danielost Posted October 26, 2009 #1 Share Posted October 26, 2009 i figuared if i only put fox news report on here nothing would happen so here are a few. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091026/ap_on_bi_ge/us_fact_check_health_insurance_11 http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/26/fact-check-health-insurers-profits-fat/ http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/10/25/national/w053256D27.DTL http://www.newsday.com/business/fact-check-health-insurers-profits-35th-of-53-1.1549028?localLinksEnabled=false http://www.miamiherald.com/business/breaking-news/story/1300634.html http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/SE/20091026/NEWS/910260346 even a local cbs channel http://www.wtvr.com/sns-ap-us-fact-check-health-insurance,0,4345220.story those are the reports comeing out today. they made a profit of 2.2 percent they are 35th out of 53. so tell me again how this is not about giving government more control over you. The latest annual profit margins of a selection of products, services and industries: Tupperware Brands, 7.5 percent; Yahoo, 5.9 percent; Hershey, 6.1 percent; Clorox, 8.7 percent; Molson Coors Brewing, 8.1 percent; construction and farm machinery, 5 percent; Yum Brands (think KFC, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell), 8.5 percent. if we really want to go after evil companies why not those up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted October 26, 2009 #2 Share Posted October 26, 2009 why do you start these threads with such an obvious endpoint? You get all of your health care for free, so why do you care? Me? I care because it is a pretty tough metaphorical pill to swallow when you are told that you are going to have to live the rest of your life in crippling pain because the insurance company won't opt for an extra $22,000(small money in the medical field)for a procedure that would stop the pain, simply because they choose not to cover the procedure. No other logic given, not because the procedure is dangerous or untested...simply because they chose not to cover it. They will cover a nasty metal link bolted between my vertebrae, a procedure with a horrible success rate, but the 22K just isn't worth it to them. My insurance company is public, and I can see how much they make. They did darn well. I paid my dues for many years, as did the rest of my department. My personal belief is that healthcare companies should all be nonprofits. Just me. You can't run around at the end of the fiscal year saying "weee, we made a ton of cash! the executives are multimillionaires again! We only had to have the worst death rate in the business! Who cares as long as I get my vacation house in cabo! So Daniel, it is very clear to anyone who wants to be healthy(and can't sit around on someone elses dime), that it sucks to pay into HEALTH insurance, only to remain sick while they continue to profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted October 26, 2009 Author #3 Share Posted October 26, 2009 why do you start these threads with such an obvious endpoint? You get all of your health care for free, so why do you care? Me? I care because it is a pretty tough metaphorical pill to swallow when you are told that you are going to have to live the rest of your life in crippling pain because the insurance company won't opt for an extra $22,000(small money in the medical field)for a procedure that would stop the pain, simply because they choose not to cover the procedure. No other logic given, not because the procedure is dangerous or untested...simply because they chose not to cover it. They will cover a nasty metal link bolted between my vertebrae, a procedure with a horrible success rate, but the 22K just isn't worth it to them. My insurance company is public, and I can see how much they make. They did darn well. I paid my dues for many years, as did the rest of my department. My personal belief is that healthcare companies should all be nonprofits. Just me. You can't run around at the end of the fiscal year saying "weee, we made a ton of cash! the executives are multimillionaires again! We only had to have the worst death rate in the business! Who cares as long as I get my vacation house in cabo! So Daniel, it is very clear to anyone who wants to be healthy(and can't sit around on someone elses dime), that it sucks to pay into HEALTH insurance, only to remain sick while they continue to profit. ok i have tried looking up your claim can't find it. so i need a link. i provided several. and everyone else who has started a thread supporting universal health care has not had you attack them for having an agenda. i may be getting kicked off because i dare stand up to a mod. but i will continue to stand up against anyone who attacks me like this because i have my opionion and it isn't theirs....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUEYOUTRUEME Posted October 26, 2009 #4 Share Posted October 26, 2009 For the people who just want to be taken care of and think that bigger government is the answer there are no facts that will change their minds. They would gladly trade their freedom for a promise of being taken care of. If the democrats get socialised healthcare will they stop there? I doubt it. They like t demonize all private profit and think that every activity should fall under government rule. From our energy use to our health care to our freedom of speech, on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted October 26, 2009 Author #5 Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) For the people who just want to be taken care of and think that bigger government is the answer there are no facts that will change their minds. They would gladly trade their freedom for a promise of being taken care of. If the democrats get socialised healthcare will they stop there? I doubt it. They like t demonize all