Ashleen Posted September 26, 2011 #1 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Does anyone know what the real story behind 2012 is? I haven't read many ideas on it, or found one that makes sense. I wanted people's input on what they think is happening and will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensible Logic Posted September 26, 2011 #2 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Does anyone know what the real story behind 2012 is? I haven't read many ideas on it, or found one that makes sense. I wanted people's input on what they think is happening and will happen. The real story is there is no story. The 2012 hoopla revolves around an error and a crackpot. The error was made in syncing the Mayan calendar with our own making it seem like it ends in 2012. More recent Dutch research has corrected those errors so now the Mayan calendar actually ends in 2220. The crackpot was Sitchin. He took the 2012 year and added in his own mistranslations of Sumerian texts to try to show that a supposed planet called Nibiru was going to destroy the Earth in 2012. The only ability he had was to ignore proper translations of the Sumerian texts because they didn't support either his hypothesis or his book sales. As far as Nibiru, while some still believe in this mythical planet, most realize that if such a planet existed it's affect on the Earth would have been noticed long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ether2 Posted September 26, 2011 #3 Share Posted September 26, 2011 The real story is there is no story. The 2012 hoopla revolves around an error and a crackpot. The error was made in syncing the Mayan calendar with our own making it seem like it ends in 2012. More recent Dutch research has corrected those errors so now the Mayan calendar actually ends in 2220. The crackpot was Sitchin. He took the 2012 year and added in his own mistranslations of Sumerian texts to try to show that a supposed planet called Nibiru was going to destroy the Earth in 2012. The only ability he had was to ignore proper translations of the Sumerian texts because they didn't support either his hypothesis or his book sales. As far as Nibiru, while some still believe in this mythical planet, most realize that if such a planet existed it's affect on the Earth would have been noticed long ago. Wow and you call yaself sensible logic... one being it's the end of the world "as we know it"... i think ya need to do some more homework man... good luck love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewatchman7 Posted September 26, 2011 #4 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Wow and you call yaself sensible logic... one being it's the end of the world "as we know it"... i think ya need to do some more homework man... good luck love ok, first and foremost, before you claim he is wrong, your supposed to present a lil thing called an arguement to the table, preferable a structured one, that supports your comments. and two, the bolded section is rubbish, i could say its the end of the world as we know it tomorrow, and my arguement would be as supported as yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiffSplitkins Posted September 26, 2011 #5 Share Posted September 26, 2011 The story - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnomeWatcher Posted September 26, 2011 #6 Share Posted September 26, 2011 The story - Maybe our ancestors did pull that joke, any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensible Logic Posted September 26, 2011 #7 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Wow and you call yaself sensible logic... one being it's the end of the world "as we know it"... i think ya need to do some more homework man... good luck love Here is a post by TheSearcher. In it are links to the research in Dutch and a translation into English: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=165999&view=findpost&p=3240782 This pretty much shows that the Mayan calendar ends a couple hundred years later than what was believed. According to the believers, Nibiru is 5 times the size and 5 times the mass of Jupiter pretty much making it a dwarf star because of the gravity. It is known that Jupiter's gravity has a discernable effect on the entire solar system. A planet/star with that much gravity would have an effect on the solar system that would have been detected years ago. It's affects inside the solar system would include planetary orbits being disrupted. As it approached and/or passed through the asteroid belt, which according to some it has already done, it would have a major effect on the asteroids within it that would be visible by amateur astronomers on Earth. This is besides the fact that it would have been visible because of it's size some time ago. It is, unfortunately for some, not the end of the world. 