8 Clips -Obama Promising Televised Healthcare

[acidhead]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2MOVhfNeBo

[Startraveler]

We already have an ongoing thread on this: Pelosi/Obama health care and transparency .

[Ignus Fatuus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2MOVhfNeBo

To get elected Obamas nose grew enough to replant our rain forests for a century. His promises mean nothing to him, he is only worried about his agenda.

Now he says that "the health care debate will be televised". Yes, all of one hour!!! A couple thousand pages of the bill and he expects the american people to get a clue from an hour of exposure? We need to stop these demons before they destroy america ... democrats and republicans.

Americans are so laid back that they cannot see what is coming for them. Its called a train!!!

[Ignus Fatuus]

We already have an ongoing thread on this: Pelosi/Obama health care and transparency .

Good ... put the clips over there. I am sick and tired of words coming out of the mouths of democrats and they deny that they ever said it or it was taken out of context.

As much as some of you have stated on this website that you are sick and tired of hearing about ... well I say again.

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!! !!! !!!

[Startraveler]

Now he says that "the health care debate will be televised". Yes, all of one hour!!! A couple thousand pages of the bill and he expects the american people to get a clue from an hour of exposure?

House Health Care Floor Debate

Senate Health Care Floor Debate

Enjoy.

[acidhead]

House Health Care Floor Debate

Senate Health Care Floor Debate

Enjoy.

Enjoy????????.... I take that as an insult.

You dis-honor yourself posting deceptive bs and pretending it means something.

Its a well-known fact RIGHT NOW that the negotiations have stopped and are being written up behind closed doors.

January 8, 2010

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2010/01/08/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry6073556.shtml

Democratic Senator Claire McCaskill of Missouri has joined Republicans in calling for negotiations to reconcile the Senate and House versions of health care reform legislation to be broadcast on C-SPAN.

House Speaker Nanci Pelosi, backed by the White House, has said the House and Senate were putting the final bill together "behind closed doors according to an agreement by top Democrats."

Republicans, noting that President Obama promised full transparency during his presidential campaign, have attacked that plan.

"The negotiations are obviously being done in secret and the American people really just want to know what they are trying to hide," said Rep. Tom Price, R-Ga.

Now McCaskill has joined the critics on the other side of the aisle. After noting that hundreds of hours of debate over the bill have already been broadcast, she said in a statement that "it's my opinion that we should open up any further negotiations between the House and the Senate to C-SPAN so the public can watch."

"I believe that the best way for these negotiations to occur is through the conference committee process, and I have communicated my opinion to the leadership of my party in the Senate," she said.

Democratic leaders want to pass the bill as quickly as possible, and they fear that the presence of cameras during the final negotiations could lead to a slowdown in the process.

They also are freezing Republicans out of the negotiations because the GOP is virtually united in its opposition to the bill and has sought to stall passage.

[Startraveler]

You dis-honor yourself posting deceptive bs and pretending it means something.

Do you dispute that hours of floor debate on the provisions of the House and Senate bills (both now passed) is easily viewable online? And, if so, do you believe I'm in with C-Span on this conspiracy to conjure the videos on the other end of those links?

[acidhead]

Do you dispute that hours of floor debate on the provisions of the House and Senate bills (both now passed) is easily viewable online? And, if so, do you believe I'm in with C-Span on this conspiracy to conjure the videos on the other end of those links?

More insults...

Startraveler... SCREW-OFF... I think were done.

You know damn well what we're talking about. Changing the subject is pointless.

[Startraveler]

I know precisely what I was responding to:

Now he says that "the health care debate will be televised". Yes, all of one hour!!!

I even quoted it in the post in which I responded to it. The debate has been going on and hours of video of it are available online. See above post.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Startraveler

[Ignus Fatuus]

Do you dispute that hours of floor debate on the provisions of the House and Senate bills (both now passed) is easily viewable online? And, if so, do you believe I'm in with C-Span on this conspiracy to conjure the videos on the other end of those links?

No doubt about it ...

First, they create an extensive, complicated bill with metephors and phrases which could be taken both literally and figurativly.

Second they pass it faster than a person who has overdosed on exlax

third, they take for granted that the people of the United States are too stupid and too slow to decifer the meaning before the bill has passed.

