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Israeli MDs Harvesting Human Organs


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#1    Yamato

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:58 AM

Israeli MDs harvesting organs for international trafficking ring

Costa Rican authorities announced on Wednesday that they had broken up an international organ trafficking ring that worked with Israeli doctors and specialized in selling kidneys to patients in Israel and East Europe.

Full article:
http://www.haaretz.c...remium-1.530848

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#2    shrooma

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 01:12 PM

if organ donation after you died was mandatory, unless you signed an opt-out clause, this kind of thing wouldn't happen.

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#3    and then

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 01:32 PM

The Costa Rican government should prosecute them if it's a crime.  The Chinese seem a bit more casual about it.  I remember some kid selling one of his for an iPad.  It's sad for the donor to be so needy and the patients to be so desperate but if the doc is providing a service for both and there is consent, I'm not sure where the crime is.

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#4    shrooma

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 01:38 PM

View Postand then, on 22 July 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

if the doc is providing a service for both and there is consent, I'm not sure where the crime is.
.
i was kinda wondering the same thing AT.
there was a guy from my home town who had a kidney removed because he figured he had a spare one, and would donate the other to whomever needed it, without them having to wait for years & years until he died!
altruism at its finest.

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#5    Yamato

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 09:52 AM

View Postshrooma, on 22 July 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

if organ donation after you died was mandatory, unless you signed an opt-out clause, this kind of thing wouldn't happen.
You mean if organ donation was mandatory where this kind of thing happens, it wouldn't be happening where it does.   This kind of thing doesn't happen in plenty of other places.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#6    Yamato

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 09:56 AM

View Postand then, on 22 July 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

It's sad for the donor to be so needy and the patients to be so desperate but if the doc is providing a service for both and there is consent, I'm not sure where the crime is.
I could say the same thing about a plethora of needed goods going to Gaza.   So now we have a double standard for trafficking too, big surprise.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#7    Zaphod222

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 11:41 AM

View PostYamato, on 24 July 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

I could say the same thing about a plethora of needed goods going to Gaza.   So now we have a double standard for trafficking too, big surprise.

You are comparing kidneys to rocket parts?
It really takes a fanatic to make that jump.

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#8    and then

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:01 PM

View PostYamato, on 24 July 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

I could say the same thing about a plethora of needed goods going to Gaza.   So now we have a double standard for trafficking too, big surprise.
Lame - even for you....

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#9    Yamato

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:41 PM

View PostZaphod222, on 24 July 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

You are comparing kidneys to rocket parts?
It really takes a fanatic to make that jump.
Yeah the only thing Gazans need smuggle is rocket parts.

View Postand then, on 24 July 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

Lame - even for you....
What's lame about the truth, Zionist?

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#10    shrooma

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 05:36 PM

View PostYamato, on 24 July 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:


You mean if organ donation was mandatory where this kind of thing happens, it wouldn't be happening where it does.   This kind of thing doesn't happen in plenty of other places.
.
if it was mandatory worldwide Yam.
there are thousands of people on transplant waiting lists worldwide, and thousands of people dying each day.
if a resolution was passed, some sort of UN mandate or something, that everyone on earth should be considered an organ donor, but with each individual's right to opt out, then thousands of unnecessary deaths could be prevented, and the trade in organ trafficking would become obsolete overnight.
i fail to see how that would be anything but a good thing?

View PostYamato, on 24 July 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:


You mean if organ donation was mandatory where this kind of thing happens, it wouldn't be happening where it does.   This kind of thing doesn't happen in plenty of other places.
.
if it was mandatory worldwide Yam.
there are thousands of people on transplant waiting lists worldwide, and thousands of people dying each day.
if a resolution was passed, some sort of UN mandate or something, that everyone on earth should be considered an organ donor, but with each individual's right to opt out, then thousands of unnecessary deaths could be prevented, and the trade in organ trafficking would become obsolete overnight.
i fail to see how that would be anything but a good thing?

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#11    and then

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 07:29 PM

View Postshrooma, on 24 July 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

.
if it was mandatory worldwide Yam.
there are thousands of people on transplant waiting lists worldwide, and thousands of people dying each day.
if a resolution was passed, some sort of UN mandate or something, that everyone on earth should be considered an organ donor, but with each individual's right to opt out, then thousands of unnecessary deaths could be prevented, and the trade in organ trafficking would become obsolete overnight.
i fail to see how that would be anything but a good thing?