2012 will come and go with no sign of Nibiru and another year passing with a new one beginning. Before you recommend someone do homework on something like this, you might, I say might, want to stop reading what the fringe authors have to say and glance through something with more substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jugoso Posted September 26, 2011 #8 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Does anyone know what the real story behind 2012 is? I haven't read many ideas on it, or found one that makes sense. I wanted people's input on what they think is happening and will happen. I think the true answer to that is NO. There is no one that knows what significance 2012 holds for civilization. There have certainly been a lot of different theories, some more credible than others, but most lack any definitive scientific proof and therefore are discounted by most people. Most of the theories speak about an "end" to the world order. When I look around at the state of the global economy, the extreme poverty (in both developing and developed countries), the lack of employment, lifestyles that can only be sustained through constant growth, and the political unrest throughout the world, I can honestly say that it looks as if the house of cards could fall at any time. I don´t really see any other solution than some type of re-structuring. But i´m no economist and maybe we can just keep printing money and continue to hope that we can "turn this all around" and create another boom cycle. I just really don´t know how many bubbles we have left! Forget about trying to find any definitive answer from anyone. The question is "what does 2012 mean to you?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damrod Posted September 26, 2011 #9 Share Posted September 26, 2011 In general, they are correct...there is nothing scientifically based to attribute anything special to December 21, 2012...No incoming planets or dwarf stars... However...since I read a lot of philosophy and have been reading into psychiatry and psychology...consider this as a point to ponder when your brain is really bored... Dec. 21, 2012 has already served it's purpose...it has forced literally billions of people to consider a moment in time in the future...a point of focus for a collective consciousness to think about, wonder, fantasize and/or fear...(read Jung if you don't understand the concept of collective consciousness). Incredible amounts of creative thoughts are being focused at this day and as one doctor studying the effects of earth's electro magnetic fields on the brain has theorized..our thoughts really are...to very small degree...entwined and connected...so perhaps we can "make" it meaningful by our thoughts being focused on it... So what does Dec. 21, 2012 mean?... Whatever we make of it...that's what it means and that may well have been the purpose all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted September 27, 2011 #10 Share Posted September 27, 2011 So what you're saying is if we collectively believe in something that belief can have an effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ether2 Posted September 27, 2011 #11 Share Posted September 27, 2011 ok, first and foremost, before you claim he is wrong, your supposed to present a lil thing called an arguement to the table, preferable a structured one, that supports your comments. and two, the bolded section is rubbish, i could say its the end of the world as we know it tomorrow, and my arguement would be as supported as yours. fair comments... some things are'nt on the internet for me to give you evidence, studying the mind abilities will get ya a grasp of what is to come... this involves death/disease anything that effects our lifes will be turned around to benefit all, we have proven this in areas, the first thing ya learn when wanting to make the change on a level that all would want meaning no war poverty etc etc, is that their is a thing called energy, energy is used to run the worlds systems this is understandable to those that raise energy to do their thing with the minds abilities, this energy comes from emotions mostly the emotions we dont like from fear/devastated/trauma all equal emotions which all equal energy needed, thats why ya hear how terroism and what not is designed to put fear into us as it generates energy needed for the worlds systems, thats part of the dampner/conditioning for all when all learn of the energy system... we have proven of late that we are able to reproduce/duplicate this energy required without the emotions we dont like, if we could have this world they way most want without the BS war/poverty etc tommorrow we could have this supply of energy up and running in two weeks... when one learns of the energy system one soon learns of how the emotions/energy are kept up to date as in it's how, this is where one learns of the scripts of life how it all plays out, if ya undestand the cause and effect that Lucid Dreaming (LD) can have in the physical world you will start to pick up on what i'm say'n as LD's are just the schooling of what our dreams do, but when one learns this ya soon learn how it is implemented into our dreams and how the processes all happens and from where the scripts come from, learning this ya soon learn and ask how can ya change that so we can change the energy system, this too we have also changed for the better this will take some time to do but we could start now but it's complicated why we have not, wont be long, then what ya got to ask is is'nt that controlling peoples minds as in our daily lifes Yes but this is a big NO NO, but i'm sure if we come up with away that is like lucky dip so to speak and is saveing lifes and creating a better life for all well i dont know to many that would complian... however if ya know anything about "Higherselfs" as this is the highly sort after area (guide) amongst those that study the minds abilities most will be shown their higherselfs so as to be able to guide them through life, then ya got to ask what about the economy in anything this too has been counted into from