1528 replies to this topic

[bee]

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bless Edgar Mitchell for going public


He's done his bit for truth....and I'm sure I'm not alone in thanking him for it.

As I've said before I don't think he would have gone public with all this unless he was very sure of the things he talks about.

He is a man who deserves respect.

For his accomplishments and his bravery for speaking out....

And on that note...goodnight all.

x

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[psyche101]

mcrom901, on 19 November 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

'he can't implicate nasa due to his nda.... but he's allowed to blow the whistle on the government'

All "whistleblowers" for want of a better word, proclaim they could not speak out because of non disclosure agreements. I have never seen Edgar Mitchell imply that he is restricted about speaking his mind by and NDA, nor does he seem to be stifled in any way. As close as one can imagine is NASA saying they do not support his views, which is pretty benign.
Has Ed Mitchell ever stated he is restricted by such an agreement? I have never seen such, I have only seen others assume this could be the case.

[booNyzarC]

quillius, on 19 November 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

although he does suggest 'having SEEN direct evidence' does he not? at very least he was shown photos, so lets not debate whether photos are evidence or not...

He suggests that he has seen something that he considers to be evidence, though he doesn't really go into any measure of detail about what exactly that was.  He also talks about things that are in the public record, including photos.  So what exactly is it that he is referring to when he mentions evidence?  I don't know what it is, but I do know that when he was asked "what do they look like?" he responded with "Well, you've seen the pictures... etc..."  Doesn't that suggest the possibility that the only "evidence" he is talking about is the very same "evidence" that the rest of UFOlogy touts around?

quillius, on 19 November 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

dont you find it strange Boon that someone of Dr Edgars intelligence and scientific methodology would be so easily fooled?

I really dislike the phrasing of this.  I don't think I've ever said that Dr. Mitchell was "fooled" by anyone, and if I've given that impression it wasn't intentional.  He has spent quite a bit of time with several other Disclosure Project and general UFO witnesses including the crew from Rendlesham, the pilot from the Tehran incident, Callahan from the JAL incident, Roswellites, General de Brouwer from Belgium, Phoenix Lights witnesses including Fyfe Symington, and several other people from several other cases.  Many of these people have seen and experienced things which are perplexing to say the least.  Believing their testimonies isn't that difficult for the most part, and I think the majority are being sincere when they describe the memories of their experiences.

It's the conclusions which have been reached from the memories of those experiences that I have issue with, and that I think Dr. Mitchell has chosen for whatever reason to adopt those conclusions without applying sufficient skepticism.  That has nothing to do with his intelligence, and probably everything to do with his trust in the sincerity of these various people; which is a trust that I don't think is misplaced, but the assumptions drawn from the whole thing seem often misguided.

quillius, on 19 November 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

anyway I prob wont be back until tomorrow, I will have dug up some of my previous research into Edgar.....

Take care q, hope you have a great night.

quillius, on 19 November 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

looking forward to some of Psyche's input a little later......

I'm always looking forward to that myself, and from the looks of it you won't be dissatisfied!

[TheMacGuffin]

booNyzarC, on 19 November 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

Translation:  "I'll never admit that I was wrong even though everybody already knows it, and I'll get mad at anyone bringing it up from now on."  

No, that's your translation, buster.  In my translation, you and your friend Oberg simply did not want to concede even one of the points I made.  That's how it looks to me.

In addition, Oberg doesn't like it when I point out that other whistle blowers at NASA contradict what he says all the time, and state categorically that there has been a big UFO cover up at the agency for decades.

Nor does Oberg like to respond when I point out flaws in his descriptions and explanations of various UFO cases, including Gemini 4, Gemini 11 and Skylab.

In truth, I am just tired of spending all my time looking up videos about Mitchell's statements only to be told that my efforts are of no value at all.  So next time, Boon, if you want to talk about this subject any further then you can look them up.

I am sick of jumping through hoops only to get the finger for my trouble.  That's what it feels like to me.

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 20 November 2012 - 12:41 AM.

[booNyzarC]

TheMacGuffin, on 20 November 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

No, that's your translation, buster.  In my translation, you and your friend Oberg simply did not want to concede even one of the points I made.  That's how it looks to me.

Oh, it's getting serious now.  Bringing out the big guns and calling me buster.  I wonder if bucko,or the endearing sit on it Potsie will be coming out soon too?

Well you're absolutely right about one thing MacG.  It is indeed my translation.  The reason I give that translation is very simple.

