Is This Intifada 3.0 ?

[+and-then]

http://www.timesofisrael.com/air-force-strikes-targets-in-gaza-strip-2/?utm_source=The+Times+of+Israel+Daily+Edition&utm_campaign=7f516eb5b6-2013_12_24&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_adb46cec92-7f516eb5b6-54430521

Isn't it interesting how these back and forth attacks seem to always come at the same time as peace negotiations?

[Erikl]

There person who was killed today is Salah Abu Al-Tayel.

May he rest in peace, and his family know no more sorrow.

P.S.

Yes, he is an Israeli Palestinian (Muslim) who served in the IDF. Yes, Israel defends and retaliates on the killing of the each and every of it's citizens in the same manner .

This is to prelude the "Israel is an apartheid-genocide-nazi state" usual chorus that will commence as soon as Israel will attack in the Gaza Strip.

[Mr.United_Nations]

Hopefully the UN will block all future developments of israel's homes and war crimes, then there will be justice

[+and-then]

There person who was killed today is Salah Abu Al-Tayel.

May he rest in peace, and his family know no more sorrow.

P.S.

Yes, he is an Israeli Palestinian (Muslim) who served in the IDF. Yes, Israel defends and retaliates on the killing of the each and every of it's citizens in the same manner .

This is to prelude the "Israel is an apartheid-genocide-nazi state" usual chorus that will commence as soon as Israel will attack in the Gaza Strip.

I noticed just now that Hamas has scurried over to Egypt asking help to restrain the IDF in their retaliations. A Lebanese soldier kills an IDF member and nothing is done so a Palestinian decides it's open season. The common denominator here is death Of Israelis. If Israel strikes back they are condemned - if they refrain then more Israelis are killed. I'd rather be condemned than to bury my family and friends.

[SHaYap]

Label it 'terrorism' and then go bomb kids sleeping in beds ... great ... Guess they learned much from the Gestapo ...

When the smoke finally clears ...

‘If terrorists walk, so does Pollard’

With revelations from documents leaked by Edward Snowden that the US had spied on Israeli leaders, like it did to European officials, Israeli media are talking about the possibility that Netanyahu will push spy Jonathan Pollard’s release as part of the Israeli-Palestinian peace talks.

The main Haaretz editorial supports Pollard’s release, arguing that “many whose crimes are more serious than his, including murderers, are released after serving less time.”

“The effort needs to focus on achieving a quiet understanding on commuting the sentence to November 2015…One of Netanyahu’s predecessors said restraint is strength, and in this case Netanyahu can show that silence is prudence.”

Yedioth predicts that Netanyahu will condition progress in the talks on Pollard’s release. “The demand can be carried out in two ways: The release of the Israeli spy as part of the signing of the framework agreement the Americans are trying to achieve next month, or as part of a deal to release Arab Israeli prisoners.”

• timesOfisrael link
  

Bibi wants Pollard before he starts blabbing ...

[Erikl]

Label it 'terrorism' and then go bomb kids sleeping in beds ... great ... Guess they learned much from the Gestapo ...

Equating Jews to Nazis in this way is, well, bigotry. You prove again and again that many of the people who support the Palestinian cause do that just because they dislike Jews.

[acidhead]

Label it 'terrorism' and then go bomb kids sleeping in beds ... great ... Guess they learned much from the Gestapo ...

When the smoke finally clears ...

• timesOfisrael link
  

Bibi wants Pollard before he starts blabbing ...

we become what we hate

[SHaYap]

Equating Jews to Nazis in this way is, well, bigotry. You prove again and again that many of the people who support the Palestinian cause do that just because they dislike Jews.

You and BIbi's little league of Zionist Fascists can boo hoo hoo all you like .... I am among many Jews who finds Bibi the most despicable criminal there ever was ... and among many other non Jewish Semites ... we find Bibi the worse traitor to the great Judaic Legacy of culture and people ... hell most of my all time heroes and most revered human beings are Jews ...

Zionapartheidism is NOT anything Jewish and no Jews should be proud of it ... ever ... ask any Rabbi worth his tears at the Wailing Wall ....

