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Where is the center of the universe?


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#16    ChrLzs

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:08 PM

But wait, we are in the absolute exact centre of the observable universe.

(See what I did there? :P)

BTW, it's interesting to note.. in theory, as we become able to look further and further outwards, *if* we were to notice that in one direction, nothing further is found... that would raise some fascinating questions..

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#17    ealdwita

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:12 PM

Tony Blair thinks he is"!

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#18    Koreyomg

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:34 PM

Everywhere is the center as infinity expands in all directions from the perspective of everything.


#19    TheLastLazyGun

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:59 PM

The centre of the universe is everywhere.  Its centre is in your bathroom; it's in your garage; it's under your blanket with you in bed.  That's because the Big Bang was not an ordinary explosion which caused matter to blow outwards from a centre into space.  Instead the Big Bang was an inflation of matter from an infinitesimal point and this inflation is happening equally at all places, as far as we can tell.

The best way to visualise the expanding universe is to imagining a balloon with dots on it.  Imagine the ballon started life as an infinitesimal point which then suddenly expands.  If you imagine the dots on it to be galaxies, you can visualise the Universe’s expansion by observing how the dots are brought away from one another as air is slowly blown into the balloon.  If you just focus on the surface, you'll notice that each and every dot will drift further away from adjacent ones and that no single dot will appear as the centre. Also, if you picture yourself as an ant at the centre of a single dot, all the other dots will move away from you as if you were the centre, just like in our universe.

This also means that the Big Bang also occurred everywhere in the Universe.

In other words, you cannot have a certain point where the Universe started and where the Big Bang occurred - the centre of the universe - and everywhere else.  The universe started life everywhere and that everywhere is expanding.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun, 06 January 2013 - 08:07 PM.


#20    pallidin

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:59 PM

OK, well, but if the "big Bang" can be validated it must have a spacial origin.


#21    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:40 PM

View Postpallidin, on 06 January 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

OK, well, but if the "big Bang" can be validated it must have a spacial origin.

No, because space itself was created by the big bang.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#22    aidaubmeg459

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:49 PM

the b.b.t. was a rapid expansion of space and time... we could have existed inside the singularity just at much denser atoms... there was no space or time to measure from before the big bang so the center of the universe is logically still where it was before. i laugh at this dark energy theory i hear about... imagine the singularity never stopped.. imagine that time is simply the distance you have moved from the opening of the singularity and the "dark energy" and expansion is simply the new time and space spewing out of the singularity and pushing the "older" time and space outward in all directions.....this would truly support the infinite universe theory and the cold ending theory ... after you have been out of the singularity long enough all the heat and energy has dissipated and spread itself evenly throughout the space and that's it... i also fancy the idea of time travel with this thought... you could travel inward towards the singularity back in time to the time of your birth.... and find there is no planet earth there at all... thus separating time and events.... or you could see it as time is directly tied to events and the universe happens constantly over and over spewing out of the singularity....... i guess I'm saying i logically find it quite easy to explain this mysterious expansion and find it odd that in a highly repetitive universe that something so extraordinary and magnificent as the big bang would happen only once. logic dictates otherwise. the universe is constantly resupplying all of its aspects atoms blow apart and new ones coal-est stars burn out explode and reform planets even life constantly renews so why not time and space?

Ok I understand you spent 50 bucks to get high to post that.... that does not make you sound more intelligent. I would suggest a refund... being arguable is not the same as being intelligent....

#23    Pyridium

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:02 PM

I guess the title of this thread just invited a slew of "old and tired" theories rehashed with a few fantasy twists.  The big bang happened everywhere at the same time...what hog wash.  We are living in a singularity...what hog wash.

They say our Milky Way galaxy is 100,000 light years in diameter...according to some people, no matter where you look at the milky way, all you see is yourself in the reflection...what hog wash.

When we see a galaxy 12 billion light years away, it is just our imagination, we are just making up that number, since there is no mid point between our 2 galaxies.  No matter where you measure the distance, it all adds up to the same..what hog wash.


#24    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:56 PM

So you claim these theories are "old and tired" and "hog wash". That's cheap talk. Let's see you provide evidence to dismiss the standard theories. Let's see the mathematics that backs you up, because THAT is the basis of a scientific theory, not just simply making stuff up out of thin air.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#25    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:18 PM

I've just re-read my above post and realised that it comes across as far more aggressive than I intended, sorry about that.

However my point still remains, what evidence can you provide to show that the standard explanations are, in fact, incorrect?

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#26    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:44 PM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 06 January 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

No, because space itself was created by the big bang.

Maybe it would be destroyed...maybe destroyed and created again.

Edited by the L, 07 January 2013 - 09:45 PM.

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#27    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:50 PM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 04 January 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

The balloon analogy is in two dimensions, there is no center of the surface of the balloon. Trying to visualize this analogy in three dimensions of space is said to be impossible, or at least very difficult for the human mind to imagine.

The big bang is not like an explosion that occurred at some point in space.  As we are inside the BB singularity as it is expanding, the center of origin is all space. The BB happened everywhere. There is no preferred direction in the universe, everywhere we look it looks the same, everything moving away from everything else. As this is so, we cannot define a center. Every point in space can be considered the center from its own perspective, but this is the local perspective from every point in space.

I dont get it. If we are in 3D dimension, which we are, then THERE must be a starting point.
What you saying is in sense that we dont know shape of the universe but there is a chance that might be other dimension which we are not aware of.

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#28    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:00 PM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 05 January 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:


In reality galaxies have independent motion. The way I suggest that you can think of this is this; instead of representing the galaxies by drawing dots on the surface off the balloon, replace them with live ants. The ants are free to walk about on the surface of the balloon. As the balloon expands the ants will still on average be getting further away from each other. However, because they are free to walk about, sometimes a couple of ants will move towards each other, maybe even collide once in a while. As the balloon continues to expand, and the average space between the ants get larger, these collisions will become less frequent.

Who cares about ants. Simply-Where is center of Balloon? If I blow ballon at home and point balloon to the light I could tell circa where is center.
Also who or what blow that balloon?

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#29    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:06 PM

Univerese is 99,9999999....% mystery to us. We only speculate. We dont have any evidence that black hole is what we think it is.
We dont know what Quasars are. We dont know is there cosmos in electron and are we cosmos in some electron.
We dont know is there end of the universe? Maybe giant neutrino is out there.

Universe dont expand. It accelarating expansion. How come?

We have evidencies about expanding universe same as evidencies for "breathing" universe.

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#30    Pyridium

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:42 AM

Thanks, Waspie.  I also got into a little rant there, got ticked off when someone starts talking about a balloon as being 2 Dimensional.  If we could actually envision something in 3D it would take a miracle...really?

As I said above, the title drew in the wrong crowd.  I meant this as a simple math exercise.

Back to the OP...the Milky Way galaxy is traveling at a rate of 370 miles per second in a straight line.  The question should have been, what gave our galaxy and all other galaxies the "boost" of speed initially?  WMAP shows a nice round radiation background.  Why does WMAP look like a balloon?

I thiink one of the most important discoveries came just a few months ago when after mapping many points of light over many years, we now know that the universe if flat.  This puts to rest the idea that space and our universe is curved.  That is just one old tired theory that went out the window with just a few years measuring the angles of triangles of stars as observation points.  If the universe was curved, the angles would have added up to more than 180 degrees.  After years of looking, the angles remain a constant 180 degrees, therefore the universe is flat, not curved.





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