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I have a conection with spirts I think..Help?


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#61    Brian Topp

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:30 AM

Ok,

First, Being Gay and beliving that they have ghosts following them are TWO completely different things. That is like comparing a brick to a rainbow or Heaven is a halfpipe to an orange.

Let's try and focus on the main topic, The person who did a drive by post and not about people being homosexual.

It is easier to claim it is paranormal than taking the hard route and find out what really happened.


#62    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:34 AM

View PostBrian Topp, on 26 May 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

Ok,

First, Being Gay and beliving that they have ghosts following them are TWO completely different things. That is like comparing a brick to a rainbow or Heaven is a halfpipe to an orange.

Let's try and focus on the main topic, The person who did a drive by post and not about people being homosexual.

Not that different...the "pros" said gay was all in the mind, they say ghosts is all in the mind (well, some of them :P ) Goes to show they're not always right. If somebody goes around throwing science in people's faces as part of their argument, they should be reminded that science is divided on this matter and far from united that "it doesn't exist".

I respect your views Brian, just like I respect Coldethyl's and Sakari's - you all dish out some good advice, sometimes - but there's a common misconception here that every single scientist rejects the idea of a soul or life after death, when that's just not true. All any of us can do is form our opinions and beliefs because even science doesn't have the facts.

Edited by Heaven Is A Halfpipe, 26 May 2013 - 12:39 AM.

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#63    Brian Topp

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:50 AM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 26 May 2013 - 12:34 AM, said:

Not that different...the "pros" said gay was all in the mind, they say ghosts is all in the mind (well, some of them :P ) Goes to show they're not always right. If somebody goes around throwing science in people's faces as part of their argument, they should be reminded that science is divided on this matter and far from united that "it doesn't exist".

I respect your views Brian, just like I respect Coldethyl's and Sakari's - you all dish out some good advice, sometimes - but there's a common misconception here that every single scientist rejects the idea of a soul or life after death, when that's just not true. All any of us can do is form our opinions and beliefs because even science doesn't have the facts.

Refering to the ghosts are following them:

but jumping to the deep end with out elimating the possibilities of the cause is the cause of the concern from the skeptic side. I knew a person here that would change to some one who swears to his/her face that she/he can summon demons and ghosts and yet when she/he was taking her medications, she/he acutally hold a conversation straight for more than 5 minutes with out the need to tell me that her/his coat hangers were made of alien parts.

It is easier to claim it is paranormal than taking the hard route and find out what really happened.


#64    Sakari

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:51 AM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 26 May 2013 - 12:34 AM, said:

Not that different...the "pros" said gay was all in the mind, they say ghosts is all in the mind (well, some of them :P ) Goes to show they're not always right. If somebody goes around throwing science in people's faces as part of their argument, they should be reminded that science is divided on this matter and far from united that "it doesn't exist".

I respect your views Brian, just like I respect Coldethyl's and Sakari's - you all dish out some good advice, sometimes - but there's a common misconception here that every single scientist rejects the idea of a soul or life after death, when that's just not true. All any of us can do is form our opinions and beliefs because even science doesn't have the facts.




I think you understand a bit where I come from. If anyone posts " I believe ", I do not argue that at all. It is when people say " I know "...If someone knows, I do expect to see some strong hard evidence backing that up.

I am not sure about what you mean by not all Scientists reject the idea.I have not seen one scientist, or journal, that states they " believe " ghosts or spirits exist. I am pretty sure, anyone that is a actual " scientist ", or " Doctor " of Psychology, states there is no evidence to support that. I really have a hard time giving a person in that profession any credit if they said they think something exists because they believe it.....

Now, I wish I could find this, I have looked numerous times.....Was a few years ago, not sure what I saw it on.

A Psychologist searching for the " soul ".....Was very interesting....So, yes, there are some people researching this.

Edited by Sakari, 26 May 2013 - 01:05 AM.

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#65    Brian Topp

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:51 AM

Well, I am not a "pro", what ever the hell that title is.

Being Gay is not in the mind.

It is easier to claim it is paranormal than taking the hard route and find out what really happened.


#66    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:26 AM

View PostBrian Topp, on 26 May 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

Refering to the ghosts are following them:

but jumping to the deep end with out elimating the possibilities of the cause is the cause of the concern from the skeptic side.

I 100% agree that all the possibilities have to be eliminated. I read a lot of things on here that just come across fake, sensationalised or even deluded but I do believe a small percentage of people experience real things, that can't be explained by science right now. Some of my own experiences, included.

View PostSakari, on 26 May 2013 - 12:51 AM, said:

I think you understand a bit where I come from. If anyone posts " I believe ", I do not argue that at all. It is when people say " I know "...If someone knows, I do expect to see some strong hard evidence backing that up.

I am not sure about what you mean by not all Scientists reject the idea.I have not seen one scientist, or journal, that states they " believe " ghosts or spirits exist. I am pretty sure, anyone that is a actual " scientist ", or " Doctor " of Psychology, states there is no evidence to support that. I really have a hard time giving a person in that profession any credit if they said they think something exists because they believe it.....

