65 replies to this topic

[acidhead]

Helen of Annoy, on 25 December 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

You shouldn’t comment politics if you have never heard of Pravda. Have you heard of Russia at least?

You also shouldn’t try to whitewash crimes of Assad’s regime, for at least three reasons: first, the actual truth always pops up, sometimes sooner, sometimes later, but it does pop up. Ugly and dismembered as it usually is. Dead people don't go away just because you are willing to pretend their death was faked.  
Second, it’s immoral.
Third, that forces are at work, but you’re an idiot if you think Putin is against them.

It’s apparently too much for you to digest, but let me do my good deed of the day and try to slap you back to your senses: by siding against majority of Syrian people just because the West (in which you live, oh, thou hypocrite) is currently with them - you are not helping anyone but those forces you are trying to warn about.
It's not your fault that you can't understand much, it's the fault of that same West that people like you feel called to explain anything but why you go to WalMart dressed like unmedicated schizophrenics.

You know I don't know what to believe.  I have no clue from my position.  What I do know is either do you Helen.  It's emotionally charged rants like the post above which keeps me on the fence from choosing a side in a conflict with too many conflicting reports to make any sort of logical judgement call.  You just flew completely off the handle.  Get a grip woman.

[Helen of Annoy]

acidhead, on 25 December 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

You know I don't know what to believe.  I have no clue from my position.  What I do know is either do you Helen.  It's emotionally charged rants like the post above which keeps me on the fence from choosing a side in a conflict with too many conflicting reports to make any sort of logical judgement call.  You just flew completely off the handle.  Get a grip woman.

Why should I get a grip while some others are allowed to throw tantrums in form of bombs?

I’ll tell you why I react emotionally: back in 1990s, during “our” war, Serbs would, in front of international community, try to write off our reports and calls for help with similar “it’s faked”, “we are not bombing Dubrovnik, it’s the Croats burning tires”, “these were not wounded from Vukovar hospital, these were soldiers” and so on.
I do sympathize with people in the same position I once was in and I will show it.

Edited by Helen of Annoy, 25 December 2012 - 07:06 PM.

[captain pish]

I don't deny Assad has commited atrocities as had saddam, very doubtful of gadaffi. I look at things critically rather than blinkered as you do. Yes people were killed by Assad but you have to look at our role in it and what is being done in your name. Are you happy that were funding al Qaida? Are you happy that the mainstream media lies to you to push a political agenda? Are you happy to see serious tyrants in African countries able to commit genocide without mention from our leaders yet jump on any infringement of human rights if it adds to the empire? Aren't you outraged that the same guys who commited 9-11 attacks and are the reason for these unwinable money spinning wars are now the good  guys? Please I'm intersted in your views on this

[Helen of Annoy]

captain pish, on 25 December 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

I don't deny Assad has commited atrocities as had saddam, very doubtful of gadaffi.

Because Gaddafi and his crowd were so spectacularly lazy, irrational and incompetent they had to hire mercenary for everything, being unable to do anything themselves.  

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I look at things critically rather than blinkered as you do.

Quote

Yes people were killed by Assad but you have to look at our role in it and what is being done in your name. Are you happy that were funding al Qaida?

Our role? I’m not an American. So it’s your role. My position is much more like Syrian than yours.
And why are your administrations turning blind eye on Saudi funding of al Qaida is something you could tell me. (Not that I don’t know, but since you’re so into revolutionary discoveries, here’s your chance.)  

Quote

Are you happy that the mainstream media lies to you to push a political agenda? Are you happy to see serious tyrants in African countries able to commit genocide without mention from our leaders yet jump on any infringement of human rights if it adds to the empire? Aren't you outraged that the same guys who commited 9-11 attacks and are the reason for these unwinable money spinning wars are now the good  guys? Please I'm intersted in your views on this

I’m extremely happy with my intelligence that allows me to tell obvious propaganda from something quite real, and also to reconstruct most probable reality between lines of propaganda. From all possible sides. While you are clinging to strictly-for-domestic-use isolationist set of "questions" with "answers" cast in stone, which is fine for your own domestic use, but this is the wrong thread. Heeeelloooo. Wrong thread.    

The things I'm not happy with. I’m not happy with many things, your preaching combined with deep misunderstanding of matters about which you preach included.
But I’m in no way outraged with Syrians wanting Syria governed the way they want. It’s their country. I’m outraged with people who will disregard their suffering for their petty quasi-political goals.

