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Betty Hills Star Map


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#1    Mystify

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Posted 07 March 2003 - 04:52 PM

                                                  Opinions welcome as to the authenticity probabilties of this map....
Very interesting.

http://www.paranormalnews.com/article.asp?...p?ArticleID=566                                                  

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#2    Halo_Jones

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Posted 07 March 2003 - 05:17 PM

                                                  I love the Paronomal News wub.gif
Yes Mystify, Very intresting story.                                                  


#3    Althalus

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 07:13 PM

                                                  given that there is only one set of stars that match the map that Betty drew, and the fact that Zeta Reticuli was not known back then, I would say that something went on at that time, or how else would Betty know about it?                                                  

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#4    Loco

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Posted 10 April 2003 - 12:36 PM

                                                  Totally agree with Althalus, don't think that this is just some coincedance or elaborate hoax!

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#5    Illumin8

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 03:31 PM

                                                  Hmm, if that is a trade route then it would seem probable to me that solar systems housing life forms nine times out of ten revolve around yellow suns, unless of course the green sun system just holds valuble resourses for our fellow ET's.                                                  

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#6    Sidhe

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Posted 13 April 2003 - 03:21 AM

                                                  Just to throw this in here.. the fact that the starmap might align with a real set of stars doesn't prove its reality.  There are several explanations for this fact that don't include aliens on other planets.

It *could* be a really really lucky guess.  I for one am not sure how exactly the starmap fits the stars it is supposed to.  If it's off by a bit, how much is it off by?  Or is it exact?  You would expect it to be pretty close to exact up on the alien's wall, but Ms. Hill had to copy it out so there has to be error.. how much error?  I need to know that bit of info.. the reason I need to know is you want to rule out the "helping hand" that people can give when they look at data, so the school teacher may have moved things where they ought to go, etc., while Ms. Hill's map might actually have been much less precise.

And then there are other explanations too.. if you are extremely religious, you'll see the map as an effort by the devil to get you to believe something that is contrary to your religion.  There is at least as much reason to believe that is true, for a myriad of religions, btw! as it is that the Hills actually experienced what they thought they did.

Well that's two.. of course the favorite of skeptics is that they hoaxed it, so there is three.

Then there is the idea of the "collective unconscious" or contact with something called the "akashik records".. so the journey they had has a metaphorical and spiritual significance, but no real aliens were harmed in the filming of their memories..

I concede that all of these alternate explanations add another level of complexity to the story.

I happen to believe that the Hills did experience something.  I don't think they were hoaxers.  But beyond that it gets a little harder.. only a little, however.                                                  


#7    Ozmeister

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 02:56 PM

QUOTE (Althalus @ Apr 9 2003, 08:13 PM)
given that there is only one set of stars that match the map that Betty drew, and the fact that Zeta Reticuli was not known back then, I would say that something went on at that time, or how else would Betty know about it?

I agree........being a scientist you would think that I would the first to say it's all bunkum. I can tell you now that Betty Hill's "Starmap" can be confirmed via computer generation of the starmap in question......whilst her map was hand drawn, it is still a fairly accurate depiction of the stars, as seen from Zeta Reticuli.

Actually Athalus, Zeta Reticuli was a known star at the time, but only to astronomers, not to the general public or UFO researchers.

In fact, the Zeta Reticuli system consists of 2 stars, separated by about 9000AU. Zeta 1 Reticuli is a star about 91% the diameter of the Sun, 93% of the mass and 79% of the luminosity. Zeta 2 Reticuli is about the same size, slightly less massive (99%) and slightly brighter (102%) than the Sun. Both stars have about 65-75% of the metals (elements heavier than Hydrogen and helium) that the Sun has and are around 7-8 billion years old. They belong to the old (thick) disk population of stars. Both are of spectral class G2, same as the Sun. Both stars are in a true binary system.....their space velocities and direction of motion are the same.....orbiting one another in a period of around 500,000 years or so. From observations made in 1978, it was thought that a planet of around Jupiter's mass orbited around Zeta 2 at around the distance of Mars (1.54AU), but later (more accurate) observations have not found the object. A later observation (1996) was thought to show a Saturn-sized planet in a close orbit around Zeta 2, but it was later refuted..... possibly caused by pulsations in the atmosphere of the star. Either star would be a suitable site for an Earthlike planet (in Zeta 2's case, discounting the close orbiting gas giant). Both stars are about 39.4 light years from Earth (Zeta 2 being the furthest of the two) and can be seen, unaided, in the night sky.

The two stars are also on the list of systems that will be imaged by the TPF (Terrestrial Planet Finder) which is to be launched around 2015. So, when the TPF finally takes a look at the two stars, we will see whether there are any Earthlike planets there.




