1012 replies to this topic

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

There is a lot of talk going on about flares again.

the people in Sonora Mexico that saw *something* could not have seen flares over Phoenix and here's why.

The A-10 with its LUU2 dispenser will drop the flare at 6,000 feet altitude.
the ignition starts at 3,000 feet and extinguishing at 500 feet.

The closest point in Sonora to Phoenix is too far away to see something at 3,000 feet of altitude

Also, there is the matter of mountains in Sonora and Arizona that are inconveniently in the way.

what a shame, huh?

I have not done the math to Nevada yet, it is getting to be pointless. But I might.

We'll see where this one ends up with the critical thinkers [cough] here


EDIT - furghetaboudit.


At about 18:55 PST (19:55 MST), a man reported seeing a V-shaped object above Henderson, Nevada. (wiki)

Henderson is about 250 miles away from phoenix. WAY to far to see anything at 3,000 feet altitude over Phoenix.

ta ta, critical thinkers.

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps, 25 October 2012 - 09:38 PM.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

booNyzarC, on 24 October 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

I don't know mate, but I really wanted to leave that meme up there...  Just like I'd like to upload this screenshot I have of last night's edited post...

I know it won't do any good though.  The numpty has me on ignore anyway, and no amount of sensible discussion is going to sway him even if he did bother to read the posts related to another point of view.  He'll just keep on trolling away, calling skeptical people 'sheeple', 'slo-mos', 'stupid', and whatever other nonsense he manages to yank from his hind end.  He proved that much in the train wreck of a thread about that Russian missile test.

Hey nimrod,,, the "NUMPTY" doesn't have you on "ignore" I'm just ignoring you, you DOLT.

"Sensible discussion" my ****. are you even capable?

please stop dazzling me with your brilliance

[Sweetpumper]

There were no flares that night.

[Slave2Fate]

Earl.Of.Trumps, on 25 October 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

There is a lot of talk going on about flares again.

the people in Sonora Mexico that saw *something* could not have seen flares over Phoenix and here's why..

Confused much?

The flares were never claimed to be over (meaning directly above) the city of Phoenix. They were over (meaning directly above) the Barry Goldwater test range. That you and others keep claiming this only shows how little you even understand the case in question. If it continues then it can only be because of deliberate misrepresentation which will be singled out and the Mods made aware of.

[bee]

.

A few pages back I suggested that the BIG 'thing' seen by many people could have been a Big Black Delta...

http://www.ufocasebo...triangular.html


and it seems I'm not the only one...

http://www.ufoeviden...nts/doc1200.htm

Quote

Since September 11, 2001, Kelleher says, UFO sightings have decreased, except for in one category: Big Black Deltas.
"We think this BBD [Big Black Delta] object may be a combination of lighter-than-air and aircraft hybrid technology," Kelleher says.
Imagine a black triangle longer than a football field that is able to move silently across the sky and seems to appear and disappear quickly.
"Currently we have 250 sightings of these objects in our database from all over the country," he says. "Superimposed on that map we have the locations of the air mobility command air force bases in the US."
Kelleher shows the mapand reports a clustering around certain bases, including spots in New Jersey, Los Angeles, Seattle, and of course near the famous Area 51 in Nevada known as Groom Lake.
"We have an interview from a person who claims to have seen one of these objects on the runway at Groom Lake," Kelleher says. "He said it was a gigantic triangular object on the ground."
Possible explanation for sightings
The BBDs are also thought to be behind the March 1997 sightings of strange lights over Phoenix, which were captured by several television new crews and tracked across the entire desert Southwest.
These proposed aircraft would be a good candidate for UFO reports because of their hypothetical quiet propulsion system, blimplike structure, and advanced stealth capabilities.
Electrochromatic displays are the key. The idea is to project images of the sky above an aircraft onto the machine's underbelly.
"There are a lot of indications that military soldiers have that kind of technology," Kelleher explains.
"They say you can see star fields in these. Some people even tell us if you really look, you can see the leading edge as it moves across the stars," Kelleher says.
So far the military is not confirming anything about the Deltas, but if past experience with the unmanned drones, the B2 Stealth Bomber, the SR-71, and other revolutionary aircraft is any indicator, the Deltas may be flying for years before anyone tells the public what they are.

^^^

The BBDs are also thought to be behind the March 1997 sightings of strange lights over Phoenix, which were captured by several television new crews and tracked across the entire desert Southwest.


