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Drones and ExtraJudicial Killings

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#16    OverSword

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:27 PM

View PostBrianPotter, on 04 June 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

Drones are just the next stage of progression in technical warfare.I see nothing wrong in using them if its warranted.
Warranted huh?  OK.  I guess that depends on what you call warranted.

I'll tell you what.  If there was a foriegn army enforcing thier brand of martial law in the USA, IUD's would be the least that they would have to worry about from many Americans.  Would those Americans be in the wrong, or the right?  Would they be freedom fighters of terrorists?  Would the invading army be justified in remotley attacking homes in which suspected insurgents lived with thier familys and destroying not only those homes but likely the homes around them as well?


#17    and then

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:36 AM

I think we are at the precipice of a potentially REALLY bad situation with drones.  I agree that their use in combat situations is inescapable at this time.  They work and they save lives of coalition forces as well as enabling very fast targeting of high value targets that otherwise would be untouchable.  But such power can and probably will quickly be turned against civilian populations in many countries.  Even just surveillance would be an awful misuse of the technology.  But I believe they are here to stay.  Vigorous attempts should be started in congress to limit the use of them domestically.  And prior to the screams of "HYPOCRITE" that I'm certain to hear - the current use of these weapons is in warfighting.  People die when they initiate wars. Tough old world.....

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#18    and then

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:47 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 04 June 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

If one assumes that the US Constitution is the supreme law of the land, then we are not in a state of war.  We are in a 11 year old UNDECLARED war, the hallmark of which is military aggression in contravention of international law.

What we have here is The Unitary Executive acting in a manner similar to King George back in 1776.  What's sad about it is that so many ordinary citizens, utterly ignorant of the Constitution and certain legal principles, support the illegal actions by our Assassin-In-Chief.

The Global War On Terror is a fraud of epic proportions, based upon fraud and deception.  Yep, we have the government we deserve.

So if we strike the colors and just come home, reduce forces and weapons building projects we should be better off?  By your logic we will be safe at home as soon as we leave these illegal conflicts that WE initiated .  Sound about correct?  Maybe we should admit the wrongs and pay reparations?  Yeah...I'm sure that would make them all love us...

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#19    ranrod

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:12 AM

Just pointing out for those who do not know.  Drones are controlled by  people when attacking.  They don't decide themselves.  A human being still "pulls the trigger".  That human being gets clearance to take action from his chain of command.  Not much different than if that human was flying the plane himself, without endangering his/her life.


#20    ThePhantomFlanFlinger

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 05:39 AM

View PostOverSword, on 04 June 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Warranted huh?  OK.  I guess that depends on what you call warranted.

I'll tell you what.  If there was a foriegn army enforcing thier brand of martial law in the USA, IUD's would be the least that they would have to worry about from many Americans.  Would those Americans be in the wrong, or the right?  Would they be freedom fighters of terrorists?  Would the invading army be justified in remotley attacking homes in which suspected insurgents lived with thier familys and destroying not only those homes but likely the homes around them as well?


Sorry...i see no wrong in using them if warranted,no matter what you say...i just dont see a problem.



edit to add...im not looking to get into an argument with you oversword...i have my view and you have yours..

Edited by BrianPotter, 05 June 2012 - 05:45 AM.


#21    Babe Ruth

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 01:21 PM

AND THEN

Maybe a Biblical reference will help.  Remember "one cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear"?

That is what you and the government are trying to do.  Pure rationalization in an effort to excuse criminal actions.

Firstly, this all came from one staged event, one False Flag Operation--the events of 11 September.

Secondly, while we have no constitutionally required Declaration Of War more than 10 years later, you guys are on very thin ice, regarding legal activities.  In fact, the drone attacks are military aggression, and for those who care (few, I know) that makes them illegal too.

I could go on, but it still blows my mind to see all these "kind and loving Christians, following the teachings of Jesus", thoroughly and happily supporting assassination and torture.


#22    Bama13

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 01:52 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 05 June 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

AND THEN

Maybe a Biblical reference will help.  Remember "one cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear"?

That is what you and the government are trying to do.  Pure rationalization in an effort to excuse criminal actions.

Firstly, this all came from one staged event, one False Flag Operation--the events of 11 September.

Secondly, while we have no constitutionally required Declaration Of War more than 10 years later, you guys are on very thin ice, regarding legal activities.  In fact, the drone attacks are military aggression, and for those who care (few, I know) that makes them illegal too.

I could go on, but it still blows my mind to see all these "kind and loving Christians, following the teachings of Jesus", thoroughly and happily supporting assassination and torture.

I am sorry but most people do not believe that 9/11 was a "false flag" event. Always remember: Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but no one is entitled to their own reality.

" Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything —you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him" - Robert Heinlein

#23    OverSword

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:33 PM

View PostBrianPotter, on 05 June 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:

Sorry...i see no wrong in using them if warranted,no matter what you say...i just dont see a problem.



edit to add...im not looking to get into an argument with you oversword...i have my view and you have yours..

Define "warranted"

edited to add, I know, you can't.

Think about that.

Edited by OverSword, 05 June 2012 - 02:37 PM.


#24    OverSword

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:36 PM

View PostBama13, on 05 June 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

I am sorry but most people do not believe that 9/11 was a "false flag" event. Always remember: Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but no one is entitled to their own reality.

