What if tomorrow....

[Damrod]

I probably know your reaction to the title...but this is not what you might think....

I like to consider myself a “thinker” and a “seeker of knowledge”. I was thinking about all the hype and paranoia about 2012…apocalypse…financial meltdowns, pandemics…etc..etc…etc…and I had a thought.

I like to invite thought and reflection in other people so I came up with a scenario and would like everyone to think about it (the premise) and think about what you would do.

We are entering a “solar maximum” and if you have done any research into it, you may have stumbled upon some of the articles and government studies I did…(no, I wish I would have bookmarked them, but I didn’t…but they are out there). The government did a study into what might happen if we were to take a straight on impact from an extreme “X-class” flare. It turns out it is within the realm of possibility and also within that possibility that it could cause a massive atmospheric EMP that "could" collapse the world’s power grids...cascade effect…taking years…(that’s right…years) to repair and get back into service. That sounds pretty crappy.

Now this is not the only possible calamity so before you disregard the point and tell me that this scenario is unlikely…then substitute it with…pandemic, asteroid strike, nuclear war…name your cataclysm…get the idea?

Are you prepared for this? Emotionally and practically?

What would you do if tomorrow you found out that there wasn’t going to be any or very limited electricity for years…maybe never. What if you found out that now money and gold were worthless? All electronic wealth...poof...gone...killed by the EMP...paper money?...worthless...and you can't eat or clothe yourself in gold and jewelry...nor can you sleep in it or heat it for shelter.

Do you have goods you can let go of that you can use to barter with for food and shelter?

Do you know how to hunt and gather food? Do you know what you can eat and what you can’t? What plants and herbs have medicinal values? Do you know how to make crude penicillin?

Do you know how to tend crops or raise livestock? Do you know how to preserve food by canning, salting or drying? (remember...no refrigerators).

Do you have a practical, valuable, craft or skill? Woodcarving for bowls, plates and spoons…Maybe woodworking or carpentry for building shelters? Do you know how to cut and move trees and timber by strength and sweat alone? Do you know how to make and rig a block and tackle? How about tanning leather and furs…or…very important…spinning, weaving and sewing…(gotta have clothes).

How about fishing?

Think back 180 to 200 years and ask yourself what communities needed…would you have anything to contribute? Or would you be in a bad spot and relying on the kindness of others?

As a side note to all you crafters, tradesmen and artisans…you will need hand powered tools…remember…there isn’t electricity…do you have the tools you need or will you need to barter and trade for them? Or would you expect to have them before such a calamity hits?

This is just an intellectual exercise…I keep seeing all these doomsday scenarios and chicken little theories and thought “hmmm…I wonder…” so there you have it...let's have some fun with this line of thinking too btw....be serious...or be silly, but enjoy the process.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

Edited September 23, 2011 by Damrod

[Clarakore]

I wrote a short story about this very same thing for NPR's three-minute fiction contest so I have thought about this before. If anyone wants to read just ask me to pm. Doubt anyone does but oh well.

In the end humanity goes on and has already been through a lot. Personally to an individual it will be the most tragic thing ever but everything is not just about one person anyways. Will hate to lose my mp3s.

I would not waste a minute worrying about this. Live for today and enjoy it. What will be will be.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I, and other members of my family, would be up that particular creek without a paddle on the grounds we've weak hearts medicated into proper operation. I might fare the best (as it's just arrhythmic rather then damaged) but overly strenuous exercise could be quite bad for my health.

[Damrod]

I wrote a short story about this very same thing for NPR's three-minute fiction contest so I have thought about this before. If anyone wants to read just ask me to pm. Doubt anyone does but oh well.

In the end humanity goes on and has already been through a lot. Personally to an individual it will be the most tragic thing ever but everything is not just about one person anyways. Will hate to lose my mp3s.

I would not waste a minute worrying about this. Live for today and enjoy it. What will be will be.

I'd be interested in reading your story!

But this isn't about worrying or "omg it's the end of the world!"

More like...an intellectual exercise...Here is a problem scenario...how do you lessen it's impact or overcome it...if say... the power grid and associated financial collapse as outlined in the OP were to occur...what would you do, what could you contribute and how would you "wait it out" till the repairs are made? ... (if they can be).

It's a point of curiosity for me and I don't think it hurts to put the scenario out there and have people consider the idea and evaluate their personal part in such a situation. Who knows...maybe if there is calamities...if people have already considered what they could and would be able to do...it might make it less traumatic...well...maybe!

