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Bradley Manning Trial


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#61    The Silver Thong

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:22 AM

When exposing a crime becomes a crime were do we draw a line.  The US goverment should stand trial beside Manning in this and also answer to a court of law in a way Manning is oh wait that would be against the law.

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#62    ninjadude

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:23 AM

1. Solitary Confinement/Isolation
Solitary confinement is strictly prohibited under international law.
2. Humiliation Techniques Bradley Manning, being held alternatively in "suicide risk" and "prevention of injury" status (despite military psychologists testifying that he posed no risk of injury to himself or others)
3. Sleep Deprivation
Upon his initial confinement in Kuwait, Manning's days and nights were reversed, being awoken in the evening and kept up all night.  Sleep deprivation is a very effective torture technique used by torturers because it makes a person more suggestible, reduces psychological resistance and it reduces the body’s capacity to resist pain. It had this very effect on Manning, causing him to have what has been described as an "anxiety attack" and "nervous breakdown."
4. Sensory Deprivation
Sensory deprivation is used to instil a sense of fear, disorientation and cause dependency on their captor. Sensory deprivation has also been attributed to increased pain sensitivity and increased psychological stress.
5. Stress Positions
Manning was kept shackled in his cell.  He was told he had to stand because he was still "on duty." If he sat, he was not allowed to lean against the wall or lie down. The strangest thing was the "tear-proof smock," which was really a nearly floor-length, rigid, abrasive rubber-and-foam straight jacket. Manning donned this restraint, which he often had to wear with nothing on beneath.  Manning got stuck in this device, which was supposedly for his protection, and had to be extracted by guards.

http://www.dailykos....Bradley-Manning

Sure you can say he was in the military and they do all sorts of torture to recruits. But Manning was a prisoner. At that point, torture is inhuman.

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#63    DieChecker

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:30 AM

View Postninjadude, on 06 December 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

Unless military justice is wildly different than civilian, I would say the above is complete and utter bunk.
What you say it true Ninja, that he is NOT guilty till proven guilty, but the evidence of guilt is not in dispute... the trial is a technicality. What is there to dispute.

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#64    DieChecker

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:32 AM

View Postninjadude, on 06 December 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

1. Solitary Confinement/Isolation
Solitary confinement is strictly prohibited under international law.
2. Humiliation Techniques Bradley Manning, being held alternatively in "suicide risk" and "prevention of injury" status (despite military psychologists testifying that he posed no risk of injury to himself or others)
3. Sleep Deprivation
Upon his initial confinement in Kuwait, Manning's days and nights were reversed, being awoken in the evening and kept up all night.  Sleep deprivation is a very effective torture technique used by torturers because it makes a person more suggestible, reduces psychological resistance and it reduces the body’s capacity to resist pain. It had this very effect on Manning, causing him to have what has been described as an "anxiety attack" and "nervous breakdown."
4. Sensory Deprivation
Sensory deprivation is used to instil a sense of fear, disorientation and cause dependency on their captor. Sensory deprivation has also been attributed to increased pain sensitivity and increased psychological stress.
5. Stress Positions
Manning was kept shackled in his cell.  He was told he had to stand because he was still "on duty." If he sat, he was not allowed to lean against the wall or lie down. The strangest thing was the "tear-proof smock," which was really a nearly floor-length, rigid, abrasive rubber-and-foam straight jacket. Manning donned this restraint, which he often had to wear with nothing on beneath.  Manning got stuck in this device, which was supposedly for his protection, and had to be extracted by guards.

http://www.dailykos....Bradley-Manning

Sure you can say he was in the military and they do all sorts of torture to recruits. But Manning was a prisoner. At that point, torture is inhuman.
I wonder if there have been any studies of military prisoners. I'd bet that his situation is not that unusual.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#65    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:43 AM

View Postninjadude, on 06 December 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

1. Solitary Confinement/Isolation
Solitary confinement is strictly prohibited under international law.
2. Humiliation Techniques Bradley Manning, being held alternatively in "suicide risk" and "prevention of injury" status (despite military psychologists testifying that he posed no risk of injury to himself or others)
3. Sleep Deprivation
Upon his initial confinement in Kuwait, Manning's days and nights were reversed, being awoken in the evening and kept up all night.  Sleep deprivation is a very effective torture technique used by torturers because it makes a person more suggestible, reduces psychological resistance and it reduces the body’s capacity to resist pain. It had this very effect on Manning, causing him to have what has been described as an "anxiety attack" and "nervous breakdown."
4. Sensory Deprivation
Sensory deprivation is used to instil a sense of fear, disorientation and cause dependency on their captor. Sensory deprivation has also been attributed to increased pain sensitivity and increased psychological stress.
5. Stress Positions
Manning was kept shackled in his cell.  He was told he had to stand because he was still "on duty." If he sat, he was not allowed to lean against the wall or lie down. The strangest thing was the "tear-proof smock," which was really a nearly floor-length, rigid, abrasive rubber-and-foam straight jacket. Manning donned this restraint, which he often had to wear with nothing on beneath.  Manning got stuck in this device, which was supposedly for his protection, and had to be extracted by guards.

http://www.dailykos....Bradley-Manning

Sure you can say he was in the military and they do all sorts of torture to recruits. But Manning was a prisoner. At that point, torture is inhuman.
And yet ... it's still not torture.

