God kick his butt into Hell? 406109[/snapback] The Earth is satan's hell, until the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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