False flag or not, and I really don't have a definite opinion on that one, as it was mind bogglingly complicated to be a false flag, and yet tower 7 is pretty blatantly fishier that a school of tuna, don't you think mission pretty much accomplished like 7 years ago?  At this point we've done more to fatten the ranks of various terrorist organizations than every radical mullah combined.

Edited by OverSword, 05 June 2012 - 02:37 PM.


#25    ThePhantomFlanFlinger

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:57 PM

View PostOverSword, on 05 June 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Define "warranted"

edited to add, I know, you can't.

Think about that.

If the only way to flush out a well dug in,known enemy then that is what i would call warranted.If our forces would lose lots of operatives in flushing out the enemy then again i would say it would be warranted.I'm not here to say that we should use drones to drop bombs on just anyone,just where our losses would not be worth the effort.One interesting thing is that reports are coming out that the drone attack has possibly killed a high ranking Al Qaeda operative....go figure.

Again i have my view and you have yours..

Edited by BrianPotter, 05 June 2012 - 02:57 PM.


#26    Babe Ruth

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:05 PM

Yes Bama, I know that most folks think like you.  It's no wonder really, considering the 24/7 onslaught of telling the Official Tale.

But depending on how the question is asked, about 85% of those polled think that the findings of the 911 Commission are inaccurate and probably a coverup, meant to protect and guilty and distract the public.

But on topic, IF it was a False Flag, IF the events of the day were staged, THEN everything that comes from it, in this case the interminable War On Terror and relentless drone attacks, is based upon fraud.  THAT is the point.

As Aristotle pointed out, it is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.  Are you able to entertain the thought?


#27    Bama13

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:38 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 05 June 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

Yes Bama, I know that most folks think like you.  It's no wonder really, considering the 24/7 onslaught of telling the Official Tale.

But depending on how the question is asked, about 85% of those polled think that the findings of the 911 Commission are inaccurate and probably a coverup, meant to protect and guilty and distract the public.

But on topic, IF it was a False Flag, IF the events of the day were staged, THEN everything that comes from it, in this case the interminable War On Terror and relentless drone attacks, is based upon fraud.  THAT is the point.

As Aristotle pointed out, it is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.  Are you able to entertain the thought?

I have entertained the thought. I have not accepted it as a proven fact. You apparently have. Now if you can prove it, then by all means please do. If you can not prove it then it is not a fact but rather your opinion.

PS  I am confused as to how most people think like me but 85% think differently.

" Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything —you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him" - Robert Heinlein

#28    and then

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 04:07 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 05 June 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

AND THEN

Maybe a Biblical reference will help.  Remember "one cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear"?

That is what you and the government are trying to do.  Pure rationalization in an effort to excuse criminal actions.

Firstly, this all came from one staged event, one False Flag Operation--the events of 11 September.

Secondly, while we have no constitutionally required Declaration Of War more than 10 years later, you guys are on very thin ice, regarding legal activities.  In fact, the drone attacks are military aggression, and for those who care (few, I know) that makes them illegal too.

I could go on, but it still blows my mind to see all these "kind and loving Christians, following the teachings of Jesus", thoroughly and happily supporting assassination and torture.
BR the fact that you seriously think that something like 9-11 could have been a false flag or any other flavor of government conspiracy tends to reduce your credibility, I think.  I won't argue that silliness here though.  You're free to believe anything you like - doesn't harm me.  My life as a Christian I am responsible for.  You will never be asked to answer for a single action I take.  The fact you keep bringing it up just tells me you think I'm a hypocrite and that's okay too.  Because I'll never have to answer for anything you may have done wrong, either.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#29    OverSword

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 04:13 PM

View PostBrianPotter, on 05 June 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

If the only way to flush out a well dug in,known enemy then that is what i would call warranted.If our forces would lose lots of operatives in flushing out the enemy then again i would say it would be warranted.I'm not here to say that we should use drones to drop bombs on just anyone,just where our losses would not be worth the effort.One interesting thing is that reports are coming out that the drone attack has possibly killed a high ranking Al Qaeda operative....go figure.

Again i have my view and you have yours..

If that is the case then I guess you must also believe that these people pose an imminent threat to our personal safety.  I'm not sure of that (to put it mildly) but it is easily demonstrated that our drones are an imminent threat to thiers.

As far as the "high ranking" terrorist figure.  That is most certainly an easy claim to make, since obviously we in the general public have no idea who these people are.  By all reports we have killed so many high ranking al qaeda figures that they must be running low at this point.

Edited by OverSword, 05 June 2012 - 04:18 PM.


#30    ThePhantomFlanFlinger

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 04:25 PM

View PostOverSword, on 05 June 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

If that is the case then I guess you must also believe that these people pose an imminent threat to our personal safety.  I'm not sure of that (to put it mildly) but it is easily demonstrated that our drones are an imminent threat to thiers.

As far as the "high ranking" terrorist figure.  That is most certainly an easy claim to make, since obviously we in the general public have no idea who these people are.  By all reports we have killed so many high ranking al qaeda figures that they must be running low at this point.

Im not here to argue Oversword....i have my reasons for thinking we should use them when situations dictate..you have different views...if we all thought the same then the world would be a boring place..






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