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Citizen Hearing on Disclosure


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#151    bee

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 09:57 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 12 June 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

But do you know what the real tragedy is here? That I have given you this very link following at least half a dozen times before.

ofBlogTalkRadio’sShapeShifting, saying that though there was indeed a cover-up at Rosewell, NASA knew nothing about it – at least not to his knowledge.



View Postpsyche101, on 13 June 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

That is not MY Link Bee. Dishonest of you. My link is a transcript, you have linked to a video and I am guessing just to be nasty, as only the post pervious you acknowledged my dislike for video.

This is my link Bee LINK TRANSCRIPT NOT VIDEO


I'm not the one being dishonest........see above for evidence :)

But I wish you had given that link you are now giving. It would have saved me some time with the quote...


.

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#152    bee

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:18 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 13 June 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

Are you saying thatr Wilson is neither? Who are these people then Bee if not Wilson?

You would have to ask EM that question not me....but he has said that they were under 'really severe oaths'

so I doubt you would get an answer.



Quote

You Presented the Kerrang interview that Edgar MItchell specifically notes was erroneous.

.more spin from you. Mitchell did not retract anything he said on that Kerrang interview...but he cleared up

a couple of points of misunderstanding about the response to the video..

Lisa Bonnice says.... "LB: So the interview has been a little misquoted. But you actually have information about the Roswell incident?"


Quote

You knew that interview was not only embellished, but not endorsed by Edgar, and I have given you the link countless times, you have it above, but you refuse to read this line for some personal reason:

more spin..... Edgar said the things he said on the Kerrang interview....so he obviously endorses it.

The interviewer was even shocked and surprised that EM said what he did about the cover up....he wasn't expecting it.







This thread is about the Citizen Hearing and although EM gave a short piece via Skype at the beginning....we can't keep going over all the old stuff

that you keep bringing up....forever. So move along now....unless you have something more constructive to offer or anything about

the Citizen Hearing.

thankyou






.

Edited by bee, 13 June 2013 - 10:27 AM.

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#153    quillius

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 12:58 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 13 June 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

Of that I have no doubt, but will continue to happen when Bee just makes stuff up and repeats it Ad nauseam and refuses to engage posted information.



No, I am sure we agree on that in the thread, he also states Bob Lazar, Stephen Greer, Boyd Bushman and Glenn Dennis.

Not a spectacular line up though.





They have not, we have a list of people who saw the actual debris.

Unfortunately, a careful reading of Bill Moore and Charles Berlitz’s Roswell Incident reveals that, despite the impressive claim of having “interviewed more than seventy witnesses,” the testimonies of just twenty-five people are presented. Out of these twenty-five, only seven of them are firsthand sources who claim to have seen the alleged saucer debris, and one of these accounts is suspect. Of these seven people, however, only five claim to have actually handled the material personally, and one of them is adamant that it was not from an extraterrestrial spacecraft.
The remainder of the professed “witnesses” cited in The Roswell Incident are either secondhand sources (whose testimonies constitute hearsay) or people who saw no wreckage at all or were never present at the “debris field” during the critical time. In other words, they are not actually witnesses in the true sense of the word.

LINK






I do not believe has has seen a photo, that seems to constitute "First Hand Knowledge" to me.



Who was left to chase down? We had the "Ranchers" The "Inside Military Source" Wilson, the "Advice" Bushman, and Lazar, and the local - Dennis.



I am extremely jaded by the result mate. You did excellent research, and I like to think I put up a decent discussion, in the end we agreed his sources are very dodgy  yet despite the many links, the many sources uncovered, the hours expanded to uncover this information, we still get the same old crap form the Bee's and the Zoser's of the world regurgitating embellished versions of their own upon what Dr Mitchell has said.

Believers always say skeptics would not accept proof, yet here I have direct proof that nothing is good enough for an FTB. I say it often, and things like this, and most posting by Bee and Zoser, is proof that what we see is the very worst UFOlogy has to offer. If not for the Hawking's and Sagans, and the not as well know like James Carlson's and Tim Herbert's of the world, it really would not be worth the time of day to so much as bother with. Just another fairy tale.

Hey Psyche, if you dont mind I will respond to these points over on the original Edgar thread as I am all over the place at the moment..some serious issues at work.

a quick point though....a photo is definitely not first hand knowledge as far as I am concerned....but I guess thats a whole new discussion.


#154    psyche101

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:41 AM

View Postbee, on 13 June 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

I'm not the one being dishonest........see above for evidence :)

But I wish you had given that link you are now giving. It would have saved me some time with the quote...


.


