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What is the Mystery of the Number 7


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#76    Reann

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:43 PM

View Postlaver, on 08 January 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

The teachings of Christ are full of parables and hidden meanings including numerology which was clearly done for a reason and it is also clear that he wanted us to try and work out what the real meanig was in seeking the truth as he told the Samaritan lady at the well at Shechen (John 4 :1-42). This is a very important passage in the bible for various reasons
I recall the story. I remember that he and the disciples were traveling Jesus went to the well I think while others went somewhere else..i don't really remember i have to refresh myself with the entire story and the story before they got there....But he was thirsty and this woman was sort of mean about giving him a drink because of how people were back then with customs ...I think maybe from what I've read in the bible it seems that  it was more so the Jews that denied people  and Jesus broke these traditions in everyway... The woman said that she was a Samaritan and he was a Jew and that they did not associate with Samaritans.
Anyway the story goes on to work or play itself out in just what Christ was doing while he was here on the earth as Jesus...I don't get what you're getting at though. He numbered the men in her life  because he knew, he knew also to tell Peter to go to a water and a fish will have a coin in it so they could pay taxes...
I really don't know what you're suggesting in terms of numerology in this story and with Christ..can you please tell me ?
He also did a similar thing with another person, a woman who along the road went to him and he said to her that she was of something...can't  remember what but she needed a miracle ... he said something about dogs to her, i think that the Jews referred to a certain people as dogs and she said to him in return that even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the masters table or something like that..In that he turned to her and said her faith healed her... or her child or something.. but again , i think he displayed that attitude and showed the disciples  that a lot of the Hebrew traditions were wrong in denying people... Some people take that particular circumstance and think how awful of Jesus for that , but i see it as him breaking the tradition in the way that they would all understand ....

Edited by Reann, 08 January 2013 - 07:48 PM.


#77    laver

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:11 AM

View PostReann, on 08 January 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

I recall the story. I remember that he and the disciples were traveling Jesus went to the well I think while others went somewhere else..i don't really remember i have to refresh myself with the entire story and the story before they got there....But he was thirsty and this woman was sort of mean about giving him a drink because of how people were back then with customs ...I think maybe from what I've read in the bible it seems that  it was more so the Jews that denied people  and Jesus broke these traditions in everyway... The woman said that she was a Samaritan and he was a Jew and that they did not associate with Samaritans.
Anyway the story goes on to work or play itself out in just what Christ was doing while he was here on the earth as Jesus...I don't get what you're getting at though. He numbered the men in her life  because he knew, he knew also to tell Peter to go to a water and a fish will have a coin in it so they could pay taxes...
I really don't know what you're suggesting in terms of numerology in this story and with Christ..can you please tell me ?
He also did a similar thing with another person, a woman who along the road went to him and he said to her that she was of something...can't  remember what but she needed a miracle ... he said something about dogs to her, i think that the Jews referred to a certain people as dogs and she said to him in return that even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the masters table or something like that..In that he turned to her and said her faith healed her... or her child or something.. but again , i think he displayed that attitude and showed the disciples  that a lot of the Hebrew traditions were wrong in denying people... Some people take that particular circumstance and think how awful of Jesus for that , but i see it as him breaking the tradition in the way that they would all understand ....

Yes Jesus was certainly one for questioning and breaking traditions which is what got him into so much trouble with the Jerusalem authorities at the end of his mission.
He was certainly doing so with the Samaritan lady at the well at Shechem. As you say his disciples had left him to get food in the town and he sat down at Jacob's well where a Samaritan lady came to collect water
He talked to her, a woman.... taboo thing to do
A Samaritan woman...............double taboo thing to do
He ask her for a drink.............more taboo as Jews and Samaritans did not share vessels
Jesus asks her to call her husband and return; she says she has no husband
Jesus tells her that she has had 5 husbands and is living with a man who is not her husband
She says Jesus is a prophet and raises the matter of the Samarian sacred mountain next to Shechem
which Samaritans thought was the place for the Temple not Jerusalem as thought by the Jews
Jesus says the time will come when you will worship not on this mountain nor in Jerusalem but in truth

Now just from a numerical point of view 5 is a number of the goddess, the pentagram, Venus - the planet and the female
form - 2 arms 2 legs and 1 head. But the lady has had 5 husbands and the man she is living with
(which does not seem to worry Jesus) so that makes 6 and 6 is a number of 'man' - 2 legs 2 arms 1 head and 1 extra appendage
For a lady to have had 5 husbands would be very rare even today so this suggests that the numbers have another hidden meaning