Lastly ... this bill will pass. After this not only can you count me on the jailmates who will not pay it but also this congress will have to go into hiding. When the people wake up to the agenda which is going on they are not going to be p***ed. They will radiate insanity. What is going to happen will not either way about it be good for the U.S. Bankrupt or in our second civil war ... no if's and's or but's about it!!!

I know how to live off the land and hide it at that ... what will the other millions of americans do???

Star traveler ... better travel to Andromeda!!! It will be your best chance.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Ignus Fatuus

[acidhead]

No doubt about it ...

First, they create an extensive, complicated bill with metephors and phrases which could be taken both literally and figurativly.

Second they pass it faster than a person who has overdosed on exlax

third, they take for granted that the people of the United States are too stupid and too slow to decifer the meaning before the bill has passed.

Lastly ... this bill will pass. After this not only can you count me on the jailmates who will not pay it but also this congress will have to go into hiding. When the people wake up to the agenda which is going on they are not going to be p***ed. They will radiate insanity. What is going to happen will not either way about it be good for the U.S. Bankrupt or in our second civil war ... no if's and's or but's about it!!!

I know how to live off the land and hide it at that ... what will the other millions of americans do???

Star traveler ... better travel to Andromeda!!! It will be your best chance.

They'll do what they always do.... follow the leader.

[Ignus Fatuus]

They'll do what they always do.... follow the leader.

You must be on some good acid!!!! That was the fastest reply I have ever seen ... and true.

Its just like the pied piper, leading the rats through the streets. Too bad its a dead end street!!!

[Startraveler]

First, they create an extensive, complicated bill with metephors and phrases which could be taken both literally and figurativly.

Metaphors? What are you talking about?

Second they pass it faster than a person who has overdosed on exlax

Since a bill can exist for no more than two years maximum, I'm wondering how long you think should be devoted to a bill? A full session?

The reality is that more time was spent on the markups of these bills than on any other bill in decades. Health care reform has been the primary issue in both houses of Congress for over six months. But more importantly, the work behind these bills began in the last session of Congress, with hours and hours of committee hearings being held on the policy ideas that came to make up the bulk of these bills.

[Ignus Fatuus]

Metaphors? What are you talking about?

Since a bill can exist for no more than two years maximum, I'm wondering how long you think should be devoted to a bill? A full session?

The reality is that more time was spent on the markups of these bills than on any other bill in decades. Health care reform has been the primary issue in both houses of Congress for over six months. But more importantly, the work behind these bills began in the last session of Congress, with hours and hours of committee hearings being held on the policy ideas that came to make up the bulk of these bills.

Metephore ... ever seen a corvette drive by and someone say ... "thats bad"??

Is it bad? Or good?

Words and sentences can be arranged to have many, many, many meanings. This is what this piece of crap congress is doing. First, hide behind closed doors. Second, create a bill which could be interpreted many ways and third ... hope we are idiots!!!

I made a friend from Japan Hiroshi. First time I ever met him I said "whats up"? He looked up to the ceiling and said ... "lights". I laughed my ass off. Words can be interpreted many ways and this Congress knows it. They are and have been screwing with words and pushing hard to pass a bill from behind closed curtians. I again am a democrat yet I know when an agenda is at hand.

Will america figure this out quickly or will those "evil" conservatives with "those guns" have to enforce simplicity??? Stop bum *** screwing around and either admit there is something wrong here or just do as you always do ... protect the jackass.

The choice is yours!!!

"

[Startraveler]

This is very vague. You seem to be operating in the abstract which leads to the absurd conclusion that you don't want future bills to be written in words. Is there something in particular in these bills you can point to to clarify what you're saying?

[Caesar]

This is very vague. You seem to be operating in the abstract which leads to the absurd conclusion that you don't want future bills to be written in words. Is there something in particular in these bills you can point to to clarify what you're saying?

I think the discussion is the metings with the Democrats in Congress and the Messiah. last I heard they were discussing what they were going to do with abortions, but then again its all behind closed doors. so who really knows.

[ninjadude]

I think the discussion is the metings with the Democrats in Congress and the Messiah. last I heard they were discussing what they were going to do with abortions, but then again its all behind closed doors. so who really knows.

Not sure what you're on about. A health care reform bill was PASSED in both houses of Congress after very long time of public debate. Now they are reconciling them to come up with a final version of the bill that has to pass both houses again. The time for debate and public discourse about the original bills is over. We are on to the FINAL bill that if passed will go to the President for his signature or not. The victors work out the differences. That's how our system works. I'm amazed at the lack of civics education in this thread.

