164 replies to this topic

[Amy the Mighty]

SSilhouette, on 24 October 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

For the purposes of this discussion we've talked about mental illness being obsession, suicide and murder.

Obsession, suicide and murder have about the same amount of relevance to being mentally ill, as being Chinese. Absolutely none. For the purposes of this discussion, you're welcome to demonstrate how clueless and prejudiced you are, but I would argue that others needn't lower their standards to your level.

[coldethyl]

Amy the Mighty, on 24 October 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

Obsession, suicide and murder have about the same amount of relevance to being mentally ill, as being Chinese. Absolutely none. For the purposes of this discussion, you're welcome to demonstrate how clueless and prejudiced you are, but I would argue that others needn't lower their standards to your level.

What state can 2 girls get married in?

[SSilhouette]

Quote

Obsession, suicide and murder have about the same amount of relevance to being mentally ill

There are two ways to look at that statement.  One is from a prosecutor's POV who would not want people getting off the hook for these crimes by pleading mental illness.  And I can understand that because we need a system of punishments that are harsh to deter these crimes [murder against the state, suicide against the Spirit].  Obsessions don't necessarily lead to crimes but we can agree they are, if persistent and affecting the wellbeing of the person afflicted, a mental issue.

The other way of looking at these qualities or behaviors is through common sense.  And in that arena I guarantee you the majority of folks see them as signs of mental illness.

And remember, we are talking about the dead.  Also, it should be expected that great traumas and shock can lead to mental instabilities.  What greater shock could there be than a sudden unexpected cessation of one's life?

[coldethyl]

SSilhouette, on 24 October 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

There are two ways to look at that statement.  One is from a prosecutor's POV who would not want people getting off the hook for these crimes by pleading mental illness.  And I can understand that because we need a system of punishments that are harsh to deter these crimes [murder against the state, suicide against the Spirit].  Obsessions don't necessarily lead to crimes but we can agree they are, if persistent and affecting the wellbeing of the person afflicted, a mental issue.

The other way of looking at these qualities or behaviors is through common sense.  And in that arena I guarantee you the majority of folks see them as signs of mental illness.

And remember, we are talking about the dead.  Also, it should be expected that great traumas and shock can lead to mental instabilities.  What greater shock could there be than a sudden unexpected cessation of one's life?

You do realize that most people who plead insanity or temporary insanity have their plea thrown out and that people who truly have mental illnesses are in prison instead of mental institutions where they could be helped?

Flying into a fit of rage or being shocked very badly are just that.  A person doesn't just instantly just develop a change in brain chemistry leading to bi polar illness, schizophrenia, OCD, PTSD, etc from a shock or flying into a rage.

[Cybele]

Amy the Mighty, on 24 October 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

Obsession, suicide and murder have about the same amount of relevance to being mentally ill, as being Chinese. Absolutely none.

Obsession--OCD, paranoid schizophrenia
suicide- bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, major depression, etc., etc.

I've no interest in talking about ghosts, but this statement is demonstrably false. Look up the definitions and brief summary statistics about any of these conditions. At a population level, suicide rates are much higher in people with the mental illnesses listed above (except OCD).

Edited by Cybele, 24 October 2012 - 07:46 PM.

[starlight1020]

coldethyl, on 24 October 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Flying into a fit of rage or being shocked very badly are just that.  A person doesn't just instantly just develop a change in brain chemistry leading to bi polar illness, schizophrenia, OCD, PTSD, etc from a shock or flying into a rage.

I would say having a shock or flying into a rage were effects not causes of those things.

Edited by starlight1020, 24 October 2012 - 07:53 PM.

[SSilhouette]

A cause of them could be the shock of dying and not being prepared for death.  Many people obsessed with things in the physical world are never ready to let go.  So even if their death was expected like a terminal illness, they may be so fixated on their obsession that death becomes meaningless to them and they are "stuck".

[coldethyl]

Cybele, on 24 October 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

Obsession--OCD, paranoid schizophrenia
suicide- bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, major depression, etc., etc.

I've no interest in talking about ghosts, but this statement is demonstrably false. Look up the definitions and brief summary statistics about any of these conditions. At a population level, suicide rates are much higher in people with the mental illnesses listed above (except OCD).

http://www.afsp.org/...549d77e6ca6aa37

States:

Most people with mental illness do not die by suicide.

It does also state that:

90% of people who die by suicide have a diagnosable and treatable psychiatric disorder at the time of their death.

http://allpsych.com/...ders/index.html

Included in psychiatric disorders are:  sexual dysfunctions, sleep disorders, eating disorders, substance abuse, etc.