If you were to study the ancient landscape geometry of the area you would find that the location where all this occured Jacob's Well
at Shechem, the sacred mountain of the Samarians (Mount Gerizim) and Jerusalem are all highly significant places in the design a fact
which Jesus seems to have been aware of and is telling us to seek.... the truth.
The numbers 5 and 6 also make 11 which is the relevant bearing in degrees for the location of Shechem in the geometry


#78    jaylemurph

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:11 AM

View PostTheSearcher, on 07 January 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

Don't even get me started on mondays....... :td:  :hmm:



Hey Jayle, long time no see (like I'm the one that should be talking). I need to add something to your French facts here, which does have it's importance.  What you say is in actuality only correct in France. In Belgium there are the words Septante = 70 and Nonante = 90 and the Swiss have actually one more Octante or Huitante (depending on region) = 80.

I'm not quite dead, yet. :)

I'm not sure, but I think Canadian French has the septante, et al numbers, too. But the system of 20s is older, and present in Old French. I've read some people speculate it's an influence from Celtic. The septante et al. were later innovations to make the language easier.

View PostSpiritWriter, on 07 January 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Numbers are quite important, everything is created mathmatically, there are cycles and seasons and measurements.... We may not be able to fathom all of them but they make us exist and we live within them.. No harm trying to understand them..

Mathematics and numbers are human inventions that reflect (recurring) patterns in Nature. The numbers themselves don't exist independently in nature, they only reflect our understanding of nature. With no people, there's nothing to count, so no numbers. Whatever connotations, mystic, supernatural or otherwise, numbers 'imply' say more things about the observer than nature or numbers.

--Jaylemurph

Edited by jaylemurph, 09 January 2013 - 04:12 AM.

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#79    TheSearcher

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:58 AM

View Postjaylemurph, on 09 January 2013 - 04:11 AM, said:

I'm not quite dead, yet. :)

I'm not sure, but I think Canadian French has the septante, et al numbers, too. But the system of 20s is older, and present in Old French. I've read some people speculate it's an influence from Celtic. The septante et al. were later innovations to make the language easier.

Mathematics and numbers are human inventions that reflect (recurring) patterns in Nature. The numbers themselves don't exist independently in nature, they only reflect our understanding of nature. With no people, there's nothing to count, so no numbers. Whatever connotations, mystic, supernatural or otherwise, numbers 'imply' say more things about the observer than nature or numbers.

--Jaylemurph

Yes you are correct, French Canadians use them too. I allways thought the septante, octante (or huitante, depending the region)  and nonante have a latin origin, however I ran across this page and if you check out the Irish Gaelic for example, we're getting close, if you check any other gaelic, we're not.
It is rather puzzling, to be honest.

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#80    Mangoze

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:40 AM

According to Wikipedia there are seven places named St Ives.


#81    laver

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:29 PM

View PostMangoze, on 09 January 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

According to Wikipedia there are seven places named St Ives.

Interesting?


#82    Mangoze

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:15 PM

Elvis Presley beseeches Lady Luck to "... shoot a seven with every shot."


#83    Reann

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:46 PM

View Postlaver, on 09 January 2013 - 12:11 AM, said:

Yes Jesus was certainly one for questioning and breaking traditions which is what got him into so much trouble with the Jerusalem authorities at the end of his mission.
He was certainly doing so with the Samaritan lady at the well at Shechem. As you say his disciples had left him to get food in the town and he sat down at Jacob's well where a Samaritan lady came to collect water
He talked to her, a woman.... taboo thing to do
A Samaritan woman...............double taboo thing to do
He ask her for a drink.............more taboo as Jews and Samaritans did not share vessels
Jesus asks her to call her husband and return; she says she has no husband
Jesus tells her that she has had 5 husbands and is living with a man who is not her husband
She says Jesus is a prophet and raises the matter of the Samarian sacred mountain next to Shechem
which Samaritans thought was the place for the Temple not Jerusalem as thought by the Jews
Jesus says the time will come when you will worship not on this mountain nor in Jerusalem but in truth

Now just from a numerical point of view 5 is a number of the goddess, the pentagram, Venus - the planet and the female
form - 2 arms 2 legs and 1 head. But the lady has had 5 husbands and the man she is living with
(which does not seem to worry Jesus) so that makes 6 and 6 is a number of 'man' - 2 legs 2 arms 1 head and 1 extra appendage
For a lady to have had 5 husbands would be very rare even today so this suggests that the numbers have another hidden meaning


