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Millions of poverty-striken Bulgarians ....


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#16    Render

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:40 PM

View PostMistydawn, on 11 February 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:


but I do feel that we have to look at the world as a "whole"  and if others need help, or can benefit from coming to our country, then so be it.

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View PostMistydawn, on 11 February 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

Don't you live in Benidorm?
Why would it make any difference to you?

Im just guessing that is exactly why ppl feel this concerns them, even if they don't live at all places at once.

View PostMistydawn, on 11 February 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

I think there is a lot of "divide and conquer" when it comes to politics, and simply blaming imigirants for all our problems is daft.

It's not about blaming migrants, people. Of course they're gonna go to the place where they feel they will have the best life. That just makes sense.
But it helps no one to put on the blinds and act like a messiah that's gonna help everyone if the infrastructure isn't in place to support this.

Think of it as a bridge, there's only so much weight it can carry...if you're gonna invite everyone on to it, eventually it will snap...and it wont take that long.
Especially in these times you create an extra divide, because ppl can already see the poverty in their own countries, and like it or not but for some people it stings when their government goes around helping migrants instead of its own people first. It may be shortsighted a bit, because of course the government is only trying to do good for all. But the negative sentiment towards migrants only grows as long as these feelings of certain envy exists. You can't just dismiss this.


#17    Mistydawn

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:48 PM

View PostRender, on 11 February 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

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Im just guessing that is exactly why ppl feel this concerns them, even if they don't live at all places at once.



It's not about blaming migrants, people. Of course they're gonna go to the place where they feel they will have the best life. That just makes sense.
But it helps no one to put on the blinds and act like a messiah that's gonna help everyone if the infrastructure isn't in place to support this.

Think of it as a bridge, there's only so much weight it can carry...if you're gonna invite everyone on to it, eventually it will snap...and it wont take that long.
Especially in these times you create an extra divide, because ppl can already see the poverty in their own countries, and like it or not but for some people it stings when their government goes around helping migrants instead of its own people first. It may be shortsighted a bit, because of course the government is only trying to do good for all. But the negative sentiment towards migrants only grows as long as these feelings of certain envy exists. You can't just dismiss this.

Well yes, I do agree with you in theory Render, but we or should I say the people of the country involved, vote the Politians in to government. If the Government doesn't do right, then just blaming new-comers to to the country can't be right.
Our goverments are our elective representitives, dear help us all!

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#18    Render

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:51 PM

View PostMistydawn, on 11 February 2013 - 10:48 PM, said:

Well yes, I do agree with you in theory Render, but we or should I say the people of the country involved, vote the Politians in to government. If the Government doesn't do right, then just blaming new-comers to to the country can't be right.
Our goverments are our elective representitives, dear help us all!

But are we really blaming new-comers? I sure am not...but perhaps others take a shortcut to come to a conclusion.
I just blame the insufficient infrastructure to support these people. It's not fair to them either to let them come to a country only to let them live in a shelter for years on end because there simply isn't a place for them. And without a real residence you can't get a real job and a myriad of problems ensue.

Edited by Render, 11 February 2013 - 10:52 PM.


#19    Soccergirl13

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:56 PM

Well not really imo. Usually it is the less evil that you vote for. For actual agendas the general public wont be asked for their opinion. I think we the people should have more say in the day today politics than just get to vote for a representative every couple of years, especially when the outcome of any party in the end doesnt differ much just their marketing schemes of what they stand for (and mostly never actually do)


#20    stevewinn

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 10:53 AM

since the EU adopted this open border policy the UK has become the social security office for millions of europeans from the poorer EU countries. the powers that be see this as a price worth paying to remain EU members. Billions of £ pounds are leaving our shores to benefit others. the whole thing is sheer madness. truth is if we want to reclaim our borders we have to leave the EU. if you want to remain in the EU we just have to accept the situation as is. the uncontrolled immigration from such places as Romania/Bulgaria. the only good thing that will come from this, is once the man on the street witnesses the coming events, they'll turn more people towards anti EU parties.

its long been my belief that due to the inept running of the EU it, with time will lead to the far-right gaining more credence and we are already witnessing it, in the last european elections the results lurched to the right politically, followed by gains in far-right parties such as the BNP from the UK, and the equivalent party in France, National front, lead by Le Pen, and now his daughter, cast our eyes to Greece and we see a rise in a truly Far-right party. Neo Nazi's. - it wont be long before we see the same surge in Italy and Spain. the EU are slowly creating what they sought to prevent.

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#21    Bonecrusher

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:23 PM

These Bulgarians are a bit of an unknown quantity...

I don't know much about the country apart from one or two things..
It's capital city is Sofia which does sound a bit effeminate.
The Black Sea's western coastline is in Bulgaria.
It has boundaries with Greece,Romania and some former Yugoslavian republics.
All the people's surnames end in V including current Fulham incumbent Dimitri Berbatov.
It's not part of the Eurozone so I can't see how Greece's recent ecominical collapse has led to be it poverty stricken.
And it used to be part of the Iron Curtain.
I'm not willing to judge a book by it's cover but four million of them.
That's half the population of London or double the one of Greater Manchester.
Maybe they could bunk down in the House Of Commons.