private profit and think that every activity should fall under government rule. From our energy use to our health care to our freedom of speech, on and on. i know. but we had an example of that kind of country. they stood on line for days for a loaf of bread. there are people in this country standing on line waiting for food from the government but the most important thing right now is health care. if people are hungry health care won't matter. but instead of giving them food it would be better to give them a plot of land so they can work and earn their own way if nothing else by growing their own food. i used to have a yard clean up company. one day a local business hired me to clean up their empty lot. in the empty lot a couple had erected themselves a box house. i cleaned up the yard and hired them to help. so they had some money to go someplace else and at least have some money to buy food. also they kept the stuff they wanted to keep. instead of me just throwing it all out. Edited October 26, 2009 by danielost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted October 27, 2009 Author #6 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Often, the skewering gets results. In April, one county in Hubei province drew nationwide ridicule after officials ordered civil servants and employees of state-owned companies to buy a total of 23,000 packs of province’s brand of cigarettes every year. Departments whose employees failed to buy enough cigarettes or bou-ght other Chinese brands would be fined, the media reported. gee does this sound familier to this discussion. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/China-sets-new-rule-for-school-students-Salute-all-cars/articleshow/5166439.cms i got this from this thread http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=167284&pid=3141285&st=0entry3141285 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMelsWell Posted October 27, 2009 #7 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) i know. but we had an example of that kind of country. they stood on line for days for a loaf of bread. there are people in this country standing on line waiting for food from the government but the most important thing right now is health care. if people are hungry health care won't matter. LOL! First of all... we're the ONLY developed nation with no UHC. the ONLY one. No one in Canada, UK, Denmark, or anywhere in Europe for that matter, or Japan is standing in line for a loaf of bread for days. Are you aware that bread lines don't even exist in China anymore? Or Russia? That's a gross exaggeration you made... nice try, but no dice. I'm sorry people in the USA are hungry sometimes. Yes, this happens. However, I can DO something about that and I do too... even while I'm out of work. This is where the kindness of American citizens CAN be useful and realistic. We can donate to food banks, we can volunteer at food banks, we can band our communities together to feed those that need that kind of help. I'm sorry Daniel, NO ONE is going to pay my hospital bills out of the kindness of their heart... They might want to, but they aren't going to. Again, I worked for an Endowment for uncompensated medical care for little kids at a childrens hospital... even as HUGE as our endowment was, we couldn't even clear those kids bills for their parents... we could only do a little. Their families still suffered and quite often ended up breaking apart due to the financial burden. It's more than one family can handle. It's more than anyone can handle. but instead of giving them food it would be better to give them a plot of land so they can work and earn their own way if nothing else by growing their own food. I own land... a quarter acre of good land. But ummmmmm... it still won't give me health care and if I get sick I'm going to LOSE MY LAND! Do you get this? Does this concept even register with you? I mean HELLO?! Isn't this what I've been saying all along? But hey, if you want the government to give away land... that would be a neat trick... I'm about to sell mine. I'm listing it for 500K. Is the government ready to pay that? The current market is in my area. The gov't giving away land. That's seriously hilarious. i used to have a yard clean up company. one day a local business hired me to clean up their empty lot. in the empty lot a couple had erected themselves a box house. i cleaned up the yard and hired them to help. so they had some money to go someplace else and at least have some money to buy food. also they kept the stuff they wanted to keep. instead of me just throwing it all out. That's nice, it has NOTHING to do with health care. Edited October 27, 2009 by MissMelsWell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted October 27, 2009 #8 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) ok i have tried looking up your claim can't find it. so i need a link. i provided several. and everyone else who has started a thread supporting universal health care has not had you attack them for having an agenda. i may be getting kicked off because i dare stand up to a mod. but i will continue to stand up against anyone who attacks me like this because i have my opionion and it isn't theirs....... You tried looking up my claim? can you be more specific please? are you saying my health claim? Or that Blue cross did well? If you need a link, you can have many by googling "blue cross profits". If you want something more in detail, here you go: Details From another site: At the same time, of course, there is little promise of better coverage of medical bills. In California, the average claim-rejection rate is 1 in 5. In particular, the insurer has become known for routinely canceling individual policies of pregnant women and patients who are chronically ill. This led the state of California to fine Anthem Blue Cross $1 million.Site You don't have to deal with claim