In short, the al Qaida and the wars for oil and profit are probably the dirtiest chapter in the history of mankind, but that won’t be repaired in any way if you spit on the real dead victims by claiming their death was staged, faked or whatnot.
Learn to separate things, and face there’s no easy, one solution for the mess we’re in.  Face the truth that there are no good guys. Note already that in your fear of bad al Qaida guys you are supporting “good” dictators and at the same time you dare ask me what I think of other dictators that are – what? not your type of a dictator?!
How do you tell good from bad dictator? By moustache? But Putin has no moustache, that's confusing.

Now I’m off to bed, which I still have, unlike many Syrians.

[the L]

Hi the-Unexpected-Soul!

Im sorry about war in your country. I hope you and your family are well.
And sorry to say this but Im under impression that rebels are bad guys.
That they are payed and trained by CIA and France.
I just think that what happened in Libya was wrong so I would not just want to you that same scenario happened in Syria.

I have two questions.
Why rebels and officals dont sit on table and try to solve things?
Is it true that Iran army is active in Syria?

[the L]

Helen of Annoy, on 25 December 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

How do you tell good from bad dictator? By moustache? But Putin has no moustache, that's confusing.

I call it propaganda which you VERY much suck it. Sorry. I dont think you see whole picture. I see Russians as only reason (well not only but only one who openly talk about it) why we dont have "full spectrum dominance".
Also I notice that you mentioned oil wars and al Qaida then Putin and Russia so Im little confused. Is Putin and Russia guilty for oil wars? Because if so Im say that is bizzare view. So just want to clear our starting points before debate starts.

Why do you think Russia help Assad regime?
Why do you think that USA, UK and France are helping rebels?

Can you developed your view.

Im not expert on Sirya question but why would Russia act like nothing is happening when it does?
Why do you think that USA, UK and France can involve in one country policy and Russia, Iran cant? Isnt that double standards?


And most important how do you see this war started in the first place?

Edited by the L, 25 December 2012 - 09:15 PM.

[captain pish]

Helen of Annoy, on 25 December 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

Because Gaddafi and his crowd were so spectacularly lazy, irrational and incompetent they had to hire mercenary for everything, being unable to do anything themselves.  








Our role? I’m not an American. So it’s your role. My position is much more like Syrian than yours.
And why are your administrations turning blind eye on Saudi funding of al Qaida is something you could tell me. (Not that I don’t know, but since you’re so into revolutionary discoveries, here’s your chance.)  




I’m extremely happy with my intelligence that allows me to tell obvious propaganda from something quite real, and also to reconstruct most probable reality between lines of propaganda. From all possible sides. While you are clinging to strictly-for-domestic-use isolationist set of "questions" with "answers" cast in stone, which is fine for your own domestic use, but this is the wrong thread. Heeeelloooo. Wrong thread.    

The things I'm not happy with. I’m not happy with many things, your preaching combined with deep misunderstanding of matters about which you preach included.
But I’m in no way outraged with Syrians wanting Syria governed the way they want. It’s their country. I’m outraged with people who will disregard their suffering for their petty quasi-political goals.

In short, the al Qaida and the wars for oil and profit are probably the dirtiest chapter in the history of mankind, but that won’t be repaired in any way if you spit on the real dead victims by claiming their death was staged, faked or whatnot.
Learn to separate things, and face there’s no easy, one solution for the mess we’re in.  Face the truth that there are no good guys. Note already that in your fear of bad al Qaida guys you are supporting “good” dictators and at the same time you dare ask me what I think of other dictators that are – what? not your type of a dictator?!
How do you tell good from bad dictator? By moustache? But Putin has no moustache, that's confusing.

Now I’m off to bed, which I still have, unlike many Syrians.

You waffle on quite a lot without actually making any sense at all. I don't think there are good or bad dictators. It's quite black and white for me, you either have good or bad intentions. Simple. FSA have bad intentions, and i feel the consequence of al Qaida taking Syria is in my book far worse than if Assad continues, don't you?

Edited by captain pish, 25 December 2012 - 09:22 PM.

[the L]

captain pish, on 25 December 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

You waffle on quite a lot without actually making any sense at all. I don't think there are good or bad dictators. It's quite black and white for me, you either have good or bad intentions. Simple. FSA have bad intentions, the consequence of al Qaida taking Syria is in my book far worse than if Assad continues don't you?

Hillary: We came. We saw. He die.
About death of al Qaida leader.(IF? with capital)

Then same person gave money to terrorist organization and help to trained them and make deal with them. Same organization which done 9/11.



