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Who or what created God?


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#91    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:06 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 17 November 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

I can not define soemthing i do not fully understand, some people believe in a GOD, but unlike god, time can be felt and seen, or rather what uses it can be.
"One view is that time is part of the fundamental structure of the universe—a dimension independent of events, in which events occur in sequence."
see the thing is we are talking about how you define it .. not some other people define
coz am having discussion with you .. not them :D still
time started with the big bang .. time did not exist before that
based on what you said " time part of universe or dimension " therfore without a universe .. time would not exist at all
honestly i'd think it'll make more sense to say universe " "created " time

Edited by Knight Of Shadows, 17 November 2012 - 07:10 PM.

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#92    freetoroam

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:11 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 17 November 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

see the thing is we are talking about how you define it .. not some other people define
coz am having discussion with you .. not them :D still
time started with the big bang .. time did not exist before that
based on what you said " time part of unviverse or dimension " therfore without a universe .. time would not exist at all
honestly i'd think it'll make more sense to say universe " "created " time
watched a programme once saying that there was no "bang" as there was no sound because of its surrounding, will try and google it, but tired and my full concentration is not here as "Big mommas house" has just started.
I can sort of see where you are coming from with the universe bit, but from my side of the fence, i can not see how the universe could have come before time....if someting created the universe, it would have taken time to do it.

Edited by freetoroam, 17 November 2012 - 07:12 PM.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#93    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:16 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 17 November 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

watched a programme once saying that there was no "bang" as there was no sound because of its surrounding, will try and google it, but tired and my full concentration is not here as "Big mommas house" has just started.
I can sort of see where you are coming from with the universe bit, but from my side of the fence, i can not see how the universe could have come before time....if someting created the universe, it would have taken time to do it.
there is two kinda of theories about time on the subject .. we just happen to stand on different sides of fence on this :D
perhaps both came at same time .. pehaps but my point was something came along .. or after universe could not have created it

time for my precious sleep have good day or night !

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#94    freetoroam

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:31 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 17 November 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

there is two kinda of theories about time on the subject .. we just happen to stand on different sides of fence on this :D
perhaps both came at same time .. pehaps but my point was something came along .. or after universe could not have created it

time for my precious sleep have good day or night !
here is evening, in TIME night will follow......sort of like what the universe did..after time came along.. :D
have a good night, ;)

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#95    Pupp3t

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:42 PM

View PostOrcseeker, on 17 November 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

You know... It gets deeper than time. You dream and it seems like hours and you could only be sleeping for a couple of minutes. Things like this could be a teller that time is just a concept. I have heard some theories that time varies throughout the universe and certain things within it. Whatever happened to create this universe and what we don't know about it, it might even be incomprehensible, extremely complex.

DeGrasse had an interesting thought. We are all part of the universe. You look out there and think it is the unknown, but it is what we are made out of. In a sense, we are all one.

But I always say this, we could be part of a universe, perhaps that universe could be part of something, maybe even a universe cluster much like galaxies. But what about the container of those universe clusters, who knows how complex and big things truly are.

It kinda makes you think, we are so small and insignificant. It is quite humbling. To me, it makes you think nothing's impossible. Look to your highest goal in life and say, you know what, that's not too far away. Whether it be president of the USA or creating a great work of art. Just focus on what really matters.

Sorry I'm quite tired so hopefully I put down something understandable and not too of the tangent of what we are discussing here. Just saying that there's no ditch too deep, or no platform too high. We all start from nothing, it just depends what you make of it.

To me, that is God. Not an entity, or an object. God is everything that exists and everything you make of it. God is the universe. We are that universe. We are God.

  Okay, this is pretty deep. God is more than what we perceive him to me.
Maybe he isn't something physical, like religion states. He can be something higher than human perception.


#96    freetoroam

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:48 PM

View PostPupp3t, on 17 November 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

He can be something higher than human perception.
Which is not difficult. if there were no humans, would there still be a god? do animals believe in a god, what about plants, actually, any other living thing we share this planet with?