Well Bee, it appears I owe you an apology, I did forget to leave the link - that time, and even though I have given it to you before, I am not sure how you could pick the link out of the quoted text and not notice this:



In the wake of that flap, the American astronaut set the record straight in an interview with Lisa Bonnice, host ofBlogTalkRadio’sShapeShifting, saying that though there was indeed a cover-up at Rosewell, NASA knew nothing about it – at least not to his knowledge.
Here’s the full transcript of Mitchell’s discussion:

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#155    psyche101

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 01:15 AM

View Postbee, on 13 June 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

You would have to ask EM that question not me....but he has said that they were under 'really severe oaths'

so I doubt you would get an answer.

Then ask him.

In other words -  a made up source. No names, no places, nothing, just assurances. Edgar Mitchell know about as much about the Roswell Incident as you do. Which is the medias version of events.

View Postbee, on 13 June 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

.more spin from you. Mitchell did not retract anything he said on that Kerrang interview...but he cleared up

a couple of points of misunderstanding about the response to the video..

Lisa Bonnice says.... "LB: So the interview has been a little misquoted. But you actually have information about the Roswell incident?"

I did not say he detracted anything, I bloody bolded and coloured the letters for you. He cleared up the misconceptions, he knows nothing about ET, NASA is not involved and he believes the people who believe Roswell. It really is that simple.

View Postbee, on 13 June 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

more spin..... Edgar said the things he said on the Kerrang interview....so he obviously endorses it.

The interviewer was even shocked and surprised that EM said what he did about the cover up....he wasn't expecting it.

If you believe that play acting, then it is little wonder that you believe in the nonsense you so often post. Edgar has been saying this for over a decade now, and that was noted in the link I eventually gave you. What sort of a reporter is unaware of what his subject has been saying for over a decade in public?

View Postbee, on 13 June 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

This thread is about the Citizen Hearing and although EM gave a short piece via Skype at the beginning....we can't keep going over all the old stuff

that you keep bringing up....forever. So move along now....unless you have something more constructive to offer or anything about

the Citizen Hearing.

thankyou

Hacktorp first mentioned Mitchell, back on page 6.
You keep insisting that Ed has relayed your fantasies and confirmed them, no I wont be part of that thanks. You avoided where I noted that the people at the hearing are saying disclosure has happened, so what is it we are waiting for now?



David Hamilton of the Department of Energy, Donna Hare of NASA, and James Kopf of the National Security Agency
I would also like to thank the countries of France, Brazil, Britain, Russia, Italy, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, New Zealand, our neighbor to the North - Canada, Uruguay, and Australia, for also opening their files to the citizens of their countries, and allowing them access to information that is so very important to the evolution of humanity.
I thank you for allowing me this opportunity to have a small part in doing the same, by sharing the information I have given you today.

It seems I have the information, what do you want t know?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#156    Lilly

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 01:22 AM

Uh...NASA was established in 1958...Roswell took place like 10 years prior. Little wonder NASA had no involvement in any "cover-up".

"Ignorance is ignorance. It is a state of mind, not an opinion." ~MID~

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#157    bee

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 09:35 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 14 June 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

Well Bee, it appears I owe you an apology, I did forget to leave the link -

Ok....

At least we've cleared up that point...

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#158    bee

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 09:50 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 14 June 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

In other words -  a made up source. No names, no places, nothing, just assurances. Edgar Mitchell know about as much about the Roswell Incident as you do. Which is the medias version of events.


Finally you are driven to your last refuge with Edgar Mitchell..... and you accuse him of making up sources..in other words

you accuse him of being a liar.

I haven't had military and intelligence people talking to me about Roswell...so EM will naturally know more than me.....silly billy psyche... :D

lets have the quote again...from your link...


http://blog.blogtalk...ecord-straight/


LB: So the interview has been a little misquoted. But you actually have information about the Roswell incident?
EM: Yes and my information comes from what I call “the old timers,” because I grew up in the Roswell area and when I went to the moon, some of the old timers from that period, some locals, and others military and intelligence people, who were under rather severe oaths to not reveal any of this and kind of wanted to get their conscience clear and off their chests before they passed on, selected me and said, independently – this wasn’t a group effort – independently that maybe I might be a safe person to tell their story to. And all of them confirmed, and what I’m saying is they confirmed the Roswell incident was a real incident and they in some way had some part in it that they wanted to talk about.

.

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#159    bee

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 10:22 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 14 June 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

Hacktorp first mentioned Mitchell, back on page 6.
You keep insisting that Ed has relayed your fantasies and confirmed them, no I wont be part of that thanks. You avoided where I noted that the people at the hearing are saying disclosure has happened, so what is it we are waiting for now?