#8    Frigga

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 04:06 AM

Bogus map. meaningless.
When ever you hear 'Rael' or 'Zeta' in the same or simular breath it should be approached with much hesitance and speculation.
The Gestio (grey's) do not come from Zeta Reticuli(a).
The Raelian's are an Earth cult and are showing signs of going in the same direction of Heaven's gate since nothing they've asserted so far has been accurate or come to pass.




#9    Frigga

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 04:16 AM

Edit; removed redundant quote

I've spoken to Geoff Marcy about systems like that several months ago. Although he was exclusively looking at young/medium aged stars, via transit methods, he humored me and used his lenstime to look at other systems I suggested.  He wasn't able to view the southern hemisphere systems but he's found some pretty amazing things in the direction I suggested. He was very convinced that narrowing his criteria to young/medium stars would yeald something quickly, he was very surpised and joviant that he changed his scope.

Edited by Magikman, 06 May 2004 - 04:25 AM.


#10    Ozmeister

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 04:26 AM


Ah, but the map is not bogus grin2.gif

Just because some French wacko who's on a "LSD trip" wants to conduct himself as the leader of a exceptionally dubious "starcult", then that's fine by me. That he and others have linked the stars with their movement is very unfortunate.

That's why you have to be very discriminating in winnowing out mindless garbage like that from any other claims being made. Idiots like them give the whole area of study a very bad reputation.

It seems to be a common factor in UFO cults that the moment anything which might sound good as part of their cult appears, they co-opt it for themselves. The original case had absolutely nothing to do with the Raelian Movement, except in the minds of those that follow it. The Greys that abducted the Hills never mentioned once to them who they were, only showed Betty a starmap and pointed out where the ship they were in came from.....even then the Grey speaking to Betty was not completely forthcoming, only saying that their homeworld was one of the stars on the map.

Back to the map.......if you're familiar with stellar cartography and have a good grounding in astronomy, it's not a hard thing to do, to place the stars surrounding our Sun in their true space positions.....out to any arbitrary distance. You can also use these methods to look back towards the Sun from any position you like, from the perspective of another star.

The two stars of Zeta Reticuli have a perspective which uncannily matches the drawings of the starmap that Betty recalled having been shown. All the stars are in their correct relative positions. It's neither a very lucky guess or anything else of the sort. What she drew is what she was shown, which lends a lot of credence to her account.

Edited by Magikman, 06 May 2004 - 05:01 AM.


#11    Ozmeister

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 04:33 AM



Actually, unless Geoff and Mark have changed their methods of looking for extrasolar planets, the method that they have been using for the past 9 years is the doppler shift method. Transit detection methods only work if the orbital plane of the system in question is close to, if not, edge on to us.

Quite a few interesting studies have been made of some "Hot Jupiters" this way in recent years. The good thing using transits, is that an estimate on the actual size of the planet you're looking at can be made, and therefore a few other characteristics can also be deduced from this. Such as mean density, likely composition and so forth.

Zeta Reticuli would be too far south of his observing position to be seen. He would have to come at least as far south as Mexico City to get a glimpse of the stars. To see them in their glory, he'd be better of coming south of the equator.

Edited by Magikman, 06 May 2004 - 05:01 AM.


#12    Frigga

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 04:53 AM

Last warning Frigga & Ozmeister, stop including the entire text of the message that lies directly above your reply in your post, or the entire post will be deleted from this point on

Like I said he wasn't able to view the southern hem. star systems. he is using the transit system from when I last spoke with him. He mentioned nothing about doppler shifts, we were very specific in our conversation. At exagurated distances you cannot use doppler methods and expect an extremely accurate result. If you're refering to use of a spectrometer that would mainly show content of the star.
You're speaking to twopiter and fourpiter?
I spoke with him about that too, he had either been ready or was just getting ready to release that paper. The names were given to those planets by a young girl, I can't remember her name. I'd have to e-mail him.

Edited by Magikman, 06 May 2004 - 05:00 AM.


#13    Ozmeister

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 05:39 AM

Actually the method is the doppler radial velocity shift method (sorry if I may have misled you there). It's the method he and his group have (or had) been using for the last 9 years. What they do is measure extremely tiny shifts (either towards the blue or red ends of the spectrum) of the absorption lines present in the target star's spectrum. And I mean tiny too........a shift of something like 1 part in 100 million or less. They had the ability to resolve radial velocity changes in the spectrum of a star caused by the pull of a Jupiter sized planet, equating to a velocity of 3m/sec.

The transit method is also a good method too (even amateur astronomers can get in on the act......you only need a scope of around 8-10 inches in size and a CCD camera/autoguider).

I'd doubt the IAU would accept those names for the planets in question. They're quite strict on the criteria as to what name they apply to a celestial object. But I suppose Geoff could try grin2.gif



#14    Athlon64

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 08:44 AM

Yes, in just the same way that SEDNA is not the official name of the Pluto sized object that was discovered recently in our own Solar System.






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