stolen TV's/drugs all commodities anything that effects our lifes as a whole as their is an economy in drugs/stolen goods (obviously)... dont want to be controlled/told what to do by ya higherself or the system... Excellent, when ya learn to Love more ya will be at a higher of consciousness which is knowledge therefore ya will know what to do, therefore be released from being controlled by the system (you already are) other than some areas like buying goods etc (economy) ya wont need to be told what to do, because of ya higher in consciousness being aware awake of what to do and being trusted by the system to do this, this is proven, as many are already their... in case ya didnt know we are already Subconsciously ONE with all becomeing consciously ONE with all the more love ya have the more high up the conscuiousness ladder ya go where we are ONE with all this is where the knowing (knowledge) is of what is needed, some argue you will know everything when at this height of consciousness this is proven false and clearly a NO, it is proven impossiable to know everything as some claim it is the goal of life they seem to forget we will still be around in a billion years and still learning, just like mothers intuiition ya feel ya loved ones needs/wants this is being more ONE with them from love which is a higher in consciousness, for example think of a pie chart with a hair (hair line) going from the centre to the outer edge this is all mothers intuition is as in it's percentage of what we can become, doesnt mean ya have to be cuddly cuddly, but ya get the idea of it... as we go along in life we automatically go up the conscious ladder moveing into higher dimensions this is why all the mentall illness at the moment, just as with the hair line pie chart we are being forced by the system to reach out to higher in consciousness in the dimensions we live in (not stopppable thats life) and as we become more ONE we pick up (just like mothers intuition) on everyones problems mainly those in extreme conditions war torn/poverty etc, this is why the world will go with this system to move forward so we dont in these neck of the woods have an upriseing as they have had over their as they produce more energy so their for more switched on as in higher in consciousness being more aware awake they have a bigger hair (percentage) than that of the west on average as they are up near the end with the main energy producers near the extreme poverty etc, these people in extreme poverty/war torn ravished areas have the best bases of foundation for the minds abilities ya can get for reasons i wont go into (complicated), so with that ya can see how all mentall illness will be erradicted inside two and half years no worries we have proven what to do... those that have a mentall illnes and dont want it the clear way out of it is to live for other people as your energy level is higher in consciousness and has an effect as a part/whole more so as well this will put pressure on the system to be adjusted another words ya will relieve ya symptons (proven, dont let anyone tell ya different, you psychs (docs) think i'm wrong, do ya homework on me ), contradictory to that of above nah just complicated to explain... hence end of the world as we know it... good luck love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ether2 Posted September 27, 2011 #12 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Before you recommend someone do homework on something like this, you might, I say might, want to stop reading what the fringe authors have to say and glance through something with more substance. alright i'll do that, thanx for ya educated response... good luck love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bendy Demon Posted September 27, 2011 #13 Share Posted September 27, 2011 So what you're saying is if we collectively believe in something that belief can have an effect? Well..look what happened in that Y2K scare. People actually believed that society was gong to immediately collapse and we'd all be knocked back hundreds of years because all systems would be rendered useless. People bought stores of food, water and other sundries as well as generators and porta-potties then crawled into their basements waiting for the year to turn and guess what? Nothing happened..all that screeching and freaking out, panicking and hand wringing for nothing. This is what happens when people refuse to utilize logic and instead spaz out and go ape-beans because of some goofy, new age silliness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensible Logic Posted September 27, 2011 #14 Share Posted September 27, 2011 alright i'll do that, thanx for ya educated response... good luck love Funny you ignored the rest of my post that contained the information, probably cause it doesn't match up with your view, but that's neither here nor there. Please feel free to ignore facts in favor of what you find on the fringe. When 2013 rolls around the world will still be here, populated with the same types of people and problems we have had for many generations.. What we won't see is the destruction of the world, mass destruction of people from an event cobbled together by fringe authors who really didn't know what they were talking about, world peace, higher consciousness, increased mental powers, psychic abilities being activated, etc, etc, etc...It will be just another year, much to the dismay of true believers everywhere. Much like the supposed