rejection as you get covered completely, but I do, and it is horrible. Some 50,000.00 horrible and the dust isn't even settled yet.The rest of these quotes come from the same site even though they are broken up from the site. But Anthem and Wellpoint had at least two internal initiatives to fund: multi-million dollar lobbying efforts to kill reform, and payment of plump severance packages to executives and highly compensated CEOs, such as Angela Braly, whose $10 million salary is augmented by off-the-books benefits and stock options. It was Braly who announced bluntly at a business meeting that the corporation puts profits over people: "We will not sacrifice profitability for membership. After killing reform in California, Anthem Blue Cross and its parent company Wellpoint target D.C:In California, Anthem Blue Cross is ever-present at legislative health committee hearings with its lobbyists registering objections at any and every proposed bill to regulate the insurance market to make it more fair to consumers. Most of the time, it wins -- as it did after spending $2 million on a misinformation campaign to kill Governor Schwarzenegger's health care reform package. That done, Wellpoint now has set its sights squarely on reform efforts in Washington D.C. So far, the Center for Public Responsibility has tracked lobbying expenditures of about $3 million for the first six months of 2009. It's a pretty safe bet that many more millions will follow before year's end and Capitol Hill's final determination of the shape of health care reform. Blue Cross reneges on Its policyholders, the very people to whom it owes its profitabilityNot long ago, in 2006, 10 former Blue Cross members sued the insurer, claiming Blue Cross had retroactively cancelled their coverage after illness or expensive medical conditions -- such as pregnancy -- surfaced. These policies were cancelled after consumers had been paying premiums for months, even years. The class-action lawsuit against the insurer grew to 6,000 former members who say the same thing happened to them.My link Blue Cross employees, under oath, admit that insurance policies undergo additional scrutiny if a patient has an expensive claim. Against state law, the company rescinded coverage after mistakes on applications were discovered -- mistakes, not fraud, which is the legal standard set by the state of California.My link Patients were often left with thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in unpaid medical bills for procedures that Blue Cross had previously approved before cancelling coverage. Doctors and hospitals eventually joined the class action lawsuit against Blue Cross to recoup some of those claims. Edited October 27, 2009 by Fluffybunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted October 27, 2009 Author #9 Share Posted October 27, 2009 bunny link doesn't work. also why would i care about profit when i said your health care claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted October 27, 2009 Author #10 Share Posted October 27, 2009 california the worlds third largest economy is broke because of all its social programs. 1 social program isn't too bad unless it is like the old welfare program the one that clinton tried to save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE MATRIX Posted October 27, 2009 #11 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Different Links Same old Article. Nice try though Daniel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 27, 2009 #12 Share Posted October 27, 2009 One thing to think about is that everyone is trying to make a profit. And few companies do that by being touchy feely nice. Look at phone companies... hose you over as often and far as they can. Banks... same thing. Overdrafts and stupid fees anyone? Internet companies... Same as the phone companies... hose you over on fees and bad service. Call to get your DSL fixed, and talk to someone half way around the world who barely speaks English who puts you on hold and then 20 minutes latter hangs up on you. Over and over. It is horrible, but so common. Why don't we have auto-insurance reform... I pay almost as much a month for that as I do for Health Care. Let's socialize everything, so that the 25% of our pay we get to keep can be used by us to decide which government approved Super Healthy Food we can buy and which of 4 Healthy locations we will be allowed to vacation in. Ahhh... to have the stress of choices taken from you... so relaxing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted October 27, 2009 Author #13 Share Posted October 27, 2009 One thing to think about is that everyone is trying to make a profit. And few companies do that by being touchy feely nice. Look at phone companies... hose you over as often and far as they can. Banks... same thing. Overdrafts and stupid fees anyone? Internet companies... Same as the phone companies... hose you over on fees and bad service. Call to get your DSL fixed, and talk to someone half way around the world who barely speaks English who puts you on hold and then 20 minutes latter hangs up on you. Over and over. It is horrible, but so common. Why don't we have auto-insurance reform... I pay almost as much a month for that as I do for Health Care. Let's socialize everything, so that the 25% of our pay we get to keep can be used by us to decide which government approved Super Healthy Food we can buy and which of 4 Healthy locations we will be allowed to vacation in. Ahhh... to have the stress of choices taken from you... so relaxing. i think the super healthy foods should be socialized as well. let me spend my 25% on hamburgers and sweets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted October 27, 2009 Author #14 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Different Links Same old Article. Nice try though Daniel. yes different links from different news agencies on the