My 2 cents about religion

[ZeroDifference]

After reading into a post titled "Why is it?" a question came into my mind that could have been asked on that same forum, but I decided to create a new one so that I could have direct input into the subject.

A person in that "Why is it?" post made a comment that God is a crutch, only the weak use him. I agree with part of his statement. I do personally find that God is a daily excuse. Merely a way to explain something that can't, or hasn't been explained, such as why someone died, why people were born with disabilities, or why people act the way they do. People say that God made them that way, or that was his plan for them.

Tell me, if there was a scientific explanation for why people were born the way they were, or why a person acts the way they do, then why would people still use God for their reasoning? They wouldn't. We don't say that the sun sets and rises because of a chariot pulling the sun across the sky (Helios), and that is because we know the scientific logical reasoning behind why it occurs. We no longer say that lightning and thunder is because of the gods being angry, and that is because we know the real reason why it occurs. It is because the sky is filled with + and - charges. When there is an imbalance in these charges, the + and - charges begin to discharge creating heat in the form of lightning. Hence, my reasoning for thinking that people use God purely as an excuse to make themselves feel better about what happened, or is happening. Some people say that they take responsibility for their own actions when a comment was made that “People are using God as a crutch and they say the reason my son or daughter died was because God meant for them to and not because they were driving recklessly or a sick person killed them.” I would agree with that statement as well.

Many people who dedicate themselves to God always say that he has a plan, or that this was what he wanted to do… but does it not say in the Bible that God gave the human race free will? How can we have free will if God is intervening and “having plans for us?” This is yet another reason why I believe people use God as an excuse. If you were a true follower of God, you would never use the phrase “Because it was God’s plan” because a true follower of God would believe that God gave us free will which would be contradictory to God having any power of intervention in our lives.

What I believe is that religion itself is purely a way to make people feel better about life. Think about it. How many religions are present across the world? How many different ways of “creation” are made by these divergent religions? Obviously not ever religion is true, so what makes people lean towards one religion more than another? I believe that it is their own pure feelings. People find a religion that suits what they WANT to believe in, not which religion is most logical, or which religion has the most proof of existence. Christianity is one of the longest running religions in history. But there were many before that made much more sense (at least to me) than Christianity.

Polytheism, I believe, would make the most sense, since at least that way it would be easily describable as to why something happens rather than just to say “God made it that way.” Yet notice how many religions are still polytheistic… not many. And that’s because we have proven much of what polytheism was created to prove (such as why the sun sets or lightning and thunder occur). Eventually, as time goes on, science will have proven other religions to be incorrect, and that will create new religions. So in essence, different religions are created to fit the modern day world. Can anyone tell me why, when it is 35 degrees outside, but the wind chill brings the temperature down to 25 degrees, why does water not freeze? (I’m sure there is a scientific explanation for that, I’m just using that as an example) but when a question comes up that cannot be explained, there will be a religion created to explain it. The only reason why Christianity has withstood the sands of time is because it is so vague that there is little to agree or disagree with. They use the same excuse over and over, and that is that God made it that way. But then you ask them “Why did he make it that way?” and all they can say is “Because he wanted it to be that way.” It’s just one big loop with them, and that’s why they are still standing, where as polytheistic religions have a god for individual occurrences, and once one of those occurrences is proven scientifically different, the religion itself crumbles because people then begin to believe that maybe the rest of the gods were not true either.

I guess over all what I’m trying to say, is that, Yes, I do find that religion is a crutch, but not for the weak, but rather for those who want to live their lives more comfortable. Religion itself is created to make people feel better about the world around them. There are many discrepancies in religion, such as:

In the Bible, God created a flood that lasted 40 days and 40 nights. He created this flood to erase sin from the world. If that is the case, why do people still sin? Why does sin still exist? I am not going to debate whether people are right or wrong about what they believe. They are welcome to believe what the want to believe, but I do think that they believe in the things that make them feel more secure about the world, and whatever religion explains the most of the world’s unexplainable mysteries, they don’t believe in religion just to believe in it. Religion is a security blanket that helps people cope with the world, hence, why people say “The reason he/she died is because God had a plan for them” or “It was their time.” I don’t think people are wrong for doing that, I think they should believe in what makes them feel good, and that is what I really think people do. Although an excuse not to blame themselves, or someone they care about sometimes, God makes people feel better about the world, and that’s why I personally think people believe in religion at all.