With all due respect, you claimed that Edgar Mitchell has stated that NASA was involved in a coverup.  You produced quotes and videos which you claimed supported your original claim, but not even one of them delivered the goods.  As if it couldn't get any worse, contradictory evidence directly from Dr. Mitchell himself fully contradicts and refutes your original claim.  Add onto this the fact that today isn't the first time we've had this discussion, and you were just as wrong back then as you are now...

But you still refuse to acknowledge that you were conveying baseless and unsupported misinformation, and you get mad about it when people point this out.


Translation:  "I'll never admit that I was wrong even though everybody already knows it, and I'll get mad at anyone bringing it up from now on."  

TheMacGuffin, on 20 November 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

In addition, Oberg doesn't like it when I point out that other whistle blowers at NASA contradict what he says all the time, and state categorically that there has been a big UFO cover up at the agency for decades.

Nor does Oberg like to respond when I point out flaws in his descriptions and explanations of various UFO cases, including Gemini 4, Gemini 11 and Skylab.

James isn't the one to shirk away from such things.  From what I've seen, he confronts them head on.  Of course that won't deter you from attempting to smear him with any opportunity you can get.  Good luck with that MacG, I think you're outgunned.

TheMacGuffin, on 20 November 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

In truth, I am just tired of spending all my time looking up videos about Mitchell's statements only to be told that my efforts are of no value at all.  So next time, Boon, if you want to talk about this subject any further then you can look them up.

I don't think anyone said that your videos were without value, they just didn't support the argument that you claimed they support.  Not a single one of them has Dr. Mitchell, in his own words, saying that he believed that NASA was part of a coverup.  Why did you post them in an effort to support your original claim when they offer nothing to legitimize your claim?  Might I add that when you were presenting them, it was with an extremely pompous tone.  I suggest that the next time you want to be pompous, you may want to make sure that you're right about what you're saying and that the evidence you're presenting in an effort to support your position actually does support it.

TheMacGuffin, on 20 November 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

I am sick of jumping through hoops only to get the finger for my trouble.  That's what it feels like to me.

I'm sorry that you feel that way MacG, but nobody is giving you the finger for your trouble.  You're being run over the coals for misrepresenting the statements of an astronaut and refusing to acknowledge that your original claim was erroneous in the face of non-existent supporting evidence and irrefutable contrary evidence, but you have only yourself to blame for that.

Cheers.

[TheMacGuffin]

booNyzarC, on 20 November 2012 - 01:12 AM, said:

Oh, it's getting serious now.  Bringing out the big guns and calling me buster.  I wonder if bucko,or the endearing sit on it Potsie will be coming out soon too?

Why did you post them in an effort to support your original claim when they offer nothing to legitimize your claim?  Might I add that when you were presenting them, it was with an extremely pompous tone.  I suggest that the next time you want to be pompous, you may want to make sure that you're right about what you're saying and that the evidence you're presenting in an effort to support your position actually does support it

I don't think Oberg or any of the other "skeptics" on here have me "outgunned", and in fact I have proved him wrong on a number of cases, shown him to be outright deceptive.  I would add intentionally and consciously deceptive.  I know it, he knows it, and he knows that I know it.  

I have never been pompous to anyone either.  Sarcastic, yes, but never pompous.  

And as Richard Nixon always said, when I called you that name I meant it in the "very best sense of the term".  LOL

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 20 November 2012 - 02:01 AM.

[MistyW]

I think it's a bit difficult to jump to conclusions right away. If there were aliens I think they would be somehow contacting us by now.

[psyche101]

bee, on 20 November 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

bless Edgar Mitchell for going public


He's done his bit for truth....and I'm sure I'm not alone in thanking him for it.

As I've said before I don't think he would have gone public with all this unless he was very sure of the things he talks about.

He is a man who deserves respect.

For his accomplishments and his bravery for speaking out....

And on that note...goodnight all.

x

.

[The Unseen]

Hey Nice videos,Hard to tell  but.........Could be UFO's.

[TheMacGuffin]

The Unseen, on 20 November 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:

Hey Nice videos,Hard to tell  but.........Could be UFO's.

I don't now if they all are, but there are some that have no satisfactory explanation including Gemini 4, Gemini 11, Apollo 7, 8, 11, 14, and Skylab.  

We do have a lot of evidence from Mitchell and many others that a NASA cover up has been going on for quite some time, and as John Schuessler said, it's astronauts were not even supposed to discuss UFOs.

You can plainly see that those who did got slapped down very hard.

That's Oberg's job, and I'm not kidding in the least when I say that.  It should be obvious after all these years that it is his job, and he will do or say just about anything to get it done.  That doesn't phase me, however, because I know enough to point out quite a few cases where he's wrong.

