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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#1321    Abramelin

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:49 PM

The only word that comes close to OD is the English ODD:

From Middle English od, odde (“odd, single”), from Old Norse oddi (“third or additional number, triangle”), from oddr (“point of a weapon”), from Proto-Germanic *uzdaz (“point”), from Proto-Indo-European *wes- (“to stick, prick, pierce, sting”) + Proto-Indo-European *dʰe- (“to set, place”). Cognate with Icelandic oddi (“triangle, point of land, odd number”), Swedish udd (“a point”), Old English ord (“a point”).

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/odd

"OD" would then translate into Wralda's 'pointed thingy'...

Well, take your pick....maybe it means 'pecker'.


#1322    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:04 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 08 October 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

The only word that comes close to OD is the English ODD:

From Middle English od, odde (“odd, single”), from Old Norse oddi (“third or additional number, triangle”), from oddr (“point of a weapon”), from Proto-Germanic *uzdaz (“point”), from Proto-Indo-European *wes- (“to stick, prick, pierce, sting”) + Proto-Indo-European *dʰe- (“to set, place”). Cognate with Icelandic oddi (“triangle, point of land, odd number”), Swedish udd (“a point”), Old English ord (“a point”).

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/odd

"OD" would then translate into Wralda's 'pointed thingy'...

Well, take your pick....maybe it means 'pecker'.

Sounds like yod, Hebrew, dot on the i.

Didn't you see this?

The Old Norse noun óðr may be the origin of the theonym Óðinn (Anglicized as Odin), and it means "mind", "soul" or "spirit" (so used in stanza 18.1 of the Poetic Edda poem Völuspá). In addition, óðr can also mean "song", "poetry" and "inspiration", and it has connotations of "possession". It is derived from a Proto-Germanic *wōð- or *wōþ- and it is related to Gothic wôds ("raging", "possessed"), Old High German wuot ("fury" "rage, to be insane") and the Anglo-Saxon words wód ("fury", "rabies") and wóð ("song", "cry", "voice", "poetry", "eloquence"). Old Norse derivations include œði "strong excitation, possession".[2]
Ultimately these Germanic words are derived from the Proto-Indo-European word *wāt-, which meant "to blow (on), to fan (flames)", fig. "to inspire". The same root also appears in Latin vātēs ("seer", "singer"), which is considered to be a Celtic loanword, compare to Irish fāith ("poet", but originally "excited", "inspired").[2] The root has also been said to appear in Sanskrit vāt- "to fan".
http://en.wikipedia.....org/wiki/Óðr

To fan the flames - to grow, to rise - connected to the words Otharus then gave - to grow, to be fertile etc.

I don't think it's hatred once you pointed out that the conception came after that - just to clarify if anyone thinks I still did.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#1323    Van Gorp

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:01 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 09 October 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

Sounds like yod, Hebrew, dot on the i.

Didn't you see this?

The Old Norse noun óðr may be the origin of the theonym Óðinn (Anglicized as Odin), and it means "mind", "soul" or "spirit" (so used in stanza 18.1 of the Poetic Edda poem Völuspá). In addition, óðr can also mean "song", "poetry" and "inspiration", and it has connotations of "possession". It is derived from a Proto-Germanic *wōð- or *wōþ- and it is related to Gothic wôds ("raging", "possessed"), Old High German wuot ("fury" "rage, to be insane") and the Anglo-Saxon words wód ("fury", "rabies") and wóð ("song", "cry", "voice", "poetry", "eloquence"). Old Norse derivations include œði "strong excitation, possession".[2]
Ultimately these Germanic words are derived from the Proto-Indo-European word *wāt-, which meant "to blow (on), to fan (flames)", fig. "to inspire". The same root also appears in Latin vātēs ("seer", "singer"), which is considered to be a Celtic loanword, compare to Irish fāith ("poet", but originally "excited", "inspired").[2] The root has also been said to appear in Sanskrit vāt- "to fan".
http://en.wikipedia.....org/wiki/"ðr

To fan the flames - to grow, to rise - connected to the words Otharus then gave - to grow, to be fertile etc.

I don't think it's hatred once you pointed out that the conception came after that - just to clarify if anyone thinks I still did.

Interesting still.
Reminds me of the word 'woede' (as in rage), woeden.

Also meaning of 'woeden' (er woedt een vuur) -> broeien (Er broeit hier iets) -> something is growing, taking place
A raging fire, vuurhaard (beginning), broeinest, broeien,broeden: growing, ...


#1324    Abramelin

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:52 AM

Well, now you and Puzz should use the word you prefer in the sentence we are discussing.

(Wralda's) Od trâd to-ra binna: aend nw bârdon ek twilif svna aend twilif togathera ek joltid twên. Thêrof send alle maenneska kêmen.

(Wralda's) Od trad tot'r binnen, en nou baarden elk twaalf zonen and twaalf dochters, elke joltijd een tweeling. Daaraf (Daarvandaan) zijn alle mensen gekomen.

(Wralda's) Od entered them, and now they gave birth to 12 sons and 12 daughters, each yuletide a twin. From there all humans came.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 October 2012 - 09:56 AM.