That’s my 2 cents, what do you all think?

[Athenian]

Yes, One must make themselves act and feel better before they can make the world a better place...

[skaisdead]

I think this brings into the play Pascal's wager, which is why Im a Christian. Pascal's wager states that it is better to a be a Christian than an Atheist, because if there is a god, you can go to heaven while the Aetheist cannot. However, if there isnt a god, then the incorrect Christian is no worse of than Atheist who is right. However, there are multiple religions, infinite if you think about it. But being a member if one religion, preferabnly one with a larger following is better than being an Atheist because there is a still a chance.

[ZeroDifference]

Pascal's wager states that it is better to a be a Christian than an Atheist, because if there is a god, you can go to heaven while the Aetheist cannot.  However, if there isnt a god, then the incorrect Christian is no worse of than Atheist

That's a good point Skaisdead. I personally am Agnostic, but I guess I would be in the same possition as Atheists.

But another question: So does this mean that you are Christian not because of your actual beliefs, but rather purely to secure your afterlife situation? (again I am not saying this is wrong, just trying to get input )

Edited January 29, 2005 by ZeroDifference

[zandore]

Very well put Zerodifference. I my self am a nonbeliever.

[skaisdead]

The way I see it, Why not. If its fake anyways I might as well play along in case it is right. Besides, its proven if a hell existed it would have exploded or frozen over by now.

[skaisdead]

This is a true story. This is reported by a graduate of the Univ. of Oklahoma School of Chemical Engineering, citing one of Dr. Schlambaugh's Final Test questions for his final exam of 1997. Dr. Schlambaugh is known for asking questions like this one on his final exam, "Why do airplanes fly?" In May 1997, the Momentum, Heat and Mass Transfer II Final exam question was, "Is Hell exothermic or endothermic? Support your answer with proof". Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Laws or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we postulate that if souls exist, they must have some mass. If they do, then a mole of souls also must have a mass. So at what rate are souls moving into Hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell it does not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for souls entering Hell, lets look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of the religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and all souls go to Hell. With the birth and death rates what they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of the change in the volume in Hell. Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in hell to stay the same, the ratio of the mass of the souls and volume needs to stay a1) If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter hell, then the temperature and the pressure in hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose. Or a2) If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase in souls in hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over. So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by Theresa Banyan during Freshman year, that "it will be a cold night in Hell before I sleep with you" and take into account the fact that I still haveNOT succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then A2 cannot be true . . . . .

Thus Hell is exothermic.

The student got the only A

[star_child]

The way I see it, Why not.  If its fake anyways I might as well play along in case it is right.  Besides, its proven if a hell existed it would have exploded or frozen over by now.

468925[/snapback]

i kinda agree with this point. Christians are supposed to be 'good' people so it cant be that bad. I have totally contradicted myself...

[Seraphina]

Tell me, if there was a scientific explanation for why people were born the way they were, or why a person acts the way they do, then why would people still use God for their reasoning?

Um...there is I think you'll find that genetics experts have, for some time now, knowns the cause of just about every birth defect and naturally occuring abnormality that can occur in humans

Unfortunately, thiests tend not to be interested in such things...but let's not go there:P

On a sidenote, I do believe that chosing your set of beliefs just to be "safe" is a very sad way to lead your life....I choose to be an athiest because, not only do I believe that the various scientific explanations for ourselves, and the world around us, make far more sense, but I believe it is far more important to make an attempt at being correct, and expanding your knowledge further, than merely choosing theism because it's "safe".

[whoa182]

Many people who dedicate themselves to God always say that he has a plan, or that this was what he wanted to do… but does it not say in the Bible that God gave the human race free will? How can we have free will if God is intervening and “having plans for us?” This is yet another reason why I believe people use God as an excuse. If you were a true follower of God, you would never use the phrase “Because it was God’s plan” because a true follower of God would believe that God gave us free will which would be contradictory to God having any power of intervention in our lives.

Your right, that is a clear contradiction of religious beliefs and reasoning

and

You are right about religion giving people hope and security in their lives.

I mean think about it. What is a more attactive idea

A ) You go to heaven after you die and you see your friends and family

B ) You die and thats it, you will neve awake or be concsious ever again.

So from that, I can say to myself.. I respect Life a millions times more now, because its the only 1 we get, we should do everything in our power and use our technology to prolong life. We should not destroy life, because its the only 1 we all get.