~

[Erikl]

You and BIbi's little league of Zionist Fascists can boo hoo hoo all you like .... I am among many Jews who finds Bibi the most despicable criminal there ever was ... and among many other non Jewish Semites ... we find Bibi the worse traitor to the great Judaic Legacy of culture and people ... hell most of my all time heroes and most revered human beings are Jews ...

Zionapartheidism is NOT anything Jewish and no Jews should be proud of it ... ever ... ask any Rabbi worth his tears at the Wailing Wall ....

~

Great, a self-loathing Jew (if you really are Jewish) .

Edited December 25, 2013 by Erikl

[SHaYap]

Great, a self-loathing Jew (if you really are Jewish) .

Well apparently you like many among your ilk refuses to read properly ... though I sincerely doubt you even read at all ... though I do know this for sure ... you are the very type of Jew that knows next to nothing of Judaism ... and no ... I did not say I was Jewish ... just that I stand among Jews of proper Judaic values ...

And no we do not loath ourselves ... just you and those of your ilk ... Jew or not ... yes ... honestly ~

`edit - missing ' r '

Edited December 25, 2013 by third_eye

[+and-then]

Well apparently you like many among your ilk refuses to read properly ... though I sincerely doubt you even read at all ... though I do know this for sure ... you are the very type of Jew that knows next to nothing of Judaism ... and no ... I did not say I was Jewish ... just that I stand among Jews of proper Judaic values ...

And no we do not loath ourselves ... just you and those of your ilk ... Jew or not ... yes ... honestly ~

`edit - missing ' r '

Reading what you wrote in context I agree that it sounded as though you were classifying yourself as part of that group. Good luck with the name calling third. You realize that the PR campaign to remove legitimacy from the Jews of Israel is useless, yes? Or do you truly expect that this group who have tried so hard not to be condemned in the world would actually take those efforts to the point of national (and personal) suicide? Ultimately even the left in Israel will stop short of pulling a trigger on their own children when they see the Palestinians trying to bathe in the blood of Israelis in Tel Aviv or Haifa. Unfortunately it looks as though they will keep trying until a huge number will have to die and a near civil war break out over the displacement of settlers in Judea and Samaria before they will come to their senses.

[SHaYap]

Reading what you wrote in context I agree that it sounded as though you were classifying yourself as part of that group. Good luck with the name calling third. You realize that the PR campaign to remove legitimacy from the Jews of Israel is useless, yes? Or do you truly expect that this group who have tried so hard not to be condemned in the world would actually take those efforts to the point of national (and personal) suicide? Ultimately even the left in Israel will stop short of pulling a trigger on their own children when they see the Palestinians trying to bathe in the blood of Israelis in Tel Aviv or Haifa. Unfortunately it looks as though they will keep trying until a huge number will have to die and a near civil war break out over the displacement of settlers in Judea and Samaria before they will come to their senses.

Classifying ? Because I stand among those Jews - and non - that disagree with the current zionist regime ? YOu guys like to pot and pan the issue ... if you're not with me you're against me nonsense ... You want the same things we want ... hell everybody wants, but rhetoric such as yours and those alike yours makes things worse and it helps nobody, and yes ... its the same venomous poison that the 'radicals' and 'fundamentalists' uses ... Muslim or not ....

condemn ... pfffft ... to think you you've got the nerve ... suicide ? You have no idea ...

You think Bibi is afraid of Palestinians throwing rocks and fire bombs ? You think Bibi worries about the 'rain' of mortars and 'rockets' ? You keep speaking of the 'nuclear' option ... you are just blinded silly by your belief that it warrants a bloodbath and the destruction of the region so that this 'god' you have so much faith in will return only then ... you think JC will be slapping Bibi and his cohorts on the back with a thumbs up saying 'good job' ? You actually believes that JC condones and approves of what the zionists are doing to pave his path back for this 'second returning' ? You think JC is applauding and shouting with joy for every one that kills or be killed there ?

I mean really man ... You think JC will be saying then if that day does arrive ' I have come and thou shall sit at my right hand side for the judgement to come ' ?

YOu think Bibi will be there ? YOu think YOU will be invited to that eternal kingdom on earth ?