So simple question: Would you trust them?

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#22    keithisco

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:43 PM

... here's a thought - IF 4 million Bulgarians, and who knows how many Rumanians come here, you can bet your life that they will vote to stay in the EU if a referendum ever materialises.  If they vote Cameron, Clegg, and assorted cronies out at the next General Election then the UK remains in the EU (no other main party will allow a referendum)... So either way, those who want the UK to leave the EU are Royally Stitched Up.

What does this mean, taking the wider view, for Democracy when huge numbers of Economic and Poverty Migrants can dictate the course of State Elections? A State in which they have few or no roots, and even less Social, Cultural and Historic investment - but imbued with the Power to cast their votes..


#23    Bonecrusher

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:14 PM

I've had a sea change when it comes to immigration...

I used to be nonchalant and complacent on the subject.
I even had a notion this was proto- racism.
Because these Bulgarians are going to make the integrity of this nation even more fragile.
They have already brought some bad habits in the form of horsemeat.
But this issue has nothing to do with acclimation but sustainability.
There comes a tipping point and this influx of Bulgarian will drag us into the mire.

Btw I would have inserted a " goulash" pun if this was Hungarians.

Edited by Medium Brown, 13 February 2013 - 05:34 PM.

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#24    keithisco

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:27 PM

I think the UK has got to do the UNTHINKABLE in EU terms. Keep the restrictions in place, pay whatever fines are levied (or not pay them) by the EU. Pay them or not, that is the UK's choice. I have enough experience of the Rumanians and Bulgarians in Spain to know that they have no interest in integration (I am talking of Poverty Immigration, and Criminal gangs now) that I would put up very strict Immigration, points scoring, systems.

Of course, Cameron, and cronies, have totally refused to engage in this most important of debates, they are more interested in deflecting attention towards a (never going to happen) referendum on EU Membership, the Falklands, Scottish Independence et al.

Somebody needs to start a campaign on the UK.Gov website to get this issue properly debated, to get the concerns of the current UK Citizens voice out there. Dont come complaining on UM, just do it!!


#25    ali smack

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:00 PM

I think it's bonkers. I don't think they should be allowed in UK.
I think you should only be allowed to live in UK if
you are studying at university or college
looking for a job
getting a job/ have a job
or if your fleeing from a horrible place where you are getting tortured
But I don't think they should let in any tom, dick or harry in willy nilly.


#26    Wickian

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:31 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 12 February 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

... here's a thought - IF 4 million Bulgarians, and who knows how many Rumanians come here, you can bet your life that they will vote to stay in the EU if a referendum ever materialises.  If they vote Cameron, Clegg, and assorted cronies out at the next General Election then the UK remains in the EU (no other main party will allow a referendum)... So either way, those who want the UK to leave the EU are Royally Stitched Up.

What does this mean, taking the wider view, for Democracy when huge numbers of Economic and Poverty Migrants can dictate the course of State Elections? A State in which they have few or no roots, and even less Social, Cultural and Historic investment - but imbued with the Power to cast their votes..

The U.S. has been dealing with that problem for years now(illegal immigrants and their families).


#27    cultanorak

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:44 PM

Sorry the country is full. Last thing we need is more cheap labour from Europe we've got our own problems to deal with.

Edited by yearofthehater, 16 February 2013 - 12:13 AM.


#28    stevewinn

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:48 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 13 February 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

I think the UK has got to do the UNTHINKABLE in EU terms. Keep the restrictions in place, pay whatever fines are levied (or not pay them) by the EU. Pay them or not, that is the UK's choice. I have enough experience of the Rumanians and Bulgarians in Spain to know that they have no interest in integration (I am talking of Poverty Immigration, and Criminal gangs now) that I would put up very strict Immigration, points scoring, systems.

Of course, Cameron, and cronies, have totally refused to engage in this most important of debates, they are more interested in deflecting attention towards a (never going to happen) referendum on EU Membership, the Falklands, Scottish Independence et al.

Somebody needs to start a campaign on the UK.Gov website to get this issue properly debated, to get the concerns of the current UK Citizens voice out there. Dont come complaining on UM, just do it!!

Keith your warnings will fall on deaf ears and your first hand account of the events you've witnessed will ultimately happen here in the UK. were powerless. its going to be interesting come this time next year we'll see the impact of the first wave coming over.

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#29    keithisco

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:11 PM

View Poststevewinn, on 16 February 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

Keith your warnings will fall on deaf ears and your first hand account of the events you've witnessed will ultimately happen here in the UK. were powerless. its going to be interesting come this time next year we'll see the impact of the first wave coming over.

Unfortunately, you are entirely right Steve! Expect the criminal Gangs and People Traffickers first, that is what happened in Spain, then the Povrty migrants who will be used and abused by them to create misery for the native population. Freedom of movement is a wonderful concept, but there should be a requirement for individual nations to have Convergence in Social Attitudes (just like there is a requirement to have convergence on Fiscal matters)..


#30    ali smack

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 10:37 PM

We need to stop this madness





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