So it gives me more respect for life.

Think about that

Edited January 29, 2005 by whoa182

[skaisdead]

I'm not saying thats how i lead my life at all, religion is obviously a back seat issue in a majority of Human lives. I mean it's just nice to have that back up plan. If Jesus will forgive me anyways, he'll probably forgive me for this.

[ZeroDifference]

I'm not saying thats how i lead my life at all, religion is obviously a back seat issue in a majority of Human lives.  I mean it's just nice to have that back up plan.  If Jesus will forgive me anyways, he'll probably forgive me for this.

468963[/snapback]

I completely agree with Skiasdead. But now you bring up another point. You said that "Jesus will forgive me anyway." With that statement, that makes me more inclined to venture out to try out different things rather than stick with one religion or faith. You are completely right. It does say in the Bible that Jesus loves and forgives everyone, and if that is the case, how can there be Hell? If Hell is where bad people go, and Jesus forgives everyone of their sins (making them "good") then how can Hell exist, and who would go there if everyone is forgiven?

As well, if everyone is forgiven, then does it really matter that you follow Christianity at all? Say God did exist in Christian terms, and you were an Atheist, would you not be forgiven anyway and go to heaven?

[skaisdead]

exactly my point! so y bother in believing in Christianity at all!!...I mean it's bound to be a lot of wasted time if it's not true, so have fun and forget about it lol

[ZeroDifference]

Another question popped up in my mind while reading another post. People of Christianity say that they "serve the lord" right? And that Angels are heavenly beings (some say guardians, some say servants of God) but how or for that matter, WHY would any of those things exist? In the Christian faith, God is Omni-present and Omnipotent. If that is the case, why does God need servants? Why does he need others to do his bidding? God could make or break something in a fraction of a millisecond, so why do people consider themselves "Servants of God?" God needs no servants when he is all powerful. And when people consider themselves "servants" what exactly are they doing to serve him? Prayer??? If you really think about it, I would place it, that 85% of prayer is purely selfish wishes. "Oh lord, please help me in my time of need, help my brother, my sister, my friend, keep them safe etc. etc." So really, is it not GOD that is serving US? Not only as a means to explanation to things we do not understand, but also as a way of performing tasks normal humans can not do as easily, if at all? And who created God? in reality, WE did. We created him as a manifestation of our minds to make us feel better about the world around us. So in actuality, should it not him who is worshiping us as HIS creator?

[ZeroDifference]

I am trying not to be confronting in my message so don't get me wrong. These are just questions that are comming up that I feel I need answers to.

Edited January 29, 2005 by ZeroDifference

[scipherel]

I am a Roman Catholic who spent time with the Protestant and influenced

by Theosophical teachings. Spent long years deciphering the mysteries.

And who i am now ? NOTHING !!! not even a dust in the universe.

[ThePortal]

Zerodifference,

in reguards to your fist post. I could not agree more.

Religion often seems like a crouch or a way to explain unexplained phenomena. As for saying that everything is God plan etc...it is a very sad statement indeed and only blinds us from searching for the real truth. As I believe there is always an explanation for everything; we only need to find it.

You also said that religion was a was of thinking that would put our mind at ease and led us to live a better life in believing in an afterlife and a God. I think this is true too.

I am agnostic too, but there is still something that stops me from being an atheist. I do not follow any religion, but I find it hard to believe that everything is by chance. Everything seems to be following a certain pattern, grow, evolves. Its composition is so complicated and so beautifull, I find it hard to believe that no intelligence is at work here.

Further more, what is the point of life? what is the point of us having an intelligence to think and question?

I believe in intelligent design, from however or watherver, I dont think anyone really knows the answer. We can fantasize about all kind of possibilities but the truth is, we may never know until we reach enough understanding, as much as the intelligence design seems to demonstrate. Or maybe not.

But still I do not think it is naive to think that there is a God, or a higher being, or a purpose for this life. It would be naive thinking we hold the truth. Also it think it would be naive to think that everything is only by chance....even if it is by chance, how can you explain the formation of such complex life living in a very harmonious order.

I find religion only sad because it explains life and God as truth. People stop thinking for themself and stop searching and expanding their understanding. It becomes stagnant.

So thank you agnostic and Atheist who keep looking

theres my 2 cent too

[scipherel]

how can you explain the formation of such complex life living in a very harmonious order.

reminds me of my one favorite line by Kahlil Gibran's lotus 30 years ago.

