Belief in J.C. is a given

[4dplane]

I asked what I thought was a simple question but I now realize it may not be so simple.

Question:

“Where in the bible does it read you must believe in Jesus Christ or you will defiantly burn in hell?”

Is there another way into heaven?

Can one just be a good person and make the cut.

Here is some stuff I found on the web...

Salvation is NOT found in a religion or good works, but in a person...the LORD JESUS CHRIST!

John 11:25, "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

John 14:6, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

John 6:40, "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Romans 10:13, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Source

[P4P3R T1G3R2]

Amen

Edited March 1, 2005 by P4P3R T1G3R2

[mako]

Is there another way into heaven?

Can one just be a good person and make the cut.

That only makes the cut if the Christian God is real and more than 2/3rds of the world do not believe that he is! If there is a heaven, the belief in a poor Jewish Rabbi who was in the wrong place at the wrong time will not make much of a difference if you are just plain bad to the bone!

[AzTide]

If a man or woman is of sound moral character but does not pratice any religion should they be allowed into any religions heaven?

[tupac amaru]

If they were non-religious and did not have a belief in an afterlife, why would they even want to go to some religion's heaven and meet all the criteria for being there. After all, the Christian heaven seems to be a very boring place according to the Bible (the Christians make up alot of things to make it seem great) all you would do is sit around and sing praises to a meglomanical Deity!

Edited March 1, 2005 by tupac amaru

[jack0fhearts]

Just as long as a person feels they should enter heaven. Not even God could sentence an honestly good opinion to hell.

[AzTide]

Maybe a peacful, boring place is where a person with good moral character would like to go to meet others like themselves.

[mako]

Maybe a peacful, boring place is where a person with good moral character would like to go to meet others like themselves

Just a personal opinion, but that would not be an "AfterLife", it would only be an "Afterexistence"!

[AzTide]

Afterlife means when life is no longer. Dead is pretty close to that.

[Faeden]

I dont believe you are either allowed into heaven or your not, heaven and hell are within all of us, our actions in life and towards others decide whether we go to a place of light or a place of darkness, where ever we go its down to us as the individual, not god, god just is, and always was, and always will be, he/she doesn’t make rules or laws, nor does he/she punish, human beings do that well enough there selves. The laws are within nature, as a natural order. If there is a way of mocking god, its to abuse the home he/she gave us, and to harm others with ignorance, and suppression, and to play god by judging others. Jesus would have wanted people to love him, not fear him like so many do.

From the

Gospel of Peace:

In everything that is life is the law written. You find it in the grass, in the tree, in the river, in the mountain, in the birds of heaven, in the fishes of the sea;

But seek it chiefly in yourselves. For I tell you truly, all living things are nearer to God than the scriptures without life. God so made life and all living things that they might by the ever living word, teach the laws of the true God to man.

God wrote not the laws in the pages of books, but in your heart and in your spirit.

The words of

Jesus Christ

as recorded by the

Disciple John

in the Gospel of Peace

I believe the above to be the real words of Jesus Christ that have been uncorrupted by man.

Many people believe that Jesus is evil and cruel. I personally believe he is a highly enlightened good spiritual entity, rather than some nasty egotistical man that so many people believe that his is.

All the best

Faeden

Edited March 1, 2005 by Faeden

[ajagsfairy]

Beautiful pictures Faeden . Also i agree with you totally on the post. The church makes Jesus out to be something that even he obviously was against. I bet many people are in for quite a surprise in the next life. Love and blessings, Jo

[4dplane]

Thanks everyone for your posts – I am asking this question because I have a loved one who is a Christian and she is having a hard time with the idea that god puts people in hell just because they do not believe in Jesus Christ as their personal savior. Her problem started when a friend of ours, sister died of cancer at 24 and she was Jewish. My loved one then asked the question to herself when she was at the young woman’s funeral “is this woman in hell because she did not believe in Jesus Christ as her savior?”

John 14:6, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

That line in the bible is hard to deny what it probably means – Jesus is the only way into heaven, with out him you will not go to heaven.