To answer on your question,

consequence of al Qaida taking Syria is in my book far worse than if Assad continues don't you?

Ofcourse it is.
In the end those people ruined twin towers. Made new Pearl Harbor. Imagine what would they done if they have state.

Wait a minute isnt reason why Nato is  in Afghanistan and why USA is in Iraq because of connection of al Qaida and those regimes?

Im confused.

Edited by the L, 25 December 2012 - 09:32 PM.

[AsteroidX]

Does the US trying to do covert small arms gun deals with the Syrians suprise anyone ? I mean last week they were talking about Gas. Now its missing arms dealers. Being returned suddenly unharmed. Its a 2 way street in most places.

[the L]

Im thinking they are making fun of us all. Thats my view.

Edited by the L, 25 December 2012 - 09:44 PM.

[the L]

M I only person here who was told that al Qaida done this?

Edited by the L, 25 December 2012 - 09:42 PM.

[the L]

Knowing some person which sit on opposite side of table I can already tell this will be interesting debate.

I see Helen took side and since she is a smart woman and I really like to hear her thoughts why she took that side. Aswell of those who press like button on OP.

Because I think that Syrians must solved they problems between themselves. Sit on table and talk. Decide what they want. And when others start to involve you get what you get. Others starts to involve.On both sides.

Edited by the L, 25 December 2012 - 10:12 PM.

[the L]

the-Unexpected-Soul, on 25 December 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

i personally don't Blame Russia for vetoing 3 times against a foreign military intervention (and i might be awfully wrong), becouse the same amount (if not more) of people Killed/injured that took more than 2 years now, it could've happened within two weeks or so, beside a possible complete destruction of the army, that if the army didn't beat the nato or at least make Bashar seem like a hero even if he die... but i blame Russia for continuing to support Bashar even until now, after witnessing his deeds.

but at least now the syrians own the revelution, and have build the freedom notion by them selves and not enforced on them, but Russia surly should stop supporting a dictator.

But you not blame support of terrorists to FSA after witnessung their deeds?  Is life of Syrians worth more then life of US citizens ?
al Qaida done some bad things but now they are helping us so they are good guys but Assad killing Syrians. Forgeting that those little bad things were actually living persons who also breed till moment al Qaida crashed airplanes full of living people into buildings full of citizens. Obviously it doesnt matter to you. Or it does. Im confused of your view.
Why dont you think that USA should stop supporting al Qaida and FSA?

Edited by the L, 25 December 2012 - 10:10 PM.

[Helen of Annoy]

captain pish, on 25 December 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

You waffle on quite a lot without actually making any sense at all.

Just because you can’t understand it, doesn’t mean the sense isn’t there.

Quote

I don't think there are good or bad dictators. It's quite black and white for me, you either have good or bad intentions. Simple. FSA have bad intentions, and i feel the consequence of al Qaida taking Syria is in my book far worse than if Assad continues, don't you?

No. No one has ever, since Big Bang, had pure good or pure bad intentions. There’s no black and white, people are not either salt either pepper, we are all mixtures. Each moment calls for certain mixture.

The way I see it, Assad is more pepper than the will of Syrian people. It’s up to them to decide who they will support. Then they’ll say if their choice was more salt or more pepper.

Now, morality, philosophy and other crap aside:
It’s not al Qaida, and even if it was, al Qaida is entirely US project.
If Assad continues far worse will happen: actual Russian military presence in Mediterranean will be proven as justified and useful. And where you give Russians a finger, they rip your arm off and beat you over the head with it.

It looks like both you and L are completely oblivious of nature of current Russian regime.   
You are ****en siding with Russians, you little... ah. Never mind. You, luckily, make no decisions.



L, you are spamming. Stop it. Boil your thoughts down in a post, wait for response and learn to make humanoid discussion already or you’ll be doomed to eternal ignoring.

[The New Richard Nixon]

the L, on 25 December 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

Knowing some person which sit on opposite side of table I can already tell this will be interesting debate.

I see Helen took side and since she is a smart woman and I really like to hear her thoughts why she took that side. Aswell of those who press like button on OP.

Because I think that Syrians must solved they problems between themselves. Sit on table and talk. Decide what they want. And when others start to involve you get what you get. Others starts to involve.On both sides.

Too late now, everyone's involved now, Russia, Iran, Turkey, Jordan, USA, UK, France, Germany and then Kurds who have hardly been mentioned at all so far.. Also the Venezuelans sending shipments of fuel