Name calling ? I haven't even begun to consider it yet ... and if I ever do .. it is not calling ... I stand as witness and will be testifying ... not calling names ...

~edit : elaboration

Edited December 26, 2013 by third_eye

[Sir Smoke aLot]

Example.

''Out with few friends going to a music show... Around 20.000 people are waiting for band to come out on stage. Suddenly someone fires a shot from gun and unfortunately kills one of the people from my group.

Dead guy's friend get angry and throw a bomb into all people to retaliate.''

Who was the killer of his friend? Where is he now? For what reason did he fire that shot at first place? Why did many more have to die?

Too many unknowns. And too much blood.

I mean, its so sad that a young man lost his life to a coward sniper but could things be done differently from Israel side? They could maybe, just maybe get meeting with palestine leaders and urge them to change something in their relationship... 22 year old man shot down should be more then a reason for Palestine leaders to feel shame and do something to change things to better. Same as should israeli. But they dont care.

The way things are happening i think and feel that lives of ordinary people are not important to leaders at all! Maybe they profit from this situation. Well its not maybe, they do profit. And when i compare some things with happenings in my country only logical conclusion would be that it is sad truth indeed - leaders dont give a **** for people because if they did care some things would not happen. God help all people with good hearts there.

'Some things will never change...' - lyrics from ''Changes'', song by 2Pac.

[+and-then]

Classifying ? Because I stand among those Jews - and non - that disagree with the current zionist regime ? YOu guys like to pot and pan the issue ... if you're not with me you're against me nonsense ... You want the same things we want ... hell everybody wants, but rhetoric such as yours and those alike yours makes things worse and it helps nobody, and yes ... its the same venomous poison that the 'radicals' and 'fundamentalists' uses ... Muslim or not ....

condemn ... pfffft ... to think you you've got the nerve ... suicide ? You have no idea ...

You think Bibi is afraid of Palestinians throwing rocks and fire bombs ? You think Bibi worries about the 'rain' of mortars and 'rockets' ? You keep speaking of the 'nuclear' option ... you are just blinded silly by your belief that it warrants a bloodbath and the destruction of the region so that this 'god' you have so much faith in will return only then ... you think JC will be slapping Bibi and his cohorts on the back with a thumbs up saying 'good job' ? You actually believes that JC condones and approves of what the zionists are doing to pave his path back for this 'second returning' ? You think JC is applauding and shouting with joy for every one that kills or be killed there ?

I mean really man ... You think JC will be saying then if that day does arrive ' I have come and thou shall sit at my right hand side for the judgement to come ' ?

YOu think Bibi will be there ? YOu think YOU will be invited to that eternal kingdom on earth ?

Name calling ? I haven't even begun to consider it yet ... and if I ever do .. it is not calling ... I stand as witness and will be testifying ... not calling names ...

~edit : elaboration

Third you should calm down - you're spouting so much obviously silly rhetoric THAT I DID NOT SAY that you are losing any credibility. It is becoming very predictable. Christians do not believe they need to do ANYTHING to "cause" our Lord to return. He made it clear that no one will know when - only the Father. And I have numerous times explained that I condemn the illegal and immoral actions sometimes taken by the Israeli government. Yet the charge that I blindly support everything they do continues to be repeated. Those who do so are LIARS. I did not say such things. You can continue to spew grandiose, condescending B.S. if you like but it really doesn't cause others to become more informed - amused, maybe - but not informed.

[+and-then]

Example.

''Out with few friends going to a music show... Around 20.000 people are waiting for band to come out on stage. Suddenly someone fires a shot from gun and unfortunately kills one of the people from my group.

Dead guy's friend get angry and throw a bomb into all people to retaliate.''

Who was the killer of his friend? Where is he now? For what reason did he fire that shot at first place? Why did many more have to die?

Too many unknowns. And too much blood.

I mean, its so sad that a young man lost his life to a coward sniper but could things be done differently from Israel side? They could maybe, just maybe get meeting with palestine leaders and urge them to change something in their relationship... 22 year old man shot down should be more then a reason for Palestine leaders to feel shame and do something to change things to better. Same as should israeli. But they dont care.