#1325    Abramelin

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:10 AM

Ardor: heat of passion or desire
http://www.etymonlin...owed_in_frame=0

Fervor: heat, enthusiasm, ardor, passion
http://www.etymonlin...owed_in_frame=0


Suddenly I remembered a(n English) word I rarely see used anywhere: odious (and no doubt posted before in part -1- , but I haven't looked it up)

odious (adj.)
late 14c., from Anglo-Fr. odious, from O.Fr. odieus (late 14c., Mod.Fr. odieux) or directly from L. odiosus "hateful, offensive, unpleasant," from odium "hatred" (see odium).

This "odium" is what Ottema used for his translation of OD.

So instead of using 'vital force' , which really is Von Reichenbach's idea, we should maybe use "heat of passion".


#1326    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:26 PM

Yes, odium=hatred seems to be the base for odious. My old dictionary gives odium as hatred.

Was saying Yod sounded like od, and could also mean point, since it's a dot and found this about it:

..and Yod is part of every Hebrew letter (and therefore every word) Yod is considered the starting point of the presence of God in all things - the "spark" of the spirit in all things.
http://www.hebrew4ch...et/Yod/yod.html

If this yod meaning of spark is the same as od and the meaning certainly seems to fit - the od described as a 'spark' of Wralda's spirit - in all things, seems to make sense.

Since spirit is in the etymology for odr - also mind, body, spirit - to me, this seems to match in meaning - therefore an archaic meaning for OD could be the spark - that which creates the spirit of all living things.


Quote

Well, now you and Puzz should use the word you prefer in the sentence we are discussing.

(Wralda's) Od trâd to-ra binna: aend nw bârdon ek twilif svna aend twilif togathera ek joltid twên. Thêrof send alle maenneska kêmen.

They got excited by visions of Wralda - then were impregnated - by the 'spark' of God.   I need to have a look at the original OLB text in that part to get the context right, I'm not sure if I have it.

I know you have something for to-ra but tora is thunder and also goes through to Torah, Hebrew, interesting in itself.  to-ra is actually one word in the OLB text TORA.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tora
Tora in Finnish means quarrel. I see thunder as something that might create trouble, thunder, loud, quarrelling Gods but also a way God interacted with, whoever - Zeus is always throwing thunderbolts, the concept is there.

(Wralda's) OD/spark tread/made a path of thunder inside. Something like that - I'll work harder on it. Could be 'life' itself.
English

From Middle English trade (“path, course of conduct”), cognate with Old English tredan (“tread”);
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/trade

Edited by The Puzzler, 09 October 2012 - 01:35 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#1327    Abramelin

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:28 PM

OD has an assciation with ODIN as we all know, and ODIN rode on Sleipnirr, the 8-legged horse.

Well, look at this 'Friesian', and then think about what I posted concerning 'heat of passion', ardor, and fervor:

Attached File  Friesian.jpg   48.05K   4 downloads



http://www.unexplain...0


.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 October 2012 - 02:18 PM.


#1328    Abramelin

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:46 PM

To-ra are TWO words.

It's more like 'dunno' or 'don't know' which is actually three words. You don't go chopping 'dunno' up into 'dun' and ' no'?


#1329    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:47 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 October 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

To-ra are TWO words.

It's more like 'dunno' or 'don't know' which is actually three words. You don't go chopping 'dunno' up into 'dun' and ' no'?
Looks like one word to me...

Posted Image

tora in Faroese sounds a plausible word to be in Fryan imo.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#1330    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:01 PM

Utforkêrena Frya. Thâ hju-t sêid hêde, bêvade jrtha lîk Wr.aldas sê, Flylândis bodem svnk an grâda vnder hjara fyt dael. Thju loft wârt swart aend nylof fon târa to stirtane aend thâ hja nêi moder omsâgon, was hju al lang vppira wâkstaer. Thâ to tha lesta spraek tongar ut-a wolka aend blixen schrêf an thaet loftrvm, wâk

Exalted Frya! When she had thus spoken the earth shook like the sea of Wr-alda. The ground of Flyland sank beneath her feet, the air was dimmed by tears, and when they looked for their mother she was already risen to her watching star; then at length thunder burst from the clouds, and the lightning wrote upon the firmament “Watch!”

OK, târa here is a form of tear - tears

What word would you equate thunder with in the above? Tungar which sounds a bit ike thunder seems to be tongue in Frisian though...

so tôra is probably not exactly thunder but might be more quarrelling, like Finnish.
or tôra could be tore - or torn...
tor-n

, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Zorn; ne. anger; Hw.: s. tor-n-ich; vgl. ae. torn (2),

as. torn (1), ahd. zorn; E.: germ. *turna-, *turnaz, st. M. (a), Zwietracht, Zorn,

Zerrissenheit; s. idg. *der- (4), V., schinden, spalten, Pokorny 206; W.: nfries.

toarne; L.: Rh 1092a



Reminds me of being told it's Thor getting angry and hammering the sky when it thundered.

What word do you make of tora or to-ra then, what is tot'r?