rapture in May disappointed those who believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teflon Posted September 27, 2011 #15 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I think 2012 might see a change, not because of Nibiru or the mayans or a calendar, but because of paranoia. It will be human panic induced. And even if the world is ending or Nibiru is gonna start dancing around and mess earth up, or whatever happens.. Why spend time dwelling and worrying... go out and live life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damrod Posted September 27, 2011 #16 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) So what you're saying is if we collectively believe in something that belief can have an effect? No not literally. But it can effect the way we look at things, how we react to things and how we interact with each other. But I do highly recommend reading into Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung, the father of analytical psychiatry and his studies into collective consciousness...he was not "New Age" like some little thinkers like to imagine this idea springs from. In fact, many of these drones that pretend to be so educated and enlightened get the spine of their views on the working of the human mind and psyche from Jung and Freud...they just haven't read more than what they really wanted to hear especially when it contradicts their "boxed" view of reality ... human consciousness and awareness. Edited September 27, 2011 by Damrod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunn Posted September 27, 2011 #17 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Does anyone know what the real story behind 2012 is? I haven't read many ideas on it, or found one that makes sense. I wanted people's input on what they think is happening and will happen. Just one age (Pisces) moving into another age (Aquarius), therefore, the end/death of one age, and the beginning/birth of a new age. So the Piscean world/age dies and Aquarian world/age is born. Just like the New Year mentality about the death of a old year and the birth of a new year. Another thing to consider relating to the 2012 drama, usually when a group of people believe something is going to happen in the unforseeable future, they are wrong more often than not. The reason is because it does not fit within the Universal Law or "Murphy's law" as some call it, that is to say: "things will happen when you least expect it and they don't happen when you expect it". The expectation of Christ's return and the coming Apocalypse for the year 1000 A.D.(C.E.) in the middle ages, across Europe, and the Y2K are prime examples of why this never happens when it is predicted by a group of people. Of course it doesn't mean things like a major earthquake or a large asteroid hitting the earth won't happen, it's just a question of when; that nobody can really answer. Hope this enlightens you in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie333 Posted September 27, 2011 #18 Share Posted September 27, 2011 The story - Lol, a good one !!!! Funny and who knows, it might be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jugoso Posted September 28, 2011 #19 Share Posted September 28, 2011 So what you're saying is if we collectively believe in something that belief can have an effect? it has been proven that we can effect the outcome of things by the simple act of observation. So I certainly see it to be reasonable and possible that a collective belief in something can have an effect on a future outcome. In fact, I don´t see any way that it couldn´t. Our beliefs are based on our perceptions AND our perceptions are determined based on our beliefs. I found this regarding Belief, Truth and Knowledge http://books.google.com.mx/books?hl=es&lr=&id=NT04AAAAIAAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA3&dq=conscious+belief+manifestation&ots=U10HyYi4j9&sig=_605lCtOlS2XhvmhadXIBn-bcaI#v=onepage&q=conscious%20belief%20manifestation&f=false Although i´ve just started to look at it, I found the analogy used interesting. It attributes two characteristics of a belief 1. It is a map and 2. It is something by which we steer. In this respect, beliefs are action-guiding priciples and would therefore have a definate effect on outcome. It further goes on to suggest: "we don´t read off our interpretation of reality from the data supplied by our beliefs. Our beliefs are our interpretation of reality." So I think seperating belief from effect and outcome is pretty much impossible to do. I´ve written about this in a couple of other threads (Crowley´s word-sword priciple) as well as a video creerescrear (belief is creation)but people weren´t very interested. I´m not saying I believe this 100% but I do believe that we are much more powerful and capable of many things that we have either forgotten or haven´t figured out yet. So a simple answer to your question, Do I think that if enough people truly believe in something they can make it happen? i sure hope so!