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#66    Babe Ruth

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:00 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 06 December 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

I wonder if there have been any studies of military prisoners. I'd bet that his situation is not that unusual.

And you would lose that bet DC. :yes:

View Postninjadude, on 06 December 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

1. Solitary Confinement/Isolation
Solitary confinement is strictly prohibited under international law.
2. Humiliation Techniques Bradley Manning, being held alternatively in "suicide risk" and "prevention of injury" status (despite military psychologists testifying that he posed no risk of injury to himself or others)
3. Sleep Deprivation
Upon his initial confinement in Kuwait, Manning's days and nights were reversed, being awoken in the evening and kept up all night.  Sleep deprivation is a very effective torture technique used by torturers because it makes a person more suggestible, reduces psychological resistance and it reduces the body’s capacity to resist pain. It had this very effect on Manning, causing him to have what has been described as an "anxiety attack" and "nervous breakdown."
4. Sensory Deprivation
Sensory deprivation is used to instil a sense of fear, disorientation and cause dependency on their captor. Sensory deprivation has also been attributed to increased pain sensitivity and increased psychological stress.
5. Stress Positions
Manning was kept shackled in his cell.  He was told he had to stand because he was still "on duty." If he sat, he was not allowed to lean against the wall or lie down. The strangest thing was the "tear-proof smock," which was really a nearly floor-length, rigid, abrasive rubber-and-foam straight jacket. Manning donned this restraint, which he often had to wear with nothing on beneath.  Manning got stuck in this device, which was supposedly for his protection, and had to be extracted by guards.

http://www.dailykos....Bradley-Manning

Sure you can say he was in the military and they do all sorts of torture to recruits. But Manning was a prisoner. At that point, torture is inhuman.

Yes, it is torture, and it is also illegal.


#67    pallidin

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:05 PM

Nah, Bradley Manning should be hung by his toenails for being a world criminal.


#68    Babe Ruth

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:19 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 05 December 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Sure it is. Was Manning allowed to walk free on is own recognisance, or was he considered a flight risk? A judge somewhere determined that the evidence that existed was enough to hold him for trial. He's already been judged, and found to be suspect. He even gave a confession. The trial is a technicality, to determine HOW MUCH time he is going to do. Not if he is guilty or not. That is also why they have offered a plea bargan. Because the evidence is more then enough to convict him for life, but they are allowing him to skip the trial and go right to doing his time, and maybe getting out before all his hair is grey. I very much recommend he do it.


He was exposed to that kind of torture anyway... by working in the military. You're FORCED, FORCED!!! to wear certain clothes, and to attend physical training, and as a single soldier he was Forced to keep his room clean and to always be shaven. FORCED TO SHAVE!! Can you imagine the horror?? Hair has to be kept short too, or they dock your pay (Article 15). They force you to show a drivers licence AND insurance, AND a title before they let you park your car on post. Also, they drug test you regularly... against your will. And they force a physical fitness test on you twice a year. And your promotions depend on all these factors.

staying up late, and wearing little clothes. This sounds like my weekends....


NO. I think that the military justice system needs to know, and failing that the Federal level investigative services, but Joe on the Street does not need to know every accidental, or non-accidental, injury and fatality that our military is invovled in. If you got an email everytime something happened, you'd fill your account in a couple days.


It does... it does mean it can be kept away from public eyes. The same as your taxes are calculated and the various national laws are established, and university certifications are figured out. Representatives of the people were elected and somewhere in the past they determined the levels of what the public needs to know and what needs to be kept a secret. These elected people change all the time, and the laws change all the time. And that is how what is secret is determined.


It is not right, but there are organizations within the military and our greater Federal government whos job it is to deal with these things. So then the problem then would be with the leadership, not with the military and not the soldiers. The military does not hide anything, leadership in the military does.


Agree. He was not really tortured. Depending on what you want to call torture, it could be torture to just go in to work every day, or torture to drive a 20 year old car, or torture to have 10 kids. Being kept awake and wearing fashionless clothes is not torture.

A judge somewhere?  I don't suppose you could be more specific could you?