David Hamilton of the Department of Energy, Donna Hare of NASA, and James Kopf of the National Security Agency
I would also like to thank the countries of France, Brazil, Britain, Russia, Italy, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, New Zealand, our neighbor to the North - Canada, Uruguay, and Australia, for also opening their files to the citizens of their countries, and allowing them access to information that is so very important to the evolution of humanity.
I thank you for allowing me this opportunity to have a small part in doing the same, by sharing the information I have given you today.

It seems I have the information, what do you want t know?


I want to know why you didn't link to the quote that you have posted above?

You seem to be getting it muddled up with the Citizen Hearing....


Here's where it came from...published May 2010

http://www.ufocasebo...nhowerknew.html


Quote

Former Legislator Makes Taped Statement on Un-Released Eisenhower Brief Henry W. McElroy Jr., Regarding the Presence of Extraterrestrials in the USA
... it informed President Eisenhower of the continued presence of extraterrestrial beings here in the United States of America. The brief seemed to indicate that a meeting between the President and some of these visitors could be arranged as appropriate if desired. The tone of the brief indicated to me that there was no need for concern ...


And I have speculated that the brief that McElroy Jr. saw might have been or come from, the report that ex CIA whistleblower

Anonymous and  his (then) boss  gave to President Eisenhower after they were delegated to go to Area 51 and S-4...to deliver a stern

warning and gather information about 'aliens'.....


The bit about that part starts at 6:53.....





and carries on in part 2




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#160    1963

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 12:00 AM

View PostLilly, on 14 June 2013 - 01:22 AM, said:

Uh...NASA was established in 1958...Roswell took place like 10 years prior. Little wonder NASA had no involvement in any "cover-up".

What's in a name?....NACA '1915'...NASA '1958'....

The National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) was a U.S. federal agency founded on March 3, 1915, to undertake, promote, and institutionalize aeronautical research. On October 1, 1958, the agency was dissolved, and its assets and personnel transferred to the newly created National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA).

http://en.wikipedia....for_Aeronautics



Same personnel ...Same assets...stands to reason that it is also the Same policies of information-sanitisation were adopted!

There are many recorded examples to be found of 'the cover-up policies' being enforced by certain powerful factions within the agency,[possibly the DIA]...for example, Paul R Hill who was a leading engineer and manager at the NACA 1939-58 and NASA 1958-70 became aware that 'something wasn't quite right' in the organisation when he was preparing to write a book about his personal beliefs and knowledge on the UFO subject'!....

http://thecid.com/uf...ticles/hill.htm

...and from a Richard Thieme interview with Paul's daughter Julie in Dec 2000....

"It wasn’t until nine years after my father’s death that I learned that my mother, who died a year and a half ago, was the companion he mentioned during the sighting in Hampton Roads. My dad did describe his sightings, especially the one with four vehicles, the first sighting he talks about, the glowing spheres. That was before I was born. He described it when I was a young teenager. He went to report it to the Air Force (Blue Book was in effect) and then pretty much dismissed him. He said, I work at NASA, you can check my credentials, and then they paid attention to him. At NASA he was forbidden to talk about it. He said some people there blacklisted him and he was excluded from some projects by some people, it was people who thought he was an oddball or a renegade. He was excluded because of his ideas. They didn’t want to be associated with him. On the base, at NASA, his ideas were well know. He was very outspoken and quite a character, a great storyteller with a great sense of humor. He might have done negative things too. He said he was excluded from some things specifically because of his association with UFOs."

http://www.thiemewor...of-paul-r-hill/


Cheers.

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#161    S2F

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:35 AM

View Post1963, on 15 June 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

What's in a name?....NACA '1915'...NASA '1958'....

The National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) was a U.S. federal agency founded on March 3, 1915, to undertake, promote, and institutionalize aeronautical research. On October 1, 1958, the agency was dissolved, and its assets and personnel transferred to the newly created National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA).

http://en.wikipedia....for_Aeronautics



Same personnel ...Same assets...stands to reason that it is also the Same policies of information-sanitisation were adopted!


Nice find '63. :tu:

Where have you been hiding yourself lately?

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#162    ChrLzs

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:29 AM

View Post1963, on 15 June 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

Same personnel ...Same assets...stands to reason that it is also the Same policies of information-sanitisation were adopted!
Which policies are those?  Do you think NASA's asset base would be increased or lessened if there were known aliens?  I suspect you might agree with me that it would be vastly greater than the paltry, strangled organisation that it has become with all the cutbacks over the years..  And wouldn't there be a few real whistleblowers?