Edited September 24, 2011 by Damrod

[Damrod]

A little info for the discussion...

http://www.futurescience.com/emp/emp-protection.html

Courtesy of another member on another board...

Edit: I'm looking for the Gov study that says what this does not and that is the possibility of an extreme solar flare causing a geomagnetic storm with results like or very similar to an atmospheric nuclear detonation and EMP...

Edited September 24, 2011 by Damrod

[Clarakore]

I imagine surviving by pure thievery through the point of a rifle. If the opportunity arises I would wish to cooperate with others in a commune type society but I doubt my neighbors and community will allow that. Will send story, k.

omg that is a cute little animated gif!

Edited September 24, 2011 by ChristianWitch

[Chimpanzee]

This is just an intellectual exercise…I keep seeing all these doomsday scenarios and chicken little theories and thought hmmm…I wonder… so there you have it...let's have some fun with this line of thinking too btw....be serious...or be silly, but enjoy the process.

I think it will be Armageddon started by the US vs Iran.

My first duty would be to raid the local gun store.

Next I would get some followers (lesser males) and establish my own little kingdom where I am god. We would then wage war to capture all the local females (sorry girls) and wipe out the men. The followers would get 5 wives each and I would take the best 1000.

Next I will spread my influence by expanding my army and conquering new regions. Eventually I would bring in a cult of personality Kim Jong Il style with statues erected of my likeness and I'd pass laws to make people worship me.

When my megalomania gets to much I'll get assasinated and someone else will crown themselves God lol.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Chimpanzee

[Clarakore]

I am already plotting your assassination. What would I do with 1005 wives though?

[Chimpanzee]

I am already plotting your assassination. What would I do with 1005 wives though?

die a happy man lol

[Damrod]

I imagine surviving by pure thievery through the point of a rifle. If the opportunity arises I would wish to cooperate with others in a commune type society but I doubt my neighbors and community will allow that. Will send story, k.

omg that is a cute little animated gif!

Lol...I use this one sometimes too...

[Damrod]

Just a little validation to the scenario and why it might not be such a bad idea to pause and consider the possibilities I offered yesterday...

From http://spaceweather.com/

"SATURDAY X-FLARE: Behemoth sunspot 1302 unleashed another strong flare on Saturday morning--an X1.9-category blast at 0940 UT. NASA's Solar Dynamics Observatory recorded the extreme ultraviolet flash:

The movie also shows a shadowy shock wave racing away from the blast site. This is a sign that the blast produced a coronal mass ejection (CME). The CME isn't heading directly toward Earth, but it might deliver a glancing blow to our planet's magnetic field in the days ahead. Stay tuned for more analysis.

ACTIVE SUNSPOT: New sunspot 1302 has already produced two X-flares (X1.4 on Sept. 22nd and X1.9 on Sept. 24th), can another be far behind? NOAA forecasters put the 24-hour probability at 20%. The sheer size of the active region suggests the odds might be even higher than that:

Each of the dark cores in this snapshot from the Solar Dynamics Observatory is larger than Earth, and the entire active region stretches more than 100,000 km from end to end. The sunspot's magnetic field is crackling with sub-X-class flares that could grow into a larger eruption as the sunspot continues to turn toward Earth."

Edited September 24, 2011 by Damrod

[TheBoar]

love this topic haha and i can take a smugness in knowing id be perfectly fine i grew up on a farm im a keen hunter i no everything that safe to eat along the country side and im a trained carpenter:P so i can just happily live out my days in a log cabin ill invite you all in my colony but you must refer to me as the all mighty saviour then in 2 millenium they will have bibles about me

[Robin_Shadowes]

I'm tired of this incarnation anyway, so I'm prepared to leave this world whatever happens. I couldn't care less if it really is the end or not. Simply not my problem.

[Bavarian Raven]

well if we were to loose almost all electricity and the stuff that goes along with it - expect complete and utter chaos in the larger cities within a fortnight - and within eighteen months a death toll in the tens of millions (canada/US alone). no electricity and the such = no modern farming = no way to transport food = starvation/massive death.

[Tari]

I think it will be Armageddon started by the US vs Iran.

My first duty would be to raid the local gun store.

Next I would get some followers (lesser males) and establish my own little kingdom where I am god. We would then wage war to capture all the local females (sorry girls) and wipe out the men. The followers would get 5 wives each and I would take the best 1000.