.
if it was mandatory worldwide Yam.
there are thousands of people on transplant waiting lists worldwide, and thousands of people dying each day.
if a resolution was passed, some sort of UN mandate or something, that everyone on earth should be considered an organ donor, but with each individual's right to opt out, then thousands of unnecessary deaths could be prevented, and the trade in organ trafficking would become obsolete overnight.
i fail to see how that would be anything but a good thing?
He's not concerned with the issue of transplantation, just Israel bashing, as usual.  I think the idea was to promulgate the image of profit driven Jew doctors maiming unsuspecting children... fits a certain narrative - never mind it's consensual and helps all parties concerned.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#12    Yamato

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 06:43 AM

View Postshrooma, on 24 July 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

if it was mandatory worldwide
there are thousands of people on transplant waiting lists worldwide, and thousands of people dying each day.
if a resolution was passed, some sort of UN mandate or something, that everyone on earth should be considered an organ donor, but with each individual's right to opt out, then thousands of unnecessary deaths could be prevented, and the trade in organ trafficking would become obsolete overnight.
i fail to see how that would be anything but a good thing?
Mandatory worldwide unless they individually opt out?   Who's going to enforce that, pray tell?   What a moral hazard to the NWO that would slippery slope into.

How about we make it mandatory worldwide for people to give up their estates and their life savings then?  So people in desperate need of whatever can get the help they need?  

Why stop at just human organs?   Because Israel did it?

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#13    Yamato

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 06:44 AM

View Postand then, on 24 July 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

He's not concerned with the issue of transplantation, just Israel bashing, as usual.  I think the idea was to promulgate the image of profit driven Jew doctors maiming unsuspecting children... fits a certain narrative - never mind it's consensual and helps all parties concerned.
As usual, I'm interested in finding good principle, not humping the Zionist excuse mill every time Israel gets caught in another crime.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#14    shrooma

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:28 AM

View PostYamato, on 25 July 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:


As usual, I'm interested in finding good principle,
.
it doesn't seem that way.
i gave you an example of a 'good principle' and you unsuccessfully tried to pick it apart, which i will show below.
.


not humping the Zionist excuse mill every time Israel gets caught in another crime.
.
it seems that way Yam.....
.

View PostYamato, on 25 July 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:


Mandatory worldwide unless they individually opt out?   Who's going to enforce that, pray tell?
.
it's the easiest thing in the world to "enforce" Yam.
most people, when they die, do so in hospital, or an ambulance, or in a situation where they can be taken to a hospital quickly, to remove the organs where they're still viable.
very few people die in the middle of nowhere, eaten by tigers, or are killed & dumped, and not found until they've rotted, most people die surrounded by people, and getting them to hospital is the weork of moments.
.


   What a moral hazard
.
the only hazard "morally" is the one that allows people to die unnecessarily when they could be saved, this plan would go a long way to, if not save them all, at least have a chance of being saved.
letting people die without trying to save them is morally reprehensible.
trying to save them isn't.
it's the core principle of the hippocratic oath.
.
to the NWO that would slippery slope into.
.
the NWO exists only in the minds of those suffering from paranoid delusions.
unless you have proof of it's existence?
and by "proof" i mean real, solid evidence, that can be seen & touched & examined of a secret cabal of people running the planet, not merely conjecture or hearsay or speculation or conspiracy theories.
.


How about we make it mandatory worldwide for people to give up their estates and their life savings then?
.
we do.
it's called dying intestate.
.
  So people in desperate need of whatever can get the help they need?
.
when someone dies in a state of intestacy, and they have no close living relative, the estate reverts to the crown/state, and under bona vacantia law it is divided up as necessary, with charities sometimes being the beneficiaries, so in a way, people do benefit from the mandatory taking of estates.
.


Why stop at just human organs?
.
because that was my point in question Yam, nothing more, and the point in question of the thread.
.
Because Israel did it?
.
no. "israel" didn't do it.
if you could see past your anti-semitism for a moment, and try to use a touch of objectivity, you'd see that just because the doctor was jewish, doesn't mean that "israel" did it, it means that HE did it, not a nation state.
and did what exactly?
the article quite clearly states that all organs were in fact given voluntarily, whether for financial gain or altruism is irrelevant, the fact remains that the organs were consentually given, and not stolen, and as far as i'm aware, there's no law forbidding the giving away of your own property.