The way things are happening i think and feel that lives of ordinary people are not important to leaders at all! Maybe they profit from this situation. Well its not maybe, they do profit. And when i compare some things with happenings in my country only logical conclusion would be that it is sad truth indeed - leaders dont give a **** for people because if they did care some things would not happen. God help all people with good hearts there.

'Some things will never change...' - lyrics from ''Changes'', song by 2Pac.

Your logic (and it is good) falls apart in this conflict due to sheer repetition of actions from each side. Sir, the basic problem is that both sides want the land. Both sides believe it to be theirs by right and neither side is willing to compromise on certain points. The PR war is going in the Palestinian's favor and they have become more aggressive in pressing the Israelis. Anyone not braindead can see where this is going yet millions continue to actually hope that somehow, someway, Israel will just disappear. Usually they aren't honest enough to say so publicly but it is what they desire and believe. lly to make reasonable concessions, the Palestinians are always favored in that they give nothing and expect everything. This is not being honest as a broker. Do you believe that the Palestinians will make peace and stop agitating for more land if they reach a peace deal on the 67 lines?

[SHaYap]

Third you should calm down - you're spouting so much obviously silly rhetoric THAT I DID NOT SAY that you are losing any credibility. It is becoming very predictable. Christians do not believe they need to do ANYTHING to "cause" our Lord to return. He made it clear that no one will know when - only the Father. And I have numerous times explained that I condemn the illegal and immoral actions sometimes taken by the Israeli government. Yet the charge that I blindly support everything they do continues to be repeated. Those who do so are LIARS. I did not say such things. You can continue to spew grandiose, condescending B.S. if you like but it really doesn't cause others to become more informed - amused, maybe - but not informed.

Hehehe ... mayhaps you read me in the wrong tone ... glad you see the amusement of my statements ... and please ... I am not spouting ... nor spewing unlike others and you among them at times ... you see the mirror like image from the other side don't ya ?

See now you take everything stated is about you alone ... this is where you trip on your folly ... and is the source of much of my merriment.

Condescending ? Patronising too I presume ? Now why is that ?

See .. just because one knows or believes one is smart that does not in any way automatically reduces all and everyone else to stupid ... see ?

The same applies to 'right' 'honest' 'truth' 'factual' etc etc ....

'Informed' here is where I congratulate you man ... 'informed' is where I am coming from and what I'm bringing ... though I must say I am somewhat peeved and slightly insulted by your insinuation of grandiosity on my part ... but no fear ... I will survive it ... and I forgive you ...

~edit - lost track

Edited December 26, 2013 by third_eye

[Sir Smoke aLot]

Your logic (and it is good) falls apart in this conflict due to sheer repetition of actions from each side. Sir, the basic problem is that both sides want the land. Both sides believe it to be theirs by right and neither side is willing to compromise on certain points. The PR war is going in the Palestinian's favor and they have become more aggressive in pressing the Israelis. Anyone not braindead can see where this is going yet millions continue to actually hope that somehow, someway, Israel will just disappear. Usually they aren't honest enough to say so publicly but it is what they desire and believe. lly to make reasonable concessions, the Palestinians are always favored in that they give nothing and expect everything. This is not being honest as a broker. Do you believe that the Palestinians will make peace and stop agitating for more land if they reach a peace deal on the 67 lines?

If they would reach peace treaty that would return palestinians country under 1967 borders that should be a good starting point for making final peace in that part of the world. But as i have said i think that no leader there would like to see their countries in peace.

As for 'palestinians give out nothing and expect everything' it was their land at first place, but now its too late to ask for all of it. There is enough land for both people to live.

We must take into account many more things. This war that is raging there have its roots in many things, from colonial powers to world wars. Very hard subject but truth is ordinary people die and no solution can be seen in near future

[Erikl]

Well apparently you like many among your ilk refuses to read properly ... though I sincerely doubt you even read at all ... though I do know this for sure ... you are the very type of Jew that knows next to nothing of Judaism ... and no ... I did not say I was Jewish ... just that I stand among Jews of proper Judaic values ...

And no we do not loath ourselves ... just you and those of your ilk ... Jew or not ... yes ... honestly ~

`edit - missing ' r '

Actually, you did say:

I am among many Jews who finds Bibi

So you can understand why I thought you were Jewish (something I didn't assume after your first post).

