49 replies to this topic

[ealdwita]

CrimsonKing, on 28 January 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

One of the biggest deity like characters built up in this country is abe lincoln,dont get me wrong he was a decent president just not what they portray him as.

As clearly demonstrated in Spielberg's latest fairy story, sorry, film!

[CrimsonKing]

Agreed ealdwita,a few years back some old writings of his were found and the mainstream media and the "History Peddlers" were outraged that the truth was getting out about him.I remember they where having a huge argument about if the general public should be allowed to read it or not lol.I already knew the truth about him from old books and talking to my great grandparents as a child about historical topics.

[AsteroidX]

Im focusing my reading on the time period 1774-1775. The 2 years before the Revolutionary War. Its a goldmine of whats going wrong today and how they saw to rebel against it.

And extremely educational as well.

[ealdwita]

CrimsonKing, on 28 January 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

Agreed ealdwita,a few years back some old writings of his were found and the mainstream media and the "History Peddlers" were outraged that the truth was getting out about him.I remember they where having a huge argument about if the general public should be allowed to read it or not lol.I already knew the truth about him from old books and talking to my great grandparents as a child about historical topics.

From what I understand, the film also completely misrepresents the causes (and after-effects) of the American Civil War. (I'll admit, I haven't yet seeen the film, but I intend to do so)

[CrimsonKing]

ealdwita, on 28 January 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

From what I understand, the film also completely misrepresents the causes (and after-effects) of the American Civil War. (I'll admit, I haven't yet seeen the film, but I intend to do so)

I havnt seen it yet either dont really need to,seeing how hollywood has gushed and raved about it i already know its not portrayed accurately.

[ealdwita]

AsteroidX, on 28 January 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

Im focusing my reading on the time period 1774-1775. The 2 years before the Revolutionary War. Its a goldmine of whats going wrong today and how they saw to rebel against it.

And extremely educational as well.

I have a paper I wrote in my files about the British side of the War (military & political), so if there's anything I can help you with in that respect, don't hesitate to ask.

Edited by ealdwita, 28 January 2013 - 09:05 PM.

[Frank Merton]

Abraham Lincoln is a figure respected and taught about around the world.  He was intelligent, principled, a fabulous wordsmith, incorruptible, loyal.

It is not possible, except maybe in graduate school for students becoming Lincoln scholars, to go into every known detail, and, besides, I don't see anything questionable about him even in the details I know of.

So as a choice of someone to use as a model for students to emulate, he seems great.  It is important that students learn to assess figures within their context -- to not judge people outside their culture and time -- and to assess achievements as well as failures, and learn from both.

[CrimsonKing]

Frank Merton, on 31 January 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Abraham Lincoln is a figure respected and taught about around the world.  He was intelligent, principled, a fabulous wordsmith, incorruptible, loyal.

It is not possible, except maybe in graduate school for students becoming Lincoln scholars, to go into every known detail, and, besides, I don't see anything questionable about him even in the details I know of.

So as a choice of someone to use as a model for students to emulate, he seems great.  It is important that students learn to assess figures within their context -- to not judge people outside their culture and time -- and to assess achievements as well as failures, and learn from both.

LOL frank no offense  but here in high schools he is preached about like the 2nd coming of christians jesus,like i said he was a decent pres but nowhere near what he has been preached to be.His ideas have been dramatized into some kind of love story that they were not.The truth can be found just have to dig deep.

[Frank Merton]

Deification of any figure is of course silly, but I still think Lincoln is a good figure for people around the world to emulate and be taught about.  Don't get carried away with the fact that he was human and look at his good qualities.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

I think it's similar with Churchill; some of his opinions regarding the Empire and the way to keep the natives under control were the kind of thing that would have any Politician today hounded out of office, but they were typical of people of his political outlook of his time. And he was hardly a military genius; all too many of the schemes that were his idea (such as the Dardanelles campaign) were fiascos, but none of that alters the fact that he kept Britain above water as the only remaining resistance to the nazis for long enough for Hitler to begin his long process of suicide by invading Russia.

[Frank Merton]

What's more, Churchill recognized the Nazis for what they were early on.

[the L]

History is mother of knowledge.
It helps if you want to study and do scientific work in economy.

But to me, world was less evil place when I didnt know none of history. Its a race between madmen and educated men.

[MiskatonicGrad]

History is important for showing the folly of man. but unfortunetly it too (like most other sciences) has been usurped by the evolution crowd taking away most of it's usefulness. If you really study history with an opened non-agenda mind it will show you we as people (as in the way we act, think, what we hold important) haven't changed to any great degree. sure we have improved our quality of living in some parts of the world but there are people still living in mud huts. IMHO when you start thinking we as a race are more "evolved" then our ancestors you do nothing short of putting shackles on your own mind. look at the history of my country (US) just in the short time we have been here we have went from looking up to the founding fathers as the most enlightened minds walking the planet that came up with system of goverment that was the standard of the world too viewing them as a bunch of racist, bigoted, slave owning buffons that plagerized what the greeks did thousands of years ago. something I preach to my son is people are people no matter what age we are talking about. If you brought a parent from ancient egypt to present day and looked at them and said "teenagers" he or she would look right back at you and say "Don't even get me started".

[Wyrdlight]

From an education/skills perpective.

A high level history education will feature a very large ammount of reasarch, planning and writing as well a good ammount of presentation making and debating.

All of those provide skills which are invaluble in all sorts of careers from marketing to PR and general admin, market research.

Very very very few degrees tie directly to any one career or another.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

Another benefit of studying History is that, as in the case of George Gideon Oliver Osborne,^[1] MP (born Gideon Oliver Osborne, 23 May 1971)^[2] a British Conservative politician, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and Second Lord of the Treasury of the United Kingdom, it can, it seems, get you into perhaps the second most important job in Government in the land, without needing any qualifications or experience at all in the field of Economics. He was given a demyship to Magdalen College, University of Oxford^[2] where he received a 2:1 bachelor's degree in Modern History.