Indeed, has it occurred to the dear reader that back in the 40s/50s/60s, even perhaps up to the 80s, various defence agencies actually *used* ufo reports to help bolster their cases for additional funding.   Why did it slow/stop in the 80's and 90's onwards?  I'm glad you asked.  It stopped because the technology was advanced enough to identify the vast majority of sightings, and given the nature of modern avionics/logging/radar, etc pilots could no longer easily claim that their crazy maneuvers/use of weapons was because they were dodgin' a Yoofoe.

Is your best evidence of these coverup policies that anecdotal third-hand report about someone who, gee, might have actually been an oddball humorist and story teller..?  Hardly any wonder that:
- if they did have some clandestine stuff, he would be excluded
- if they didn't, that he would still tell anyone who would listen that they did, him bein' a story teller and all..

Either way, it seems to me that until 'disclosure' or until actual evidence of an important coverup on this topic actually comes forth, speculating about it sounds an awful lot to me like the same old tinfoil argument - well of course there is no evidence of chemtrails - the ebil gubmint overlords cover it all up.  So it has to exist!!!

No matter that the whole idea of chemtrails/{insert favorite topic here) is unsupported drivel.   And yes, I'm suggesting the analogy can be applied to at least some extent to ufos=aliens and others...

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#163    psyche101

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 09:15 AM

View Postbee, on 14 June 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Ok....

At least we've cleared up that point...

As much as you are capable of yes.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#164    psyche101

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 09:25 AM

View Postbee, on 14 June 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

Finally you are driven to your last refuge with Edgar Mitchell..... and you accuse him of making up sources..in other words

you accuse him of being a liar.

I haven't had military and intelligence people talking to me about Roswell...so EM will naturally know more than me.....silly billy psyche... :D

lets have the quote again...from your link...


http://blog.blogtalk...ecord-straight/


LB: So the interview has been a little misquoted. But you actually have information about the Roswell incident?
EM: Yes and my information comes from what I call “the old timers,” because I grew up in the Roswell area and when I went to the moon, some of the old timers from that period, some locals, and others military and intelligence people, who were under rather severe oaths to not reveal any of this and kind of wanted to get their conscience clear and off their chests before they passed on, selected me and said, independently – this wasn’t a group effort – independently that maybe I might be a safe person to tell their story to. And all of them confirmed, and what I’m saying is they confirmed the Roswell incident was a real incident and they in some way had some part in it that they wanted to talk about.

.



Go ahead and prove it is not Admiral WIlson. Because that is his inside source, and it's a Greer induced fantasy. That is why he distanced himself from Greer. You know this, and you know I am right about it, that is why you are so upset about it. Be upset I do not care, I have no idea what your intention is, but you seem to want everybody to play "lets all believe in aliens" well, go jump Bee, I don't play that game.

YOU do not know who the source is I DO because I bothered to read it, but you refuse to so much as follow the link to the thread. That alone speaks volumes, you know you are scared of what is in there. Quillius also suggested you look there, but then again, he is a fair sensible debater, who allows for actual information to be presented as opposed to making it up on the spot, and actually goes out and finds more information to prove his point. Anyone can see by the way you fawn over captain comicbook that all you are after is a controversial claim. And that is why he is soooo much better at this than you could ever dream to be.

Your own deliberate ignorance does not cut the mustard as an excuse. I gave you your "inside man" and lets face it, the REAL truth blew your mind didn't it! Cannot accept it can you?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#165    psyche101

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 09:39 AM

View Postbee, on 14 June 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

I want to know why you didn't link to the quote that you have posted above?

You seem to be getting it muddled up with the Citizen Hearing....


Here's where it came from...published May 2010

http://www.ufocasebo...nhowerknew.html


That is not the Link I Provided back on this post Bee. And the original link was this one.

For one such a stickler on links, you seem pretty loose with them right now. I wonder why.........................

You know, when Hacktorp mentioned that he felt McElroy was dementia proof? It's your thread Bee, so your proclaimed on page 7. Can you try to keep yourself informed of what is in it please.



View Postbee, on 14 June 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

And I have speculated that the brief that McElroy Jr. saw might have been or come from, the report that ex CIA whistleblower

Anonymous and  his (then) boss  gave to President Eisenhower after they were delegated to go to Area 51 and S-4...to deliver a stern

warning and gather information about 'aliens'.....

Yeah yeah, been there done that. Old anonymous sources are a dime a dozen, nothing special there, I could come up with a few for you for Christmas if you like, would be a good present wouldn't it?

Anything NEW to add, or was this a nostalgia post?

View Postbee, on 14 June 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

The bit about that part starts at 6:53.....



and carries on in part 2


You know I don't bother with YT unless it seems promising............... and.... in the interests of showing courtesy, I'll say no more on that.

Gosh that place just sucks life from people. I am so glad to have it banned at my house. My kids get to see sunshine, I insist upon it.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who




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