Also, self-hating as a mean to get approval from the non-Jewish majority is something of a sickness among our people, unfortunately.

I am a reform secular Jew, indeed I'm not religious in any way (I eat pork, drive on Saturday, used to had sex with non-Jews before I got married etc.) other than the belief in God. I'm also a third degree freemason (Master Mason). So now you have yourself Judeo-Masonic conspiracy to throw into the flame .

And you can also blame me with war crimes, as I am an IAF captain in reserve.

I'm also a hard-core liberal, even libertarian, and am for almost to no government intervention what so ever. And I never voted for Bibi - in all the election campaigns I participated since I was 18 I voted further right than Bibi's party. Being that both of my parents experienced communism, I grew up with some wonderful stories about this ideology, so I'm a dedicated anti-Communist. So your likely socialist heart might hate me even more.

On the other side, my direct boss at work is a Muslim Palestinian, my best friend is gay and about to marry his partner (and asked me to be his best man), and I used to smoke pot on more than one occasion.

And other than my masonic membership, I'm not that unusual of an Israeli.

So now that we covered exactly who I am and what I am (not that it's any of your business), I will tell you that your posts here are borderline antisemitic (oh no, I used THAT card), when you compare Jews to Nazis (how and what exactly did we learn from the Gestapo?), when your overall language suggests you are filled with hatred when it comes to Jews and Israel. So you can just keep on ranting etc..

[Erikl]

If they would reach peace treaty that would return palestinians country under 1967 borders that should be a good starting point for making final peace in that part of the world. But as i have said i think that no leader there would like to see their countries in peace.

The problem is there is absolutely no discussion what so ever in Palestinian society about the "refugees" returning only to the West Bank or Gaza (the future suggested territory of a Palestinian state). No. They are indoctrinated to aspire to return to Haifa, Jaffa and other Israeli cities. Heck, there are even refugee camps under Palestinian self-rule that they refuse to dismantle and resettle in normal cities for this reason. Also, there is the problem that the vast majority of these refugees are not really refugees - they are descedants of refugees, deprived of citizenship in every country but Israel (and some in Jordan).

This is why they grew from 600-700 thousand back in 1948, to 5 million today. Now what would happen to a democratic Israel if 5 million Palestinians will suddenly be allowed in? Mind you, Israel's population is 8 million today.

As for 'palestinians give out nothing and expect everything' it was their land at first place, but now its too late to ask for all of it. There is enough land for both people to live.

It was not their land. This is a very common myth, spread by their supporters. There was no independent entity under the name Palestine. The area, since it was taken over by the Romans back in 63 BC, was always part of some huge regional empire, with a short 200 years of Crusader self-rule 1099-1291. Other than that, and since 1440s, it was part of the Ottoman empire, then the British took over the region and named it Palestine, but still, it wasn't an independent state. Palestinians themselves didn't see themselves as separate or unique people, and were part of the Muslim Arab landscape of the Levant until Arab nationalism came along in the 20th century.

Also, Jews have always lived in the region, even as a minority, for atleast 3000 years.

However, it is not true that no one is willing to compromise - Israel recognizes Palestinian self-determination aspirations. All we ask is that it will not aspire to replace Israel, only to live side by side with it. Unfortunately, currently that's not the Palestinian consensus and I do believe we will be facing a third intifada

[SHaYap]

Actually, you did say:

So you can understand why I thought you were Jewish (something I didn't assume after your first post).

apologies ... my emphasis was perhaps - ' I am among many Jews who finds Bibi ' or perhaps I should have put it as - ' I am with, among the many Jews who finds Bibi ... '

Also, self-hating as a mean to get approval from the non-Jewish majority is something of a sickness among our people, unfortunately.

I am a reform secular Jew, indeed I'm not religious in any way (I eat pork, drive on Saturday, used to had sex with non-Jews before I got married etc.) other than the belief in God. I'm also a third degree freemason (Master Mason). So now you have yourself Judeo-Masonic conspiracy to throw into the flame .

And you can also blame me with war crimes, as I am an IAF captain in reserve.