same article. and it is a new article not old. the different links was so you wouldn't be able to say it was just fox being funny again. and as pointed out one of the links was a local cbs station. nice try though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Thong Posted October 27, 2009 #15 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Daniel could you please supply us with your military background, you medi claims from not but 2 free heathcare providers that you claim to be caring for you. First your Military record a pic of something, you must have a piece of paper that says you were in the service. Medical records are private so unless you want to show them thats up to you. I want to see you prove you served? You started this thread not because of your disability but because you think it will effect the care you have now, am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Startraveler Posted October 27, 2009 #16 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Keep your government hands off mah Medicaid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted October 27, 2009 Author #17 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Daniel could you please supply us with your military background, you medi claims from not but 2 free heathcare providers that you claim to be caring for you. First your Military record a pic of something, you must have a piece of paper that says you were in the service. Medical records are private so unless you want to show them thats up to you. I want to see you prove you served? You started this thread not because of your disability but because you think it will effect the care you have now, am I right? no i lost the piece of paper. some 20 years ago. and i am not going to send off for it again. as for my two health care providers i use them as little as possible. in fact it has been nearly 6 months since i have gone into the va. and since december since i have used medicaid at the er. i started this thread because i don't think the government should be deciding who should and shouldn't be getting health care and what kind. also i don't think that my medical problems are more important than someone else's medical problems or lack there of. if they wanted to help me they would. as for me being a social security. i would be happy to get off of it if someone would give me a driving job. i don't drive big rigs. or someone put 300,000 in a bank i could live off of the interest. in fact it would be 300 more than i am getting now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjadude Posted October 27, 2009 #18 Share Posted October 27, 2009 so 2 percent of 2.2 Trillion dollars that is spent on healthcare according to Wiki in 2007 is about 44 billion dollars. That's one a$$load of profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted October 27, 2009 Author #19 Share Posted October 27, 2009 so 2 percent of 2.2 Trillion dollars that is spent on healthcare according to Wiki in 2007 is about 44 billion dollars. That's one a$$load of profit. i thought it was 1.5 trillion. Keep your government hands off mah Medicaid! i don't really care about myself. i hate myself just as almost everyone in my life does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted October 27, 2009 #20 Share Posted October 27, 2009 This was 15 years ago I was in the US Army, but the health care I got then was horrendous. Mostly it consisted of waiting in the Sick Call line for several hours, then they gave you a bottle of pain meds and wrote you a sick day slip. Did not matter what the issue was. Broken foot... pain meds. Cough... pain meds. Stomach cramps... pain meds. Foot rot... pain meds. VD... pain meds. Toothache... dental appointment in 2 weeks and pain meds. Fire ant bites... pain meds. Food poisoning... pain meds. It was really bad. The dentist in the Army was worse however. At least the medicos were trying to help. The dental people seemed not to care at all and it felt like you were just there for them to practice on. I had to go back and get the same fillings done over and over, because they either had sharp edges or fell out. I ended up loosing three teeth in four years, because of those dumb bas**ds. If I thought the government was capable of running anything so complex as a healthcare company, then I would vote for it today. The fact is that I have seen nothing in this or prior administrations that tell me they can handle such a project and do it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE MATRIX Posted October 27, 2009 #21 Share Posted October 27, 2009 no i lost the piece of paper. some 20 years ago. and i am not going to send off for it again. You lost it? See now I know you weren't really truthful regarding your military background. I still have mine and it was 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Thong Posted October 27, 2009 #22 Share Posted October 27, 2009 i don't really care about myself. i hate myself just as almost everyone in my life does. Daniel your wrong buddy people care about you, damn I do and that means a lot of other people care for you to. I would not want to see you hurt or suffer due to anything my friend and yes I mean that. We don't see eye to eye but dude your alright in my books. I like your different percpective however I will have to call you on some of it. This UM thing can be very helpfull and I have found this to be a sancuary of people that we can draw from. It's awsome we have this and I would hate to see you not post. You add to UM not take away. None of this is personal, sometimes maybe but hey, it's fun and it's what we do. Getting under someones skin, ya part in parcel but dude never let it get to ya. Come on I'm called the silver thong FFS LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMelsWell Posted October 27, 2009 #23 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) One thing to think