Next I will spread my influence by expanding my army and conquering new regions. Eventually I would bring in a cult of personality Kim Jong Il style with statues erected of my likeness and I'd pass laws to make people worship me.

When my megalomania gets to much I'll get assasinated and someone else will crown themselves God lol.

And all this conquering and expanding only 2 die from erectile cancer a few months later what a shame

I on the other hand would as a true Bard, gotten both fat and drunk from entertaining the masses of depressed and frightened people.

Briging joy to young and old, calming their minds and soothing their souls

[Tari]

die a happy man lol

Or nagged to death witch ever comes first

[Damrod]

I grew up as a country boy...on a farm. Tended the crops, raised cattle, horses, chickens...some ducks and a few goats. I hunted and fished every chance I got and spent most of my free summer time in the woods and wilderness. My hobbies are woodcarving and woodworking...and I have all the tools I need...so for me...I'm not too worried about it.

I'm more worried about the panic in others...especially in really big urban populations...I'm pretty sure they would get really ugly.

[Clarakore]

Realistically how many people with skills will flock to the little remaining true wilderness areas? I don't think rugging it out is going to be an easy solution either. In my estimation a village with mechanically inclined people, such as those who can make machines out of wood, will fare better. Where would the optimal location be for such a community?

I also wanted to post I would be a bard but I truly have no talent grr >_< but nice that someone else said it!

Edited September 26, 2011 by ChristianWitch

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

In my estimation a village with mechanically inclined people, such as those who can make machines out of wood, will fare better. Where would the optimal location be for such a community?

Near somewhere with artesian (ie underground and refreshed by rainfall) water. That way no bugger can poison your water supply, or steal it and if there's anything nasty in the air there's a good chance it'd be leached out in the rocks before it gets into the basin. So some sort of farming community (ideally on a flat, raised plain - you can see for miles means you can see trouble coming).

[Clarakore]

What about a city? Can any areas in a city be retrofitted? There is an abandoned bridge in NYC they turned into a park, with a garden and stuff, could that be done on a larger scale?

I think the Amish would fare well too.

[Juuri]

Well, I dunno if I fare I guess we all have to find out about that.

X1.9 Solar flare on video by NASA

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

What about a city? Can any areas in a city be retrofitted? There is an abandoned bridge in NYC they turned into a park, with a garden and stuff, could that be done on a larger scale?

Too much clutter, too many places for outsiders to infiltrate and cause havoc, unoccupied buildings are fire hazards, the rat population would be higher, there'd be too little farmable land as well.

Hard to secure, hard to defend, hard to survive in.

[Damrod]

What about a city? Can any areas in a city be retrofitted? There is an abandoned bridge in NYC they turned into a park, with a garden and stuff, could that be done on a larger scale?

I think the Amish would fare well too.

I agree, the Amish would probably not even notice a blip.

Cities...prob not a good place. As I mentioned, I would expect huge panic and self preservation mode overriding common sense in places like that. Limited resources and more than likely not enough essential skills to go around. Small towns and rural communities would be the way to go.

Though some folks can and could be totally self sufficient...that might get lonely. In a very small community, there would be a nice mix of skills to get everything done that needs to be done yet small enough not to be in competition for resources.

[Damrod]

Bah...are people just too paralyzed and scared to think and plan? Even to poke fun at all the doomsday prophecies?

Kudos to those that have responded...I was hoping to get a mix of humor and actual thought...I guess trying to mix reality and humor doesn't sit well with some...

I think that we are indeed working through some challenging times and people see "doom" all over it...but there is no reason not to have a little "tongue in cheek" here and there...

I also know that, scientifically, we are heading into a solar maximum and with sunspot 1302...anything is possible right here and now...it is massive and could theoretically fire off an x flare that would kill our power grid...nice!

so anywho...stop being a stick in the mud and play with us!

Edited September 29, 2011 by Damrod

[Michelle]

I'm with Wearer of Hats in my situation, I'd be up the creek without a paddle not having my heart meds...otherwise, we would be set to go. We've collected books from local Indians that tell what we can and can't eat in our area and we've got the majority of antiques that would allow us to live comfortably without electicity.

Kudzu has been known as the plant that ate the South, but it is edible and we could turn the tables on it. We might get sick of eating it but we wouldn't starve to death. The river is also close for fishing. My family property has a freshwater spring, that comes out of the mountain not too far from us, which we might have to protect in a time of crisis.

There are a multitude of caves where we could go in case of a solar storm to get away from the heat.

We haven't given any thought to this at all.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Michelle