Edited by The Puzzler, 09 October 2012 - 03:16 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#1331    Abramelin

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:03 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 09 October 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Looks like one word to me...

Posted Image

tora in Faroese sounds a plausible word to be in Fryan imo.

Like 'dunno'.


#1332    Abramelin

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:17 PM

This is the sentence:

(Wralda's) Od trâd to-ra binna: aend nw bârdon ek twilif svna aend twilif togathera ek joltid twên. Thêrof send alle maenneska kêmen.

You say 'tora' is one word. Why? If I look at your screenshot of the MS, the word could be tradtora...

But it's not, it's 'to' and 'ra'.

You have downloaded (or have links to) several Old Frisian dictionaries. I think you will have to look for the dative, something like 'to-hjara'.

Knul, where are you.


Anyway, you can come up with words from China if you want, but now fit them into that sentence, and see if it works.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 October 2012 - 03:17 PM.


#1333    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:22 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 October 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

This is the sentence:

(Wralda's) Od trâd to-ra binna: aend nw bârdon ek twilif svna aend twilif togathera ek joltid twên. Thêrof send alle maenneska kêmen.

You say 'tora' is one word. Why? If I look at your screenshot of the MS, the word could be tradtora...

But it's not, it's 'to' and 'ra'.

You have downloaded (or have links to) several Old Frisian dictionaries. I think you will have to look for the dative, something like 'to-hjara'.

Knul, where are you.


Anyway, you can come up with words from China if you want, but now fit them into that sentence, and see if it works.

.
'The screen shot could be tradtora but it's not TO RA imo - it's TORA - unless you can show me a better alternative.
If you think it's to and ra you should have an answer to what to-ra means, so what does it mean? It said tot'r in Dutch so what does that mean?
OK, to-hjara - Ill check it out. (thier?)

Because it looks like one word and related to tear, tore, torn etc to me.


--------------------
hjra/hjara appears to be 'her':

Falske Finda. Hüning swet wêron hjra wirda, thâ hok tham hja trjvwade wêre vnluk nêi by.

Raedbvwde Lyda. En store bâm kvn hju bûgja aend sahwersa hja run ne braek nêne blomstâl vnder hjara fyt.

---------------------------
This has 'Thêra' and 'tha ôra' - ôra seems relative to 'other' in these sentences...
Thêra hwam-his gâst that lestigoste sy aend thêrtrvch sterik, tham-his hône krêjath kêning aend tha ôra moton alwenna an sin weld vnderwurpen wêsa, til en ôther kvmth thêr-im fon-a sêtel drywet.
Whoever is the most crafty crows over the others, and tries to make them submit to him, till another comes who drives him off his perch.

Jes sêide Hellênia; tha rokka aend ôra
Yes, said Hellenia, but ravens and other birds

æ-r (õ-r)

, afries., Adj.: Vw.: s. æ-ther (other)

------------------------------

By the way, here's ord for POINT. OD. - with ANFANG.
or-d

14, afries., st. N. (a): nhd. Spitze, Ort, Stelle, Anfang; ne. point (N.), place

(N.); ÜG.: lat. lancea WE; Vw.: s. -ling; Hw.: vgl. got. *uzds, an. oddr, ae. ord, as.

ord*, ahd. ort (1); Q.: H, E, W, R, WE; E.: s. germ. *uzda-, *uzdaz, st. M. (a),

Spitze; vgl. idg. *øes- (4), V., stechen?, Pokorny 1172; idg. *d
hÐ- (2), *dheh1-, V.,

setzen, stellen, legen, Pokorny 235; W.: nfries. oerde; W.: nnordfries. od; L.: Hh

80b, Rh 970a

Edited by The Puzzler, 09 October 2012 - 04:22 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#1334    Abramelin

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:05 PM

It's a - what's the word in English? - contraction of TO and HJARA ('hiara').

So you get in Dutch 'OD trad tot hara/haar binnen' which we can shorten to 'OD trad tot'r binnen'. We say TOT, which is the same as your English or Frisian TO.

TO HER, TO'R.

Oh and HJARA is used in single and multiple cases, but I'll have to check that one.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 October 2012 - 04:06 PM.


#1335    Abramelin

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:32 PM

I was in error in my former post, but I was quite good at parsing (Dutch: zinsontleding) in highschool, but that was 40 years ago, lol.


Vrlêden jêr haeb ik tham ut-er flod hred tolik mith thi aend thinra moder
Last year I saved them in the flood, as well as you and your mother
Verleden jaar heb ik hen uit-(d)er vloed gered, tegelijk met jou en jouw moeder

Vmbe hja navt to vrlysa haeb ik-ra vp wrlandisk pampyer wrskrêven.
In order not to lose them, I copied them on foreign paper.
Om hen niet te verliezen heb ik-er op overlands papier geschreven

In the first sentence THINRA stands for a word which is the same as the German DEINER, or YOUR.

In the second sentence RA stands for THEM (my -ER or ZE in modern Dutch)


So, WRALDA'S OD TRAD TORA BINNA = Wralda's od tred 'to them inside'/'inside of them'.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 October 2012 - 04:56 PM.





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