If you were to study the ancient landscape geometry of the area you would find that the location where all this occured Jacob's Well
at Shechem, the sacred mountain of the Samarians (Mount Gerizim) and Jerusalem are all highly significant places in the design a fact
which Jesus seems to have been aware of and is telling us to seek.... the truth.
The numbers 5 and 6 also make 11 which is the relevant bearing in degrees for the location of Shechem in the geometry
This is interesting . I'm gonna look into it . I see all sorts of revelations in the bible but..i do remember that Jesus said he is the truth,  the way , and the life .He also said that no one goes to the Father except through him, he called God Father didn't he? Like in the Lords prayer and all.what's your view about the truth that Christ spoke of. I just take it as he was referring to himself because of who he actually was.for me,
I thought the pentagram or five pointed star ( upright not reversed ) represented the four elements earth, water , fire, and air and the fifth point represented spirit or quintessence.
Oh... and i can't help it but,  the number 11 is said   to be a favorite of those  who are  hidden  practitioners of the ancient Egyptian astrology religion.


#84    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:35 PM

View PostMangoze, on 09 January 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

According to Wikipedia there are seven places named St Ives.
And on the road to Saint Ives I met a man with seven wives.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#85    laver

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:01 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 09 January 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

And on the road to Saint Ives I met a man with seven wives.

I said to him - beyond the pale
But now of course he is in jail

Edited by laver, 10 January 2013 - 12:43 AM.


#86    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:11 AM

As I went down the stair, I met a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today, I do so wish he'd go away.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#87    laver

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:45 AM

View PostReann, on 09 January 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

This is interesting . I'm gonna look into it . I see all sorts of revelations in the bible but..i do remember that Jesus said he is the truth,  the way , and the life .He also said that no one goes to the Father except through him, he called God Father didn't he? Like in the Lords prayer and all.what's your view about the truth that Christ spoke of. I just take it as he was referring to himself because of who he actually was.for me,
I thought the pentagram or five pointed star ( upright not reversed ) represented the four elements earth, water , fire, and air and the fifth point represented spirit or quintessence.
Oh... and i can't help it but,  the number 11 is said   to be a favorite of those  who are  hidden  practitioners of the ancient Egyptian astrology religion.

View PostReann, on 09 January 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

This is interesting . I'm gonna look into it . I see all sorts of revelations in the bible but..i do remember that Jesus said he is the truth, the way , and the life .He also said that no one goes to the Father except through him, he called God Father didn't he? Like in the Lords prayer and all.what's your view about the truth that Christ spoke of. I just take it as he was referring to himself because of who he actually was.for me,
I thought the pentagram or five pointed star ( upright not reversed ) represented the four elements earth, water , fire, and air and the fifth point represented spirit or quintessence.
Oh... and i can't help it but, the number 11 is said to be a favorite of those who are hidden practitioners of the ancient Egyptian astrology religion.

Jesus and his companion Mary of Magdala were clearly aware of an ancient design of landscape geometry which has key sites in the Holy Land including the place where he stops and talks to the Samaritan lady by the well at Shechem. His disciples are shocked at his behaviour, all the taboos he had broken, so the incident is well recorded in the bible which may have been Christ's intention in marking this location for the future. The numbers that occur in the story 5 husbands and 6 partners could just be a coincidence but if Jesus knew of the landscape geometry he may have been leaving a clue about this location as the important bearing line that reveals this location in the geometry has the number 11 in it.
If you look at the beginning of the Book of Revelations Chapter 1 verse 20 says there is a 'secret meaning' in the 7 churches identified by Jesus in the text and it has now been established what this 'secret meaning' is their locations within the ancient design of landscape geometry which also includes the site where Jesus talks to the Samaritan lady at the well.


#88    Everdred

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:15 AM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 07 January 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

  • The 7 days of a week, which originated from astronomy and myth/religion/pantheons - Ravivar (from surya or the sun), Somvar (which originated from soma  or the Moon), Mangalvar (which originated from Mangala,  or Mars), Budhwar (which oriignated from Budha or Mercury), Guruvar (which originated from Guru or Jupiter),  Shukravar (originating from Shukra or Venus) and Shanivar (originating from shani or Saturn).

I think this is perhaps the most important point for the relevance of the number 7.  With the naked eye, there are only seven heavenly bodies that can be observed regularly (i.e. excluding comets or meteors), and which appear to move.  These are the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.  The Greeks of course gave us the word "planet" in reference to the fact that these bodies appear to wander across the fixed backdrop of stars.  So of course any culture that made astronomical observations tended to interpret these planets as gods roaming the heavens.