It is a VERY wide spectrum.  Again, can be compared to asking if a ghost would have diabetes. IMO

[coldethyl]

starlight1020, on 24 October 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

I would say having a shock or flying into a rage were effects not causes of those things.

You might, but the psychiatric community would not agree.

SSilhouette, on 24 October 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

A cause of them could be the shock of dying and not being prepared for death.  Many people obsessed with things in the physical world are never ready to let go.  So even if their death was expected like a terminal illness, they may be so fixated on their obsession that death becomes meaningless to them and they are "stuck".

Why would someone with a terminal illness be classified as mentally ill?  What you state above, could be true, if you believe in ghosts but it would not have anything to do with mental illness.

[JGirl]

it's obvious that this thread is posing a question based on an incorrect assumption about mental illness.
mental illness is an inbalance in brain chemistry. it is a physical ailment that happens to the body. if you do not have a body you do not have a brain and you do not have a problem because you do not have a 'mental' state per se.
if the OP would like to finally concede that she is in error, that's one thing, but to keep this thread going merely to argue a point that she does not understand and refuses to understand (thereby continuing to knowingly offend those who suffer from this affliction) really puts an end to the entire discussion.

[coldethyl]

JGirl, on 25 October 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

it's obvious that this thread is posing a question based on an incorrect assumption about mental illness.
mental illness is an inbalance in brain chemistry. it is a physical ailment that happens to the body. if you do not have a body you do not have a brain and you do not have a problem because you do not have a 'mental' state per se.
if the OP would like to finally concede that she is in error, that's one thing, but to keep this thread going merely to argue a point that she does not understand and refuses to understand (thereby continuing to knowingly offend those who suffer from this affliction) really puts an end to the entire discussion.

Agree 100%.  Marry me.

[JGirl]

coldethyl, on 25 October 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

Agree 100%.  Marry me.

lol
sorry spoken for.

[AshenPhoenix]

You're coming from the angle that all paranormal events are infact the ghosts of humans who have passed on.  There are other entities then just human ghosts.

Anything on this subject is just speculation.  There isn't even a concrete definition of ghosts in the paranormal world of study.  Some will say it's the dead souls that won't move on, some say it's residual energy.  So it all boils down to personal belief & opinion.

I have several different theories.  One of my theories is that time is an illusion, that everything (past, present & future) is happening all at once but our brains can only process things 'chronologicially' one event at a time.  So some of these 'ghost' sightings may be an event that has 'looped' over the 'present' and is being received by human or electronic perception.

Scientific fact: Energy cannot be created or destroyed.  When we die our energy must go somewhere.  Does it take on a 'life' of it's own as a disembodied spirit?  Maybe.  Does it retain it's original human consciousness?  Maybe, assuming it had something to live for to remain in the land of the living.

Long story short, I don't believe ghosts are mentally ill.  I believe they are here because there is a motivation that keeps them here.  Just as most people have a motivation to keep them from killing themselves.  Does that make most people OCD? manic depressive?  ect.... no, it makes us human.  i.e. I believe that ghosts who remain are attempting to hang onto what threads of humanity they can and have no interest in ascending or being reincarnated.

That's my 2cents, don't spend it all in one place.  

[JGirl]

AshenPhoenix, on 25 October 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

You're coming from the angle that all paranormal events are infact the ghosts of humans who have passed on.  There are other entities then just human ghosts.

Anything on this subject is just speculation.  There isn't even a concrete definition of ghosts in the paranormal world of study.  Some will say it's the dead souls that won't move on, some say it's residual energy.  So it all boils down to personal belief & opinion.

I have several different theories. One of my theories is that time is an illusion, that everything (past, present & future) is happening all at once but our brains can only process things 'chronologicially' one event at a time.  So some of these 'ghost' sightings may be an event that has 'looped' over the 'present' and is being received by human or electronic perception.

Scientific fact: Energy cannot be created or destroyed.  When we die our energy must go somewhere.  Does it take on a 'life' of it's own as a disembodied spirit?  Maybe.  Does it retain it's original human consciousness?  Maybe, assuming it had something to live for to remain in the land of the living.

Long story short, I don't believe ghosts are mentally ill.  I believe they are here because there is a motivation that keeps them here.  Just as most people have a motivation to keep them from killing themselves.  Does that make most people OCD? manic depressive?  ect.... no, it makes us human.  i.e. I believe that ghosts who remain are attempting to hang onto what threads of humanity they can and have no interest in ascending or being reincarnated.

That's my 2cents, don't spend it all in one place.  

i enjoyed your post, especially the part i bolded. i have a very similar theory.

[coldethyl]

JGirl, on 25 October 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

lol
sorry spoken for.

All of the good ones are taken.