[Ignus Fatuus]

This is very vague. You seem to be operating in the abstract which leads to the absurd conclusion that you don't want future bills to be written in words. Is there something in particular in these bills you can point to to clarify what you're saying?

????

Are you kidding me????

I have seen instances where Harvard graduates explain that they cannot understand the bill. All bills should be carefully written and simple.

The bill is way too long and "some" of its meanings can be interpreted many ways.

Absurd conclusion? Maybe a "Health care bill for dummies" book for us all!!!

[Startraveler]

I don't disagree with the spirit of what you're saying but you have to realize that the reason these bills are long is that they are carefully written. That is, they're written in legislative language. They're written very precisely with references to existing law, etc. There is one committee in Congress that writes and debates all of its bills in conceptual language (i.e. plain English); their health care bill was a little over 200 pages. The reality is that the final bills, in their legislative language, are so long because when the lawyers write something they use a lot more words than when the policy people write something. That's not some kind of trick, that's a necessity of writing a new law precisely and fusing it with existing law. Take a look at slightly older thread if you want a little more perspective on that. There've been suggestions that every committee follow the lead of the committee I just mentioned and start off with every bill written in conceptual language. And that's not a bad idea.

The ideas in these bills, however, are pretty easy to grasp. If you want to know what they are and follow their evolution through the legislative process, we've had some (I think) very good threads for that, too. Start with this one: What's IN this health care bill? Reform Made Simple. And if you want more up to date info after you've digested that, try this thread followed by this one.

[Caesar]

Not sure what you're on about. A health care reform bill was PASSED in both houses of Congress after very long time of public debate. Now they are reconciling them to come up with a final version of the bill that has to pass both houses again. The time for debate and public discourse about the original bills is over. We are on to the FINAL bill that if passed will go to the President for his signature or not. The victors work out the differences. That's how our system works.

Much of the discussion in Congress was behind closed doors but the point I'm trying to get to is the fact that most of the discussion between Congress and Obama is behind closed doors. Obama said that he would have these discussions open and shown on C-SPAN, on a website ect

Even C-SPAN contacted the WhiteHouse on hos

Gibbs Refuses to Address Question About Obama's Broken C-SPAN Promises

I'm amazed at the lack of civics education in this thread.

I'm amazed how so many people have to act dumb when defending the Messiah and all his men. its funny how dumb people like you and Startraveler look when defending his lies. talk about "lack of civics education"

[Startraveler]

its funny how dumb people like you and Startraveler look when defending his lies.

I'm not defending Obama's broken promise. It was a silly promise when he made it and it was clear that there was no feasible way to have every part of the negotiations on C-Span (even if they did do that, everything on the cameras would be choreographed, merely a polished re-enactment of things done in private). He shouldn't have said it and I haven't defended him for saying it anywhere.

What I've argued against is the absurd notion that this has been a completely closed process with no public debate. Few other bills have gotten this much public attention, scrutiny, and analysis devoted to them. C-Span has even helpfully sorted and categorized the hours of floor debate on each bill.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Startraveler

[Ignus Fatuus]

I don't disagree with the spirit of what you're saying but you have to realize that the reason these bills are long is that they are carefully written. That is, they're written in legislative language. They're written very precisely with references to existing law, etc. There is one committee in Congress that writes and debates all of its bills in conceptual language (i.e. plain English); their health care bill was a little over 200 pages. The reality is that the final bills, in their legislative language, are so long because when the lawyers write something they use a lot more words than when the policy people write something. That's not some kind of trick, that's a necessity of writing a new law precisely and fusing it with existing law. Take a look at slightly older thread if you want a little more perspective on that. There've been suggestions that every committee follow the lead of the committee I just mentioned and start off with every bill written in conceptual language. And that's not a bad idea.

The ideas in these bills, however, are pretty easy to grasp. If you want to know what they are and follow their evolution through the legislative process, we've had some (I think) very good threads for that, too. Start with this one: What's IN this health care bill? Reform Made Simple. And if you want more up to date info after you've digested that, try this thread followed by this one.