Manning was a HUGE embarrassment to the government and the US Army.  For that reason he has been held in violation of the speedy trial rule that even the UCMJ has, and in torturous conditions to boot.  Furthermore, his C-in-C declared his guilt before any judicial proceedings at all.  Violations all around, against a man who blew the whistle on government crimes.

Either you never served in the military, or you see the federal government and US Army through rose-colored glasses.  You have a very strange view of "justice" and what is right and what is wrong.

View Postpallidin, on 06 December 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Nah, Bradley Manning should be hung by his toenails for being a world criminal.

Perhaps you would like to administer the torture?


#69    pallidin

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:27 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 06 December 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:


Perhaps you would like to administer the torture?

Damn right I would, and also, especially, to Assange.


#70    with bells on

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:12 PM

View Postpallidin, on 06 December 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:



Damn right I would, and also, especially, to Assange.

the mighty Assange.. the bright light, fighting against the dark in the world..


#71    Dredimus

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:44 PM

Quote

1. Solitary Confinement/Isolation
Solitary confinement is strictly prohibited under international law.
Please source the code and chapter…

Quote

2. Humiliation Techniques Bradley Manning, being held alternatively in "suicide risk" and "prevention of injury" status (despite military psychologists testifying that he posed no risk of injury to himself or others)
Manning had already shown a tendency for violence and unpredictability. People fail to realize that him releasing these documents wasn’t him trying to be a hero… he had no idea what was even in the files when he released them.

Quote

3. Sleep Deprivation
Upon his initial confinement in Kuwait, Manning's days and nights were reversed, being awoken in the evening and kept up all night.  Sleep deprivation is a very effective torture technique used by torturers because it makes a person more suggestible, reduces psychological resistance and it reduces the body’s capacity to resist pain. It had this very effect on Manning, causing him to have what has been described as an "anxiety attack" and "nervous breakdown."  
Ive commented on this already… but from what im gathering you are saying its ok as long as its an active soldier and not a prisoner…. So prisoners should get better treatment than our soldiers? And please don’t forget, he is still enlisted in the US Army even though he is currently detained.

Quote

4. Sensory Deprivation
Sensory deprivation is used to instil a sense of fear, disorientation and cause dependency on their captor. Sensory deprivation has also been attributed to increased pain sensitivity and increased psychological stress.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quote

5. Stress Positions
Manning was kept shackled in his cell.  He was told he had to stand because he was still "on duty." If he sat, he was not allowed to lean against the wall or lie down. The strangest thing was the "tear-proof smock," which was really a nearly floor-length, rigid, abrasive rubber-and-foam straight jacket. Manning donned this restraint, which he often had to wear with nothing on beneath.  Manning got stuck in this device, which was supposedly for his protection, and had to be extracted by guards.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


#72    Babe Ruth

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 02:44 PM

View PostDredimus, on 06 December 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

Please source the code and chapter…


Manning had already shown a tendency for violence and unpredictability. People fail to realize that him releasing these documents wasn’t him trying to be a hero… he had no idea what was even in the files when he released them.

Ive commented on this already… but from what im gathering you are saying its ok as long as its an active soldier and not a prisoner…. So prisoners should get better treatment than our soldiers? And please don’t forget, he is still enlisted in the US Army even though he is currently detained.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

From where do you get the notion that Manning was violent?

You want the code and chapter regarding being held in isolation, but in the same breath you make the claim that Manning was violent?  Utter hogwash.

He was a gay, small framed and thin intelligence analyst, NOT an infantryman.

Pallidin might be showing off his christianity there, volunteering to be the executioner for both Manning and Assange?


#73    Dredimus

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:00 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 07 December 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

From where do you get the notion that Manning was violent?

You want the code and chapter regarding being held in isolation, but in the same breath you make the claim that Manning was violent?  Utter hogwash.

He was a gay, small framed and thin intelligence analyst, NOT an infantryman.

Pallidin might be showing off his christianity there, volunteering to be the executioner for both Manning and Assange?

Heres One:

Quote


His violent outburst are also the reason he is PFC Manning and not Specialist Manning... he was demoted for physically assaulting a female, Specialist Jihrleah Showman.


#74    Yamato

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:26 PM

Violent outbursts don't make him innocent or guilty in this case.  The good and bad his actions caused stay the same.   Character assassinations about all manner of irrelevancy are quite effective at swaying the court of popular opinion though.

He sounds mentally ill which isn't a crime.

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#75    DieChecker

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:11 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 06 December 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

And you would lose that bet DC. :yes:
And how would you know that?

View Postpallidin, on 06 December 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Nah, Bradley Manning should be hung by his toenails for being a world criminal.
It all went down in a war zone. He could have simply been taken out and shot.

Anything below that that happens to him is a mercy.

Edited by DieChecker, 07 December 2012 - 11:13 PM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker




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