*sigh*

This is a whole new debate in itself ~ but briefly I'm sure you do know that the definitions 'Judaic' legacy I'm referring to does not or maybe better put, do not accept your definition of 'secular Jew' here ... and its no surprise to me ... I did gather as much from your posts.

Query - What is the term for someone who wields Official or Political power thus then states that whatever he deems 'Yes' no one is allowed by law that was put in place by himself that grants him the full executive powers to deny anyone the right to say 'No' with the full extent of his law to deal with dissent as traitorous to the nation ?

~ If the little shoe fits ... I say ~

A Master Mason no less ... that is a surprise ... I won't ask about Lodges and Chapters as I know that is not appropriate and also not relevant to the topic, I will take your word as a gentleman on that.

I will only associate you with possible war crimes as an individual if you will share the military operations you were involved in ... but as it is ... there is little avenue for distinctions here as the possibility to preclude your innocence is unavailable to us ... sorry ... but that's just the ways it is ... I'm sure you understand.

I'm also a hard-core liberal, even libertarian, and am for almost to no government intervention what so ever. And I never voted for Bibi - in all the election campaigns I participated since I was 18 I voted further right than Bibi's party. Being that both of my parents experienced communism, I grew up with some wonderful stories about this ideology, so I'm a dedicated anti-Communist. So your likely socialist heart might hate me even more.

On the other side, my direct boss at work is a Muslim Palestinian, my best friend is gay and about to marry his partner (and asked me to be his best man), and I used to smoke pot on more than one occasion.

And other than my masonic membership, I'm not that unusual of an Israeli.

So now that we covered exactly who I am and what I am (not that it's any of your business), I will tell you that your posts here are borderline antisemitic (oh no, I used THAT card), when you compare Jews to Nazis (how and what exactly did we learn from the Gestapo?), when your overall language suggests you are filled with hatred when it comes to Jews and Israel. So you can just keep on ranting etc..

Zionist policies and Jews should and must be separated ... otherwise this is just a merry go round in futility ~ me ... anti semitic because I disagree with and will in no way exonerate nor accept the current Zionist atrocious policies ... and to brand and label me a Socialist on top of that ... me ... yeah ... bring out the stakes and pitchforks and toss me in some concentration camp ... has a familiar tune to it don't you think ?

But anyhow ... thanks for your intro ... though I must say I am not surprised by much that you revealed, yeah except for the Masonic thing ... good luck to ye ... but I;m sure you will understand if I won't mention 'more power'

~

[Yamato]

Great, a self-loathing Jew (if you really are Jewish) .

The moment someone who disagrees with you reveals themselves as Jewish, you retort that world Jewry is single-minded about politics. I've got news for you bro: It's not.

Can Jews not disagree with each other about Israel? Yes they can, and do.

[Yamato]

This is why they grew from 600-700 thousand back in 1948, to 5 million today. Now what would happen to a democratic Israel if 5 million Palestinians will suddenly be allowed in? Mind you, Israel's population is 8 million today.

It was not their land. This is a very common myth, spread by their supporters. There was no independent entity under the name Palestine. The area, since it was taken over by the Romans back in 63 BC, was always part of some huge regional empire, with a short 200 years of Crusader self-rule 1099-1291. Other than that, and since 1440s, it was part of the Ottoman empire, then the British took over the region and named it Palestine, but still, it wasn't an independent state. Palestinians themselves didn't see themselves as separate or unique people, and were part of the Muslim Arab landscape of the Levant until Arab nationalism came along in the 20th century.

Also, Jews have always lived in the region, even as a minority, for atleast 3000 years.

However, it is not true that no one is willing to compromise - Israel recognizes Palestinian self-determination aspirations. All we ask is that it will not aspire to replace Israel, only to live side by side with it. Unfortunately, currently that's not the Palestinian consensus and I do believe we will be facing a third intifada

I don't think focusing on ancient history is a good basis to determine what to do about today's problems. For someone to have a legitimate claim of statehood they don't need an historical example of the same namesake State.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

The problem is there is absolutely no discussion what so ever in Palestinian society about the "refugees" returning only to the West Bank or Gaza (the future suggested territory of a Palestinian state). No. They are indoctrinated to aspire to return to Haifa, Jaffa and other Israeli cities. Heck, there are even refugee camps under Palestinian self-rule that they refuse to dismantle and resettle in normal cities for this reason. Also, there is the problem that the vast majority of these refugees are not really refugees - they are descedants of refugees, deprived of citizenship in every country but Israel (and some in Jordan).