Edited by shrooma, 25 July 2013 - 10:38 AM.

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#15    Yamato

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 12:37 PM

View Postshrooma, on 25 July 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

it's the easiest thing in the world to "enforce" Yam.
most people, when they die, do so in hospital, or an ambulance, or in a situation where they can be taken to a hospital quickly, to remove the organs where they're still viable.
very few people die in the middle of nowhere, eaten by tigers, or are killed & dumped, and not found until they've rotted, most people die surrounded by people, and getting them to hospital is the weork of moments.
I didn't ask who or when is going to cut the bodies up.  That has nothing to do with enforcement of a worldwide mandate.   Hospitals aren't authority figures, they're doctors, nurses and staff to run the medical facilities.   Who is going to enforce the mandatory global gutting of peoples' bodies? Who's going to pay for this?   Hospitals are among the most bankrupted and subsidy-reliant organizations on the planet right now.   Who's going to pay to house the millions of organs being collected every day and where are they going to be housed?  Who's going to set the global rules in how over 100 countries are going to administer this? This is logistically unprecedented and you've left every conceivable question unanswered for.  

Quote

when someone dies in a state of intestacy, and they have no close living relative, the estate reverts to the crown/state, and under bona vacantia law it is divided up as necessary, with charities sometimes being the beneficiaries, so in a way, people do benefit from the mandatory taking of estates.
Of course people benefit from the mandatory taking of estates that's why I asked.   How are you going to enforce that?   Who's going to pay for the global acquisition of life savings and estates?   Some people warn of the NWO and it seems silly at a glance but when we've got people as ready to embrace the globalism as you, these warnings start to make some sense.

Quote

.the only hazard "morally" is the one that allows people to die unnecessarily when they could be saved, this plan would go a long way to, if not save them all, at least have a chance of being saved.
letting people die without trying to save them is morally reprehensible.
The only moral hazard that you can think of   Yes, that would be reprehensible and when you ignore the money necessary to pay for these globalist ideas of yours it's easy to think that everyone's going to behave just right.

Quote

the NWO exists only in the minds of those suffering from paranoid delusions.
unless you have proof of it's existence?
and by "proof" i mean real, solid evidence, that can be seen & touched & examined of a secret cabal of people running the planet, not merely conjecture or hearsay or speculation or conspiracy theories.
The "NWO" doesn't exist in any formal capacity.  That hopefully won't change 50 or 250 years from now.   For now what smacks of the NWO to me are globalists who have no problem surrendering their estates, their relatives organs, whatever God knows who wants to some non-existent global authority to do with whatever they want.   You can't even administer your own ideas without an NWO because you can't mandate people to do things without force control.  Mandates require enforcement and you don't have a real answer for any mechanism of enforcement of this mandate.

Quote

because that was my point in question Yam, nothing more, and the point in question of the thread.
Yes and that's why I asked you why stop there?   As it turns out, you don't stop there.   At this point, where do you stop?

Quote

no. "israel" didn't do it.
Yes Israel is doing it.  Organs trafficking has been ongoing in Israel for many years before they even addressed it legally, and it continues to this day as we see in articles like this one.
http://en.wikipedia....gan_trafficking

Quote

if you could see past your anti-semitism for a moment,and try to use a touch of objectivity, you'd see that just because the doctor was jewish, doesn't mean that "israel" did it, it means that HE did it, not a nation state.
and did what exactly?
the article quite clearly states that all organs were in fact given voluntarily, whether for financial gain or altruism is irrelevant, the fact remains that the organs were consentually given, and not stolen, and as far as i'm aware, there's no law forbidding the giving away of your own property.
After dropping this load off on the board, you're antisemitic too so we're even on the accusation/insult exchange.  I know, everyone who has something negative to say about Israel is antisemitic to you, but someone who defends the oppression of Semites is also antisemitic.  I didn't say they weren't voluntary, I said that exchanges to Palestinians are voluntary too.  If that's what makes the color of right, then let's have a single standard here good enough for both.

Putting words in quotes like "enforce" means you don't think that mandatory global laws need enforcement mechanisms.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela




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