[booNyzarC]

TheMacGuffin, on 20 November 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

We do have a lot of evidence from Mitchell and many others that a NASA cover up has been going on for quite some time

Are you ever going to stop propagating this lie about Mitchell's stance?  Jesus MacGuffin.  I really don't get you sometimes.

[TheMacGuffin]

booNyzarC, on 20 November 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

Are you ever going to stop propagating this lie about Mitchell's stance?  Jesus MacGuffin.  I really don't get you sometimes.

No, I'm not going to stop, not when he's on records saying that some people involved with NASA and the moon landings have information about contact with aliens.

He didn't say that EVERYONE in the organization knew, just like everyone in the government doesn't know, so I will keep saying this until I am convinced otherwise.

I really am tired of discussing it, and I suggest that you contact Edgar Mitchell himself if you want him to clarify his remarks.  Stop blaming ME for simply posting what he said.

[psyche101]

TheMacGuffin, on 20 November 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

No, I'm not going to stop, not when he's on records saying that some people involved with NASA and the moon landings have information about contact with aliens.

He didn't say that EVERYONE in the organization knew, just like everyone in the government doesn't know, so I will keep saying this until I am convinced otherwise.

I really am tired of discussing it, and I suggest that you contact Edgar Mitchell himself if you want him to clarify his remarks.  Stop blaming ME for simply posting what he said.

That is the purpose of the Lisa Bonnice interview regarding the Kerrang Radio interview. So that Ed gets the story out straight once and for all. That interview had all sort of misinformation in it according to Dr Mitchell. I doubt anybody thinks Edgar Mitchell is a skeptic, far from it, but the media has been saying NASA is involved, not Edgar, and that is no doubt Chinese whispers regarding his previous employer. That seems really quite clear.

Quote

In the wake of that flap, the American astronaut set the record straight in an interview with Lisa Bonnice, host of BlogTalkRadio’sShapeShifting, saying that though there was indeed a cover-up at Rosewell, NASA knew nothing about it – at least not to his knowledge.
Here’s the full transcript of Mitchell’s discussion:

LISA BONNICE: Dr. Mitchell, thank you for joining me today.
EDGAR MITCHELL: It’s a pleasure. Thank you very much.
LB: As we were mentioning before the show started, you really stirred up a hornet’s nest, strangely enough, and like you said, you’ve been saying this for years.
EM: I don’t know what really got things stirred up, perhaps it was the Larry King show. I don’t know.
LB: Could be. But basically people are freaking out that you were aware of several UFO visits.
EM: That’s not quite right. You use that in the plural. I was talking about the Roswell incident, the Roswell visitation primarily, but there have been many others that have been reported that I have no personal awareness of but that was the one that I was really talking about.

I think the above is pretty straightforward? His stance according to Edgar is:

Quote

EM: I totally agree with that. It’s about time and if indeed, as we now believe, we’re not alone in the universe and there are other species and intelligent species throughout the universe, and the universe is much bigger than we thought it was, this is good knowledge. It’s important knowledge.

This 2008 interview outdates all claims made by others on Dr Mitchell's behalf. He specifically excludes NASA. If the above is not enough, I am not sure how the following does not cement Dr Mitchells position that NASA have nothing to do with any of this.

Quote

LB: What do you think of NASA’s statement that “Dr.Mitchell is a great American but we don’t share his opinions”?
EM: I can understand if they think I was attributing anything to the NASA organization, or deriving anything from the NASA organization, they can certainly say that. And it’s true because none of my experience or what I said relates to NASA at all.

There is not a lot of wiggle room there.

[Hazzard]

I actually thought that Dr. Mitchell claimed that NASA was part of a cover-up.  I stand corrected.

Thanks for posting, psyche and boon.

[TheMacGuffin]

psyche101, on 20 November 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

That is the purpose of the Lisa Bonnice interview regarding the Kerrang Radio interview. So that Ed gets the story out straight once and for all. That interview had all sort of misinformation in it according to Dr Mitchell. I doubt anybody thinks Edgar Mitchell is a skeptic, far from it, but the media has been saying NASA is involved, not Edgar, and that is no doubt Chinese whispers regarding his previous employer. That seems really quite clear.

There is not a lot of wiggle room there.

As to whether NASA as a whole knew about Roswell, I doubt it since that happened eleven years before it even existed.  Whatever happened at Roswell was strictly a military operation.

I would go further and add that at the time Mitchell was in NASA, Roswell was hardly known about anywhere.  Even though it was his hometown, Mitchell had to go around and ask the "old timers" if the story was true, but this was after he left NASA in 1972.

That much we do agree on.

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 20 November 2012 - 09:56 AM.