This is why they grew from 600-700 thousand back in 1948, to 5 million today. Now what would happen to a democratic Israel if 5 million Palestinians will suddenly be allowed in? Mind you, Israel's population is 8 million today.

It was not their land. This is a very common myth, spread by their supporters. There was no independent entity under the name Palestine. The area, since it was taken over by the Romans back in 63 BC, was always part of some huge regional empire, with a short 200 years of Crusader self-rule 1099-1291. Other than that, and since 1440s, it was part of the Ottoman empire, then the British took over the region and named it Palestine, but still, it wasn't an independent state. Palestinians themselves didn't see themselves as separate or unique people, and were part of the Muslim Arab landscape of the Levant until Arab nationalism came along in the 20th century.

Also, Jews have always lived in the region, even as a minority, for atleast 3000 years.

However, it is not true that no one is willing to compromise - Israel recognizes Palestinian self-determination aspirations. All we ask is that it will not aspire to replace Israel, only to live side by side with it. Unfortunately, currently that's not the Palestinian consensus and I do believe we will be facing a third intifada

About 'land ownership', if i can say like that... Truth is that people who were living there when british left were attacked, their possesions stolen and many of them murdered or sent to refugee camps. Thats written history and cant be changed.

I have said earlier - only possible solution would be to start negotiate for peace around 1967 borders. As u say, there are 8mil people in Israel and its a large number of people who deserve good and safe life. But i whish same for 5 mil palestinians.

My friend, politics are bad and polititians are usually **** people, pardon my lang. I am sure if people would sit and negotiate there would be peace soon but situation is alot more complicated because politics.

If i may ask u, would u send planes to bombard Gaza as a retaliation for 22 year old technitian that was killed? Or would u try to find better way?

[+and-then]

About 'land ownership', if i can say like that... Truth is that people who were living there when british left were attacked, their possesions stolen and many of them murdered or sent to refugee camps. Thats written history and cant be changed.

I have said earlier - only possible solution would be to start negotiate for peace around 1967 borders. As u say, there are 8mil people in Israel and its a large number of people who deserve good and safe life. But i whish same for 5 mil palestinians.

My friend, politics are bad and polititians are usually **** people, pardon my lang. I am sure if people would sit and negotiate there would be peace soon but situation is alot more complicated because politics.

If i may ask u, would u send planes to bombard Gaza as a retaliation for 22 year old technitian that was killed? Or would u try to find better way?

Pardon my interruption and I do not speak for Erikl, but the reason that 22 year old technician was shot was BECAUSE they tried a better way after a 30 year old sergeant was shot a few days earlier by a Lebanese army sniper in the north. This is what happens when they fail to respond forcefully Sir. They accepted the excuse (possibly true) from Lebanon that it was a rogue soldier and he'd be punished. But news travels there just as here and some Palestinian decided if they could do it then maybe HE could get away with it as well. Giving up Gaza was Israel attempting to find a "better way" and within a few weeks they were running to shelter from the rockets and missiles. With all due respect I think it is time that HAMAS shows it's willingness to try a better way.

[SHaYap]

Pardon my interruption and I do not speak for Erikl, but the reason that 22 year old technician was shot was BECAUSE they tried a better way after a 30 year old sergeant was shot a few days earlier by a Lebanese army sniper in the north. This is what happens when they fail to respond forcefully Sir. They accepted the excuse (possibly true) from Lebanon that it was a rogue soldier and he'd be punished. But news travels there just as here and some Palestinian decided if they could do it then maybe HE could get away with it as well. Giving up Gaza was Israel attempting to find a "better way" and within a few weeks they were running to shelter from the rockets and missiles. With all due respect I think it is time that HAMAS shows it's willingness to try a better way.

With all due respect ... killing children and unarmed citizens in their homes with war machines is not anywhere near better in any way either ...