I'm satisfied with this answer to the famous Phoenix Lights....

If you listen to the first part of the OP video...from about 12 mins to around 22 mins...the descriptions fit.

All the other stuff surrounding the events are probably just red herrings.....IMO





.

[bee]

Sweetpumper, on 24 October 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

Funnily Robert Bigelow was the founder of NIDS....


http://en.wikipedia....scovery_Science

Quote

The National Institute for Discovery Science was founded by Robert Bigelow as a way to channel funds into the purportedly scientific study of paranormal phenomena. They have done research into the area of cattle mutilation and also became the FAA's sole recipient for black triangle reports.^[vague] In 2002, NIDS issued a report which said the black triangles were U.S. military prototype blimps, a finding agreed to by other experts but not confirmed by the military

[booNyzarC]

Earl.Of.Trumps, on 25 October 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

Hey nimrod,,, the "NUMPTY" doesn't have you on "ignore" I'm just ignoring you, you DOLT.

Your loss.

Earl.Of.Trumps, on 25 October 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

"Sensible discussion" my ****. are you even capable?

Yes, I've tried multiple times with you and I get nothing back but nonsense.

Earl.Of.Trumps, on 25 October 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

please stop dazzling me with your brilliance

If you ever actually want to learn about this case, I'd be more than happy to assist with that education.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Slave2Fate, on 25 October 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

Confused much?

The flares were never claimed to be over (meaning directly above) the city of Phoenix. They were over (meaning directly above) the Barry Goldwater test range. That you and others keep claiming this only shows how little you even understand the case in question. If it continues then it can only be because of deliberate misrepresentation which will be singled out and the Mods made aware of.

serious question,,,

were the people in Henderson Nevada at 1,300 feet altitude able to see the flares over Goldwater testing grounds?

seriously.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

bee, on 25 October 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

.

A few pages back I suggested that the BIG 'thing' seen by many people could have been a Big Black Delta...

http://www.ufocasebo...triangular.html


and it seems I'm not the only one...

http://www.ufoeviden...nts/doc1200.htm



^^^

The BBDs are also thought to be behind the March 1997 sightings of strange lights over Phoenix, which were captured by several television new crews and tracked across the entire desert Southwest.


I'm satisfied with this answer to the famous Phoenix Lights....

If you listen to the first part of the OP video...from about 12 mins to around 22 mins...the descriptions fit.

All the other stuff surrounding the events are probably just red herrings.....IMO





.

I have never had a problem thinking that at least one of the  objects, the so-called "mother ship", could be man made.

The problem with dissenters in here is, they really won't commit on something existing, or if they do, they sure like to keep it secret.

Another Issue I'll raise is, Psyche has brought up the fact that different people had differeing points of view on the shape of said object (mother ship).

here's a little article on the variable swept wing aircraft.

http://en.wikipedia....able-sweep_wing

I only post it to say that the US *already* has a craft in production that can change shape on-the-fly.
Since the so-called "mother ship" was never identified, we do not know what it is and whether or not it may have some kind of capability
to also change it's shape and hence, appearance.

Translation...? Psyche's arguments saying the people should never be able to claim various shapes of this craft are unfounded at this point.

[booNyzarC]

Earl.Of.Trumps, on 27 October 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

serious question,,,

were the people in Henderson Nevada at 1,300 feet altitude able to see the flares over Goldwater testing grounds?

seriously.

Your mention of Henderson makes me think you are referring to one of the earliest sightings of that day.  If I'm not mistaken, it took place sometime around 7:55, correct?  Or are you referring to a different one?  It's hard to tell when you fail to provide source links for what you're saying.  Assuming it is the 7:55 sighting as I think, perhaps you should ask yourself why a sighting at 7:55 PM would have anything at all to do with the 10 PM flare drop.

Can you clarify your reasoning Earl?


Edit to correct time of Henderson sighting.  About 7:55, not 7:30.

Edited by booNyzarC, 27 October 2012 - 06:01 PM.

[Slave2Fate]

booNyzarC, on 27 October 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

Can you clarify your reasoning Earl?

Please do Earl, because it sounds like you are confusing the 'V' shaped object(s) for the 'flares' again. You are aware that there were two incidents on that day right?