about is that everyone is trying to make a profit. And few companies do that by being touchy feely nice. Look at phone companies... hose you over as often and far as they can. Banks... same thing. Overdrafts and stupid fees anyone? Internet companies... Same as the phone companies... hose you over on fees and bad service. Call to get your DSL fixed, and talk to someone half way around the world who barely speaks English who puts you on hold and then 20 minutes latter hangs up on you. Over and over. It is horrible, but so common. Because you don't NEED a phone or DSL. And if you need one, you can find deals for $20 a month. Not having one is not going to financially destroy you for the rest of your live AND if you need it, you can still get it. Why don't we have auto-insurance reform... I pay almost as much a month for that as I do for Health Care. Your car insurance is $658 a month and has a $5000 deductable? Then only covers you 70% after that? You have some LAME car insurance. I drive a convertible V8 sports car. My car insurance is less than $100 a month for full coverage and a $500 deductable, it covers me 100% after that. The $658 mentioned above is the quote I got to carry my own health insurance since I'm out of work (like I can pay $658 mth while I'm on unemployment LOL, Hell, I couldn't pay that even if I was employed and I make a damn good living.) What you're paying for in health insurance is what you get from your employer... who has a groups rate, who also chips in more than you pay in. And, you're probably still not fully covered. See Fluffybunny's story. The minute you lose your job, you'll be in my situation... not covered and putting EVERYTHING you've ever worked for and your entire future at risk. Let's socialize everything, so that the 25% of our pay we get to keep can be used by us to decide which government approved Super Healthy Food we can buy and which of 4 Healthy locations we will be allowed to vacation in. Ahhh... to have the stress of choices taken from you... so relaxing. I'm willing to give 10% of my wages to UHC... and there are millions like me. Every other developed nation in the world has UHC except the USA. The USA is the only country that lets it's citizens go BROKE because they got ill. No one in any of those countries have vacations or foods restricted do they? Again, with the exaggerations and attempts at scare tactics. Now let's hear your solutions. You must have some. This system is BROKEN as it is now. If I get sick tomorrow... I'm going to have to claim bankrupsy and lose my home to forclosure. You think that's an exaggeration? It's not.. I know two people it's happening to RIGHT NOW. Edited October 27, 2009 by MissMelsWell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMelsWell Posted October 27, 2009 #24 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) as for my two health care providers i use them as little as possible. in fact it has been nearly 6 months since i have gone into the va. and since december since i have used medicaid at the er. I haven't seen a doctor in 20 years. And I STILL want UHC. i started this thread because i don't think the government should be deciding who should and shouldn't be getting health care and what kind. So if your medicaid was yanked tomorrow you'd be ok with that? also i don't think that my medical problems are more important than someone else's medical problems or lack there of. if they wanted to help me they would. I don't have any medical problem and I'm healthy as an ox. I still want UHC. as for me being a social security. i would be happy to get off of it if someone would give me a driving job. i don't drive big rigs. or someone put 300,000 in a bank i could live off of the interest. in fact it would be 300 more than i am getting now. Welcome to the club. I am a software developer with 15 years of hardcore experience at Microsoft. I can't find a job either. Join the frickin' club. But lucky you, you get social security and medicaid.... I get a big fat NOTHING. Nadda, nadda, nadda. But because you have government services that I would NEVER get, you at least have a place to live. I'd be on the streets if I got sick. No home, no way to work, I'd be living in a shelter. Weeee, fun. If you think you could get a driving job, but need a CDL, go get certified... the government would probably pay for it to get you back at work. You can get medical insurance then that's not government paid... or can you? I have a friend that can't go back to work because no private insurance will cover her. She is FORCED to stay on the dole. She hates it. But if we had UHC, she'd go to work in a heartbeat as a CPA, and a damn fine one at that. In fact, I had lunch with her over the weekend... She is still working at a CPA, but not for money. She's been doing books and filing taxes for non-profit organizations for years. That way, in case we ever do get UHC, she'll have a current resume and will be able to get a job that actually pays her something. Edited October 27, 2009 by MissMelsWell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted October 27, 2009 Author #25 Share Posted October 27, 2009 You lost it? See now I know you weren't really truthful regarding your military background. I still have mine and it was 10 years ago. maybe it wasn't as important to me. or maybe it is in my moms basement with other things i considered to be important. all i know is i lived on the street for a year in san fransisco. i moved a lot. and there were things i didn't want to lose so i left them with my mom. she died about 10 years ago. but then with my depression nothing is really that important to me anyways. so go ahead and call me a lier because i haven't lived your life. all i know is the va can look it up on a computer and that is all that is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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