We have above the Indian week, and another person already explained the Germanic gods associated with the English days of the week, so I'll add to it the Romantic system.  Monday belonged to the Moon god Luna, Tuesday to Mars, Wednesday to Mercury, Thursday to Jupiter (aka Iovis), Friday to Venus, Saturday to Saturn, and Sunday to Sol (or later the Christian god).  So in Italian, for example, the days are: Lunedi, Martedi, Mercoledi, Giovedi, Vendredi, Sabbato (from the Jewish Sabbath), and Domenica (the Lord's Day).  And slight variations exist in the other Romantic languages, generally keeping the scheme of 5 Roman gods + two Christianized days.  It should also be noted that this isn't exclusively Indo-European, as indeed the ancient Mesopotamians (who were mainly Semitic except for the Sumerians) also had a week of seven days and associations of planets with gods (though I'm not sure if they used a god naming scheme), and obviously the Hebrews had a seven day week as well (which probably influenced the days of creation, rather than the other way around).

I think it's natural, then, that these gods, who were in the minds of ancients actually visible up in the heavens, were very important, and their association with days is evidence of their great influence.  No doubt, then, that their number, seven, would be highly influential as well, and likely regarded as holy.  It should be no surprise that it crops up so often.

Edited by Everdred, 10 January 2013 - 01:15 AM.


#89    laver

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:42 AM

View PostEverdred, on 10 January 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

I think this is perhaps the most important point for the relevance of the number 7.  With the naked eye, there are only seven heavenly bodies that can be observed regularly (i.e. excluding comets or meteors), and which appear to move.  These are the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.  The Greeks of course gave us the word "planet" in reference to the fact that these bodies appear to wander across the fixed backdrop of stars.  So of course any culture that made astronomical observations tended to interpret these planets as gods roaming the heavens.

We have above the Indian week, and another person already explained the Germanic gods associated with the English days of the week, so I'll add to it the Romantic system.  Monday belonged to the Moon god Luna, Tuesday to Mars, Wednesday to Mercury, Thursday to Jupiter (aka Iovis), Friday to Venus, Saturday to Saturn, and Sunday to Sol (or later the Christian god).  So in Italian, for example, the days are: Lunedi, Martedi, Mercoledi, Giovedi, Vendredi, Sabbato (from the Jewish Sabbath), and Domenica (the Lord's Day).  And slight variations exist in the other Romantic languages, generally keeping the scheme of 5 Roman gods + two Christianized days.  It should also be noted that this isn't exclusively Indo-European, as indeed the ancient Mesopotamians (who were mainly Semitic except for the Sumerians) also had a week of seven days and associations of planets with gods (though I'm not sure if they used a god naming scheme), and obviously the Hebrews had a seven day week as well (which probably influenced the days of creation, rather than the other way around).

I think it's natural, then, that these gods, who were in the minds of ancients actually visible up in the heavens, were very important, and their association with days is evidence of their great influence.  No doubt, then, that their number, seven, would be highly influential as well, and likely regarded as holy.  It should be no surprise that it crops up so often.


There is clearly a link between 'the gods and goddesses' and days of the week but the earliest civilisation, the Sumerians, did not believe that there were just the 7 planets but more as they depicted on seals, yet the sacred number of these ancient people was still the number 7. This has been attributed by some to the fact that in the Sumerian view of the solar system the Earth is the 7th planet when not counting starting with the sun but counting from the outside in towards the sun.
It is an interesting note that this is the way you would count the planets if coming into the solar system from the outside.

In the Sumerian creation story the 'Goddess of life' creates 6 versions of humans and then the God ( Enki or Ea ) makes one more making a total of 7 originators of the Human race.
The Sumerian story of the flood and the ark, which  of course seems to be the origin of the biblical account written much later, tells us that their ark was at sea for 7days and 7 nights. This cycle of time, a week, might be the origin of the 7 day time cycle that we still use today with the 7th day being Holy.
There were also 7 major Gods and Goddesses in the Sumerian scheme of things


#90    docyabut2

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:04 AM

The Egyptian number system was based on counting in groups of ten. Why was this so? It is believed that men began to count in groups of ten using his ten fingers.

The number seven is the greater part of ten, its simplely represents many.

For instance the earth was made of manys days and on the last day God rested. :)

Edited by docyabut2, 10 January 2013 - 10:56 AM.





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