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damrod Posted September 28, 2011 #20 Share Posted September 28, 2011 it has been proven that we can effect the outcome of things by the simple act of observation. So I certainly see it to be reasonable and possible that a collective belief in something can have an effect on a future outcome. In fact, I don´t see any way that it couldn´t. Our beliefs are based on our perceptions AND our perceptions are determined based on our beliefs. I found this regarding Belief, Truth and Knowledge http://books.google.com.mx/books?hl=es&lr=&id=NT04AAAAIAAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA3&dq=conscious+belief+manifestation&ots=U10HyYi4j9&sig=_605lCtOlS2XhvmhadXIBn-bcaI#v=onepage&q=conscious%20belief%20manifestation&f=false Although i´ve just started to look at it, I found the analogy used interesting. It attributes two characteristics of a belief 1. It is a map and 2. It is something by which we steer. In this respect, beliefs are action-guiding priciples and would therefore have a definate effect on outcome. It further goes on to suggest: "we don´t read off our interpretation of reality from the data supplied by our beliefs. Our beliefs are our interpretation of reality." So I think seperating belief from effect and outcome is pretty much impossible to do. I´ve written about this in a couple of other threads (Crowley´s word-sword priciple) as well as a video creerescrear (belief is creation)but people weren´t very interested. I´m not saying I believe this 100% but I do believe that we are much more powerful and capable of many things that we have either forgotten or haven´t figured out yet. So a simple answer to your question, Do I think that if enough people truly believe in something they can make it happen? i sure hope so!! Very good points. You can further reinforce the idea that observation = influence when you look at some aspects of quantum mechanics and the discoveries that certain particles cannot be observed without being influenced by the viewer...but then again science of the mind and particle science have no bearing on some peoples comfortable view of reality and the cosmos...if the idea forces a change in their paradigm of thought and comprehension...it is disregarded and ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ether2 Posted September 28, 2011 #21 Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) Funny you ignored the rest of my post that contained the information, probably cause it doesn't match up with your view, but that's neither here nor there. Please feel free to ignore facts in favor of what you find on the fringe. When 2013 rolls around the world will still be here, populated with the same types of people and problems we have had for many generations.. What we won't see is the destruction of the world, mass destruction of people from an event cobbled together by fringe authors who really didn't know what they were talking about, world peace, higher consciousness, increased mental powers, psychic abilities being activated, etc, etc, etc...It will be just another year, much to the dismay of true believers everywhere. Much like the supposed rapture in May disappointed those who believed. and did ya read my reply #11... how is it possiable that the world will be the same as in the same (similar) problems we have today, do you understand dimensions this is consciousness (in case ya didnt know it's how we think have thoughts/knowing/wisdom, it's our mind set) the higher the dimension the higher the consciousness and yes this is where the better minds abiliities are... i'll tell ya what when and only when you can solve/know why all mentall illness exist as a whole for all i'll take heed in ya words, because the one that no sees (you), all mentall illnesses will be erradicated inside 2 1/2 years, we have proven to be able to do it it's impossiable for this not to happen as a whole, when studying mentall illness as in why how because one soon learns of the ladder of conscionsness as they are higher in consciousness in "areas" for mentall illnesses to even exist this is the reason being higher in consciousness ("in areas") mentall illnesses exist in ther first place, you knew that din ya being sensible logic to those at the height of mental illness "this higher in consciousness in (areas) is the cause of all mentall illnesses", thats why mentall illness is going up at an alarming rate because we automatically go up in dimensions which is consciousness being higher consciousness... what it actually is like is having an aerial/reciever/tuner that is tuned like ya TV, but mentall illness is like ya haveing an aerial/reciever/tuner picking up on other interferences another words tunes into other channels, thats what happens when ya got a more powerfull mind it's easier to loose controll of whats going on just like haveing a high powered car stuck on full throttle, thats higher of consciousness that you say doesnt exist... of course the world will still be here... another year 2013 it's a transitional period that has been going on for sometime now clearly you know noth'n of the minds abiliities even in todays views of what is going on, their has been a mentall war (war of the words) in the plains/realms of late go study the minds protection more importantely why for minds protection, then this will lead ya to the ladder of dimensions-consciousness then that will lead ya to why and how mentall illnesses exists of course as ya now know that will lead ya to how we have dimensions being consciousness and we do go up the ladder of dimensions/consciousness this is associated with being higher consciousness... i'll give ya a way out, just say to those that give you sensible logic against what ever you want to call your logic is that you are just fishing for info, professional info seekers act the same way, no problems man, all good get it all the time, either that or ya can just tell