A Psychologist searching for the " soul ".....Was very interesting....So, yes, there are some people researching this.

This is a big problem imo because it would suggest you'd not be willing to take anyone's views/theories on board...science isn't in a position to prove anything right now, all it can give is theories. Hell, the big bang is a theory and there's little to no proof that ever happened! I actually found the psychologist study very interesting...it takes about 7 years to become a qualified psychologist here, now that's a LOT of learning about science and the mind! I'm glad you at least acknowledge that well educated people DO research these subjects because you have said before as basis for an argument that since (in your words) nobody of scientific note was bothering to research the area, it should tell people things. Google should be fruitful for different links to doctors and people of that scientific level having their own theories and some not ruling out the possibility.

View PostBrian Topp, on 26 May 2013 - 12:51 AM, said:

Well, I am not a "pro", what ever the hell that title is.

Being Gay is not in the mind.

Professional...I think you knew what I meant. No need to be difficult.

I'm well aware gay is not in the mind. I have plenty of gay friends. The point is, the same people some skeptics hail as could-never-be-wrong "experts" do get things very wrong. They once said being gay was an illness, we've long accepted it isn't. Right now, some of the professionals say anybody who has an experience with a spirit is not mentally sound. Now that's not me saying every single person who has experiences DOESN'T have a mental issue, or that mental illness of this nature doesn't exist, because it probably does, but you can't paint everybody with the same "you're ill or a liar" brush. Particularly when it comes to group experiences.

Anyyyywayyyy, I'm sure we'll all meet in another ghost topic again once day for this little debate (we always do) maybe it'll be more in depth one day. I sharen't be posting here again unless the OP returns :w00t: we all know it'll just turn into classic skeptic versus believer debate that never goes anywhere :yes: you should know Sakari, we've had plenty :tu:

Edited by Heaven Is A Halfpipe, 26 May 2013 - 01:32 AM.

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#67    coldethyl

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:34 AM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 25 May 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

There were people who knew being gay wasn't a mental illness, back when the "professionals" were swearing blind it was. Just because scientists can't prove something (yet), doesn't mean it does or doesn't exist and it's pretty weak to continue to use that line in debates. Doesn't really strengthen your argument.

You missed the point entirely, which was that recommending a counselor or therapist did not mean this 'one hit wonder' poster would be put on drugs automatically.

Also, psychiatry is a work in progress and any good psychiatrist will tell you that.  That is why there are changes to the DSM yearly.  As SCIENCE learns more it changes.

As far as that goes though, hallucinations are still in there as symptoms for a lot of things, since we are speaking of ghosts.


#68    Pod99966

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:54 AM

Yes, thank you coldethyl

Quote

2.5 million: The number of Americans surveyed for prescription drug use from 2001 to 2010

1/5
One out of every five U.S. adults takes drugs to treat some type of mental health condition
22
Percent increase in the number of U.S. adults taking mental health drugs in 2010 compared to 2001
29
Percent increase in the number of women using antidepressants in 2010 compared to 2001
1/5
Proportion of women over the age of 20 who are prescribed antidepressants, like Zoloft and Lexapro
11
Percent of middle-aged women using anti-anxiety medications
5.7
Percent of middle-aged men using anti-anxiety medications
3
Number of people ages 20 to 44 using antipsychotic drugs (like Resperadol) and ADHD medications (like Ritalin) in 2010 for every one person who used them in 2001
100
Percent increase in the number of children under age 10 taking antipsychotic medications
40
Percent increase in the number of girls being prescribed ADHD medications
23
Percent of people in the “diabetes belt” states of Tennessee, Kentucky, Mississippi, and Alabama who are on at least one psychiatric drug

Good thing psycologists can't write prescriptions


#69    Sakari

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:02 AM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 26 May 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

I 100% agree that all the possibilities have to be eliminated. I read a lot of things on here that just come across fake, sensationalised or even deluded but I do believe a small percentage of people experience real things, that can't be explained by science right now. Some of my own experiences, included.



I'm glad you at least acknowledge that well educated people DO research these subjects because you have said before as basis for an argument that since (in your words) nobody of scientific note was bothering to research the area,






we all know it'll just turn into classic skeptic versus believer debate that never goes anywhere


I have to hit on those.....

Before we use that in later discussions, it was one Doctor, and I can not find his work anywhere now. And, it was on TV. Science has no interest in ghosts and such, because there is not good evidence to support the funding. I mention this many times ( people think I am being sarcastic ). When people claim poltergeists with a ton of activity, or the ability to summon and such, I always say, with that kind of evidence, a University would easily take note, and jump on board to research. Now, Psychology does research some of this to a point ( possessions, Excorsisms, etc. ), but not the outcome you would like.


On the other thing, I have seen, and have myself, helped people find answers with these " skeptic -vs- believer " things you talk of. You may look at it that way, I look at it as a discussion. This is not a game where we have 2 teams looking for a win, that to me is ridiculous. I am here for the discussions, if they interest me, and if I have nothing better to do.I am not here for a cage match. I like to give people facts, and try to put away any " scare tactics " that may be fed to them.