I agree with so much ... yet my problem, major problem is that I do not trust the Federal Government. Democrats (I am one) or republicans. With all of the economic problems, jobs, gas etc. I believe that the smaller problems would be a better fix at the present time. I have in the past went without health insurane and let me tell you I know what it is like. At the same time, I believe that it is not the job of others to pay for me. When we, the government keeps a nipple in the mouths of the people the people will suckle. This never allows one to grow and to take care of ones self. I know women who have babies just because it means more money for them ... heard it out of their own mouths.

I do not care about this for myself. As a teacher I have summers off and for 6 weeks of every year I take off into the Daniel Boone National Forest and besides my insulin and Glucometer ... take nothing else with me. I know how to live off the land. My family besides a few do not.

We need health care reform ... do not get me wrong. Yet I say let us try to fix a few flaws and spur competetion, then if that fails we can overhaul the system.

It is like taking your car to a mechanic and he says you have to have a new motor, yet all you needed was a new radiator. Sometimes misjudgement fixes major problems when only the smaller problems need fixed. I really, really, really do hate to agree with republicans on any issue, yet I believe they have this one correct. We need a new radiator ... not a new engine. The radiator could do what is needed. Cool off the engine that is overheated.

Cherrios to you for debate ... seems that we that disagree with the health care reform are not getting just that .. debate.

[Startraveler]

We need health care reform ... do not get me wrong. Yet I say let us try to fix a few flaws and spur competetion, then if that fails we can overhaul the system.

This is not an overhaul of the system. This is a package of insurance market reforms and financial assistance for people who don't get health care from their employer, along with a few limited experiments with reform of the delivery system. The system as it exists today isn't being changed; this is merely an effort to fill in a few holes (primarily related to coverage issues).

The perception that some fundamental change is occurring with our health care system is not correct.

[Ignus Fatuus]

This is not an overhaul of the system. This is a package of insurance market reforms and financial assistance for people who don't get health care from their employer, along with a few limited experiments with reform of the delivery system. The system as it exists today isn't being changed; this is merely an effort to fill in a few holes (primarily related to coverage issues).

The perception that some fundamental change is occurring with our health care system is not correct.

Yet they will not debate that this is not correct. If it is not then let them prove it. This is all that I and many others ask. I will agree that they have shifted the policies some, yet as I have stated before ... there are Ivy league graduates out there who still cannot make sense of it. I am glad it makes sense to you and I really, really hope you are correct.

Yet my gut tells me not so fast ... a debate to clear all the misconceptions up would just be the logical thing to do. It is like the global warming scene. A stated consensus yet it is far from being just that. This country was built on disagreement. Look at our founding fathers. History teaches this lesson, that we will agree to disagree. Yet as seen with "warming" and with "health care" their is no "agreement to disagree" ... only that you are wrong and we are going to fix "YOUR" problems.

Elephants and asses and corruption oh my!!! I trust my gut ... no jackasses with noses longer than Pinnochio's. I want to see! I want to understand! I want a simple explanation before we hand over 1/6th of our economy. Just simple logic to want so!!!

Anyway cherrios to you for your stance ... and again I hope you are right for the sake of our country and my family!!!

[Startraveler]

I don't know what you mean when you say you want a debate. As I've pointed out multiple times now (and even linked to on the first page), hours of floor debate over these bills has already occurred and can easily be streamed to your computer. There are countless op-eds discussing this bill, analysis on news sites and blogs (and on the Congressional Budget Office website), publications from think tanks, there were town hall meetings in the summer (though those were often disrupted) and so on. What else is there? What additional forms of debate can there be?

As for proving to you what's in there, that requires work from you. Others have already provided the information. In those threads I linked to above I collected links to summaries of the bill from the Congressional Research Service, analysis from the Congressional Budget Office, in depth summaries from the relevant Congressional committees, and so on. Falling back on the "unnamed people don't understand it!" excuse is a cop-out, as there are a great many experts on health care policy (or even simply dabblers) who do understand it and resources from reputable examples of such people are easy to find. The contents of these bills shouldn't be a mystery, the information is easily accessible. If you don't know what's in them, ultimately that falls on you. Again:

The ideas in these bills, however, are pretty easy to grasp. If you want to know what they are and follow their evolution through the legislative process, we've had some (I think) very good threads for that, too. Start with this one: What's IN this health care bill? Reform Made Simple. And if you want more up to date info after you've digested that, try this thread followed by this one.