people ya didnt hit the right keys because of ya lack of height in consciousness mainly being that ya dont believe in a higher consciousness, therefore ya programmed yaself to be as ya are as ya say... dont forget "love" man as this will bring ya to the higher of consciousness if of course ya dont already have a mentall illness , dont worry i can help ya their i master in this field ... please take note my vocabulary is not that of a trained psychiatrist... good luck man love Edited September 28, 2011 by ether2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensible Logic Posted September 30, 2011 #22 Share Posted September 30, 2011 i'll give ya a way out, just say to those that give you sensible logic against what ever you want to call your logic is that you are just fishing for info, professional info seekers act the same way, no problems man, all good get it all the time, either that or ya can just tell people ya didnt hit the right keys because of ya lack of height in consciousness mainly being that ya dont believe in a higher consciousness, therefore ya programmed yaself to be as ya are as ya say... Give me a way out? I programmed myself because I don't believe in higher consciousness? I don't need a way out because I believe in facts and evidence. The fact is there is no evidence to support the existence of higher consciousness, higher dimensions, world systems running off the energy of emotions, mental illness being tied to higher consciousness or special mental abilities some commonly refer to as psychic powers. That you and others believe in them and that you believe that you have experienced them is fine. You have the right to believe in what you want, but belief doesn't make them real any more than belief in Santa Claus means that a fat man in a red suit is coming down my chimney on Christmas Eve. While I don't know the cause for all mental illness, you obviously don't either. Some of the things which can and do contribute to mental illness are an abnormal balance of neurotransmitters, Infections, Brain defects and injury, Genetics, Prenatal Damage, Substance abuse and Toxic substances. Based on just those I can say that there is an extreme likelihood that the mental illnesses prevalent today will still be around in 2014. Perhaps it's not me programming myself to not believe in higher consciousness. Perhaps it's you programming yourself to believe in those things that have not been proven to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted September 30, 2011 #23 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Does anyone know what the real story behind 2012 is? I haven't read many ideas on it, or found one that makes sense. I wanted people's input on what they think is happening and will happen. The thing started rolling with Jose Arguelles and his very own 'theory' about the Mayan prophecies. Then a John Major Jenkins added to the hype, later followed by everyone - including Sitchin - who loved to add to the scare. As already posted, even the date is wrong: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?app=blog&blogid=2684&showentry=24067 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ether2 Posted October 1, 2011 #24 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Give me a way out? I programmed myself because I don't believe in higher consciousness? I don't need a way out because I believe in facts and evidence. The fact is there is no evidence to support the existence of higher consciousness, higher dimensions, world systems running off the energy of emotions, mental illness being tied to higher consciousness or special mental abilities some commonly refer to as psychic powers. That you and others believe in them and that you believe that you have experienced them is fine. You have the right to believe in what you want, but belief doesn't make them real any more than belief in Santa Claus means that a fat man in a red suit is coming down my chimney on Christmas Eve. While I don't know the cause for all mental illness, you obviously don't either. Some of the things which can and do contribute to mental illness are an abnormal balance of neurotransmitters, Infections, Brain defects and injury, Genetics, Prenatal Damage, Substance abuse and Toxic substances. Based on just those I can say that there is an extreme likelihood that the mental illnesses prevalent today will still be around in 2014. Perhaps it's not me programming myself to not believe in higher consciousness. Perhaps it's you programming yourself to believe in those things that have not been proven to exist. you say you believe in facts and evidence, well obviously you have very little contact with people in fields of such (i do) and clearly donot have any understanding of anything we have talked about, people dont publish findings in this manner to give the info seeker something to read, this is more than fair and more than except comments from someone with little knowledge in these fields... you are beyond help from my end, good luck, i cannot respond to any more of ya post regarding these fields, thanx for ya educated responses... ya either not all their or ya are the worst info fisherman i have ever come across... dont forget this i stated: please take note my vocabulary is not that of a trained psychiatrist... now think why would i say that, not all is what it seems... good luck love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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