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#97    and then

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:52 PM

I believe what the Bible says.  Beyond that I do not know.  I believe that I exist and I know that I am the product of many, many continuous generations of forefathers who obeyed a biological imperative to reproduce.  And if I exist then something caused that to happen.  The greatest "justification" that I hold for my faith in God is that a text written by 66 different authors over a 2000 year period contains integrity and  continuity of message.  Many, many predictions of future events have borne out the validity of these books.  Ultimately there are 3 kinds of people.  One who have the call to faith.  One who will not believe without proof of their choosing and the last who just don't know and are searching because they feel they HAVE to do so.  If I am correct in my faith then I will be a part of an existence that goes on forever and I will live a happy and productive life forever - always learning, growing and experiencing new realities.  If the Atheist is right then I will never know it.  If I live my life by the tenets of the Bible as best I can - and I mean Christ's truths - then I have lived a life that may have been full of hardship but I have not harmed others intentionally.  The same may be said for people who are Atheists I'm sure.  As humans we cannot grasp eternity, not really.  To be human is to come to an end.  But if we think of our current existence as a soujourn in a strange place and the body as a "vehicle" that allows us to move and be and learn before moving on to the next thing then it all makes much more sense.  I want others to believe as I do because I genuinely feel it is the way to life.  But I would never force it in the smallest measure.

Edited by and then, 17 November 2012 - 08:53 PM.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#98    freetoroam

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

View Postand then, on 17 November 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

I believe what the Bible says.
I believe that I exist and I know that I am the product of many, many continuous generations of forefathers who obeyed a biological imperative to reproduce.  And if I exist then something caused that to happen.
its called evolution and it started well before the bible came along.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#99    White Crane Feather

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:04 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 17 November 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

ummm without the universe .. would there be time ?
There is no time now. It's only a concept created by concious beings. A demention in sequence.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#100    freetoroam

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:19 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 17 November 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

There is no time now. It's only a concept created by concious beings. A demention in sequence.
Concious beings..being humans? and what if there were no humans?

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#101    Orcseeker

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:27 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 17 November 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:


Time moves in mysterious ways. Nothing is as versatile as time. without time, we are nothing. Everything has to travel through time, be it forward, backward or still.
Light travels through time, darkness too.
The deepness is time! Now if we discover where time came from, we may move through it with a better understanding whats around us.

What about black holes? Where time is perceived to be absent. A second here would not exist with a black hole, that concept alone is unbelievable.


#102    Orcseeker

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:31 PM

View PostPupp3t, on 17 November 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:



  Okay, this is pretty deep. God is more than what we perceive him to me.
Maybe he isn't something physical, like religion states. He can be something higher than human perception.

This is possible. Quite frankly if something is capable of creating this universe. The God outlined in the bible does not exist I believe at all, but it may be something we simply could never hope to understand or ever find out.


#103    White Crane Feather

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:14 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 17 November 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:


Concious beings..being humans? and what if there were no humans?
There would still be sequence but no recognition of interval.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#104    White Crane Feather

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:16 PM

View PostOrcseeker, on 17 November 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:



What about black holes? Where time is perceived to be absent. A second here would not exist with a black hole, that concept alone is unbelievable.
Only in preception because we are beings made up of signals. In reality things are still happening. This will be completely prooven if and when hawking radiation is prooven.

Edited by Seeker79, 17 November 2012 - 11:21 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#105    White Crane Feather

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:51 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 17 November 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:


watched a programme once saying that there was no "bang" as there was no sound because of its surrounding, will try and google it, but tired and my full concentration is not here as "Big mommas house" has just started.
I can sort of see where you are coming from with the universe bit, but from my side of the fence, i can not see how the universe could have come before time....if someting created the universe, it would have taken time to do it.
This is because people don't realize that there is no evidence that the vaccum was created at the big bang ;)

Edited by Seeker79, 17 November 2012 - 11:52 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-




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