[lightbeyondthedark]

I find religion only sad because it explains life and God as truth. People stop thinking for themself and stop searching and expanding their understanding. It becomes stagnant.

theres my 2 cent too 

469056[/snapback]

I am really glad this is just your opinion...

I am a christian but I have never stopped searching for answers, or truth... My understand expands everyday I am alive..

People generalize christians into a big mass of people that walk around with thier eyes closed and thier ears covered.. Just because someone has faith in something doesn't mean they are stupid...

Sure, alot of the things I believe in are far fetched... But I have faith and trust in my beliefs... But I never close my mind to anything... If I did I wouldn't be on UM talking to countless people with different beliefs...

Dont generalize people, christian or otherwise...

But thats just what I think...

[ThePortal]

I find religion only sad because it explains life and God as truth. People stop thinking for themself and stop searching and expanding their understanding. It becomes stagnant.

theres my 2 cent too 

469056[/snapback]

I am really glad this is just your opinion...

I am a christian but I have never stopped searching for answers, or truth... My understand expands everyday I am alive..

People generalize christians into a big mass of people that walk around with thier eyes closed and thier ears covered.. Just because someone has faith in something doesn't mean they are stupid...

Sure, alot of the things I believe in are far fetched... But I have faith and trust in my beliefs... But I never close my mind to anything... If I did I wouldn't be on UM talking to countless people with different beliefs...

Dont generalize people, christian or otherwise...

But thats just what I think...

469079[/snapback]

lightbeyondthedark,

I am sorry if I offended you, it was not my intention to offend anyone. I always try not to generalize, I made that comment on my understanding of religion and not generalization.

Religion people follow a doctrine, a way of thinking, an explantion of higher being, afterlife and life itself. They usualy follow the scripture to find meaning and truth in their lives. I dont doubt that many of them still search elswhere, but mainly religion claim to have the answer to about everything.

If I got religion wrong, plz let me know

[Monkyburd]

I myself am not of any religion, I more or less swish each one around in my mouth just to taste it, like a fine wine.

Anyways, I have respect for people of Faith. After all the proof against god, after all the reasoning and logic people have put up to discredit religion these people keep faith in it. That is comendable, faith in what you believe over all matters of contradictory evidence.

And since it is all unknown, belief is all we have. Logic, reasoning, and science are useless! pointless! worthless!...until we see proven evidence in either direction (highly unlikely). Faith is the strongest support of god.

[lightbeyondthedark]

lightbeyondthedark,

I am sorry if I offended you, it was not my intention to offend anyone. I always try not to generalize, I made that comment on my understanding of religion and not generalization.

Religion people follow a doctrine, a way of thinking, an explantion of higher being, afterlife and life itself. They usualy follow the scripture to find meaning and truth in their lives. I dont doubt that many of them still search elswhere, but mainly religion claim to have the answer to about everything.

If I got religion wrong, plz let me know 

469087[/snapback]

It all good portal... I wasn't offend, but thank you for saying that...

It is true, I look to the scriptures for answers... But I also believe there are so many other places to look... I think God would be dissapointed if I didn't use these other resources.

I could read a book about a tree, and know everything there is to know about it... But I can still learn alot by going out and examining a real tree... (i hope that made sense... lol)

but this is just what I think...

[scipherel]

theres my 2 cent too

On God's current exchange rate, that's 2 million dollars

[_hAiLO_]

Its good to express what you think .

My beliefs are very similar to lightbeyondthedark, I agree with him 100%.

There are my 3 cents .

[ThePortal]

It all good portal... I wasn't offend, but thank you for saying that...

It is true, I look to the scriptures for answers... But I also believe there are so many other places to look... I think God would be dissapointed if I didn't use these other resources.

I could read a book about a tree, and know everything there is to know about it... But I can still learn alot by going out and examining a real tree... (i hope that made sense... lol)

but this is just what I think... 

469101[/snapback]

yes it made perfect sense

I just wish that all would do the same. Some just dont look past the scripture and even then when proof that some scripture are wrong, they deny the proof and still believe in misunderstanding of life from past wisdom.

If everyone from religion would do as you do and be more openminded, I think religion would be a much better practice.

In the same lines as Monkeyburd says, where knowledge fails, Faith is there. But I personnaly believe that faith should only be a leaping bound until we understand its true properties.

Once again, I hope no one is offended by what I say