Here, read the Wikipedia article. Even if you don't agree with the possible explanations given it will at least give you a decent run-down of the two incidents.

http://en.wikipedia..../Phoenix_Lights

Be aware also that the flares explanation is only for the 10 PM sighting. This was all covered early on in the thread.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Slave2Fate, on 27 October 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

Please do Earl, because it sounds like you are confusing the 'V' shaped object(s) for the 'flares' again. You are aware that there were two incidents on that day right?

Here, read the Wikipedia article. Even if you don't agree with the possible explanations given it will at least give you a decent run-down of the two incidents.

http://en.wikipedia..../Phoenix_Lights

Be aware also that the flares explanation is only for the 10 PM sighting. This was all covered early on in the thread.

To me, this is a very important point to look at and fully understand.

It is the US military - specifically, the USAF, through a spokeswomen, that explained the whole incident off as "flares"

It can be proven that the flares at 3,000 feet over the Goldwater testing range, the altitude of ignition of the flare, cannot be seen in Henderson - or even close to Henderson, despite the fact that Henderson is 1,300 feet of elevation.

What does this mean? it means the military is lying, it also means that people in Henderson seeing an object similar to what was seen in and around Phoenix, clearly saw a craft of some kind that was obviously moving around the region quite a bit. it was *not* flares as the military insisted.

Also, in formulating the max distance an object @ 3000 feet can be seen by an observer at ground level, you get an answer that works only if the topology is smooth, like the ocean. The people in  Sonora are so far away and the topology has mountains in their northern section of their state as well as mountains south of Goldwater testing Range in AZ, that I should think it impossible to see any flare activity in Sonora, period.

Now, one may come up with an explanation for what the people in Phoenix saw, but then you have to do something similar for what the people in Sonora saw, and again for what people in SE Nevada saw, and really,,, any part of Arizona that is outside the max distance of sight from the GT Range.

sounds like a lot of sightings that you would have to explain separately.

Occam's Razor likes the simple explanation - one or more unknown crafts flying around the region.


Yes, I was aware of two events, one about 8:00pm mountain time, and later around 10:00 pm.

All I am trying to point out is that no matter WHAT one does, there were sightings that cannot be sloughed off as "flares". can't ever be.

Also, I am looking at Prescott and Prescott Valley - north of Phoenix. They might also be out of range of seeing flares but I will have to calculate it.

[Slave2Fate]

Earl.Of.Trumps, on 27 October 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

All I am trying to point out is that no matter WHAT one does, there were sightings that cannot be sloughed off as "flares". can't ever be.

Nobody ever said that flares explained everything. The 'V' shaped object sighted all over the place has never been explained as flares.The flares explanation only applies to the 10PM sighting in Phoenix. Every other sighting anywhere else at any other time has nothing to do with flares. A formation of planes has been suggested for all other sightings of a 'V' shaped object. That is the distinction I'm trying to point out to you.

Edited by Slave2Fate, 27 October 2012 - 07:02 PM.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

Earl.Of.Trumps, on 27 October 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

I have never had a problem thinking that at least one of the  objects, the so-called "mother ship", could be man made.

The problem with dissenters in here is, they really won't commit on something existing, or if they do, they sure like to keep it secret.

Another Issue I'll raise is, Psyche has brought up the fact that different people had differeing points of view on the shape of said object (mother ship).

here's a little article on the variable swept wing aircraft.

http://en.wikipedia....able-sweep_wing

I only post it to say that the US *already* has a craft in production that can change shape on-the-fly.
Since the so-called "mother ship" was never identified, we do not know what it is and whether or not it may have some kind of capability
to also change it's shape and hence, appearance.

Translation...? Psyche's arguments saying the people should never be able to claim various shapes of this craft are unfounded at this point.

So we're asked to consider another aircraft that's been never revealed publicly and has been successfully kept secret since at least the 1990s, despite being, apparently regularly, seen in public. This is why the "secret aircraft" argument seems inherently implausible to me. The usual response to such objections that "We know that Earthyly aircraft exist, so they're automatically more likely", I'm afraid doesn't apply in this case, since all these "secret aircraft" are entirely hypothetical.

[booNyzarC]

Slave2Fate, on 27 October 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Nobody ever said that flares explained everything. The 'V' shaped object sighted all over the place has never been explained as flares.The flares explanation only applies to the 10PM sighting in Phoenix. Every other sighting anywhere else at any other time has nothing to do with flares. A formation of planes has been suggested for all other sightings of a 'V' shaped object. That is the distinction I'm trying to point out to you.