As a matter of fact, I believe Coldethyl this last week, gave information on sleep paralysis to someone whom thought they had a ghost holding them down. After that person read the links, they were thankful to her, and found peace knowing that this was a medical thing, and not something to be afraid of......So, these discussions can lead to good things. And no offense, but I have yet to see someone say they found their answer here, and it was a ghost, etc...

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#70    coldethyl

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:10 AM

View PostPod99966, on 26 May 2013 - 01:54 AM, said:

Yes, thank you coldethyl



Good thing psycologists can't write prescriptions

It's because regular general practitioners have started doing the psychiatrists job for them and writing psych meds.

I know because it happened to my sister and brother in law.

General Practitioners need to refer people to therapists instead of just writing prescriptions but the prescription companies get to them.

And you're welcome, my pleasure.  Glad to educate.


#71    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:41 AM

I will PM my response Sakari as I don't want to see this thread turned into a classic debate. I will say though; I have been personally thanked by somebody from this forum because of the help I offered them and what I offered, appears to have solved their problem. So it's not quite a one way thing as you would have people believe...

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#72    Sakari

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 03:16 AM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 26 May 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

I will PM my response Sakari as I don't want to see this thread turned into a classic debate. I will say though; I have been personally thanked by somebody from this forum because of the help I offered them and what I offered, appears to have solved their problem. So it's not quite a one way thing as you would have people believe...

Answered your PM, I never said it was a one way thing.

Some people use Praying and faith to help them.

Some use Bartenders...


Some times those work, but most of the time they need to get real help.....



PHILADELPHIA (AP) — A couple serving probation for the 2009 death of their toddler after they turned to prayer instead of a doctor could face new charges now that another son has died.
Herbert and Catherine Schaible belong to a fundamentalist Christian church that believes in faith healing. They lost their 8-month-old son, Brandon, last week after he suffered from diarrhea and breathing problems for at least a week, and stopped eating. Four years ago, another son died from bacterial pneumonia.




The "faith healer" parents of an Oregon teenager who died due to a lack of medical care will be required to contact a doctor when any of their other six children are sick for more than one day, according to the terms of their probation.
Russel and Brandi Bellew were sentenced to five years of probation on Tuesday after they pleaded guilty to negligent homicide in the death of Brandi's biological son, Austin Sprout, 16. An autopsy found Austin died of an infection caused by a burst appendix.
The couple, along with their six surviving children, belongs to the General Assembly and Church of the First Born, which eschews modern medicine. The group takes its belief from a New Testament passage in the Gospel of James that says the sick should be prayed over and anointed with oil, according to Rick Ross, an expert on cults.




Yes, we are only talking ghosts, but my example is, facts versus faith......

Anyway, PM answered.

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#73    Pod99966

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 03:41 AM

View Postcoldethyl, on 26 May 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

It's because regular general practitioners have started doing the psychiatrists job for them and writing psych meds.

I know because it happened to my sister and brother in law.

General Practitioners need to refer people to therapists instead of just writing prescriptions but the prescription companies get to them.

And you're welcome, my pleasure.  Glad to educate.

I guess you missed my point. Which is that with that much medication being prescribed, it is likely any 14 y/o telling his/her parents about having fear at night, would very likely end up on some meds.

So, psycologist, psychiatrist, doctor, lawyer, baker, veterinarian..... who ever he/she talks to... they may end up on some kind of mental health drug.

Which I posit, may lower the poster's defences to external attacks from outside forces.


#74    coldethyl

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 05:35 PM

View PostPod99966, on 26 May 2013 - 03:41 AM, said:

I guess you missed my point. Which is that with that much medication being prescribed, it is likely any 14 y/o telling his/her parents about having fear at night, would very likely end up on some meds.

So, psycologist, psychiatrist, doctor, lawyer, baker, veterinarian..... who ever he/she talks to... they may end up on some kind of mental health drug.

Which I posit, may lower the poster's defences to external attacks from outside forces.

Not if he calls an anonymous counseling line.  And it also depends on the parents.  And I believe the whole thing is moot as he apparently was eaten because he hasn't been back.


#75    markprice

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 06:15 PM

View PostSakari, on 25 May 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

I could show you thousands of these.....You must be in one of these cults....



Faith-Healing Parents to Avoid Jail After Teen Dies Trying to ‘Pray Away’ His Burst Appendix


Faith healing is an immensely controversial means of curing peoples’ ailments. Depending on the extent of one’s illness, the practice can be down-right dangerous, particularly when it comes to declining medical care for life-threatening and easily-treatable diseases. Russel and Brandi Bellew of Creswell, Oregon, learned this the hard way after their 16-year-old son died due to a burst appendix last year.
Rather than take their son, Austin, to a doctor or a hospital when his symptoms worsened, the Bellews decided to “pray away” his condition. Now, following his death, they are avoiding jail after admitting that they let their teenager die in an effort to practice their faith healing.


http://www.theblaze....burst-appendix/

Cult and faith healing is your answer to an epidemic of over-prescribed drugs for a generation of children, to see how they turn out? That's not science, it's marketing and abuse in the name of science. I guess we will see the results in another ten years or so, for the ones that did not commit suicide.

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