It comes down to the verb “cometh”, I wonder how that word was translated from the original text. Being that it is in the New Testament it is probably a solid translation.

So is this it – all people who do not except Jesus Christ as their personal savior will burn in hell?

I personally am not worried for I do not believe in any religion made by the hands of man – maybe a woman, but not a man; but for my loved one – she will continue to suffer in her realization that most people will be burning in hell – even a young Jewish women who did no wrong to anyone.

[eckogangsta]

Someone who is a good person but does not make Jesus their savior would probably go to Purgatory right?

On a website a while ago I remember it talking about how Hell has levels, the 9th level being the worst, and the 1st level being Limbo where there is no pain and suffering but you are not happy because you did not make Jesus your Savior... and vice versa there are levels of heaven with the 9th being the best...

I dont know if this is true or not.

[Irish]

Someone who is a good person but does not make Jesus their savior would probably go to Purgatory right?

On a website a while ago I remember it talking about how Hell has levels, the 9th level being the worst, and the 1st level being Limbo where there is no pain and suffering but you are not happy because you did not make Jesus your Savior... and vice versa there are levels of heaven with the 9th being the best...

I dont know if this is true or not.

507154[/snapback]

Being raised Catholic ( rejecting catholicism later in life ) I understood that purgatory/limbo was a place reserved for children that die before the age of reasoning and good people that had not heard of Christ.

I believe now that this was a misconception and purgatory was a place that existed before Christ's death on the cross.

It no longer exists since the accomplishment of Christ's death on the cross.

to quote LBD " thats just my humble opinion.

Irish

[Faeden]

Hi 4dplane

– I am asking this question because I have a loved one who is a Christian and she is having a hard time with the idea that god puts people in hell just because they do not believe in Jesus Christ as their personal savior.

Sounds like your loved ones common sense is fighting through. To me personally, to think that god would act like that is a bizarre idea, seems like your loved one knows this, and good on her. To think that God would send someone into a lake of fire to burn in agony for all eternity just for getting "his" name wrong is a horrific image of the creator, anyone with common sense and a good heart knows this is just something that god fearing men have come up with, No offence to people that believe in the bible, but just because something is in the bible, doesn’t make it so, the bible was written in my opinion as a way that religious leaders at the time could control there public with fear and to get them to join there club or we will bully you. In the days the bible was written the church was power hungry, and wanted control over the masses, preaching that god is vengeful and hateful, and that The Devil was waiting to devour people that was against there laws, was a good way to make the public act how the men at the time wanted them to act. Think about all the children all over the world that have never even heard of Jesus Christ so cant believe that Jesus was there lord and savour, will this wrathful cold hearted god send them to burn in hell ? Anyone with common sense will know the answer to this question. I am aware that many people believe that the bible is the true word of god, but they ignore that history tells it another way.

I remember a few years ago, some extremist Christians where preaching on a grass verge while I was waiting for a bus, I had a ankh on, and one of them after they had performed there show, saw my ankh and said to me something along the lines of "what are you going to say to Jesus Christ on your day of judgement" I told him that I will say 'Jesus I am so very sorry for the horrific image some humans have portrayed you as, please except my apology on behalf of them, and that they teach people that you are mean and cruel, they have been blinded with fear.' He became so angry I though he was going to beat the crap out of me, but he just said ill pray for you, and walked off, he did not know what to say to me.

You dont need to read a book to know what’s right and what is wrong, you just need to look within your heart which seems to be what your loved one is doing. People fear the unknown, so they demonize it.

We are supposed to love god, how are we to do that if we fear god?

These are just my personal opinions so sorry if they offend.

All the best

Faeden

Edited March 1, 2005 by Faeden

[Jesus_Freak]

even if you're a "good" person, if you knowingly reject the teachings of Jesus Christ, i believe you will not enter the Kingdom of God. Now if you have never heard the teachings of Jesus Christ, and unknowingly reject His teachings (since you haven't heard them) then i believe you go to Heaven....Doing good deeds on earth just builds up your treasure in Heaven.

but that's just my opinion...

Edited March 1, 2005 by Jesus_Freak

[Irish]

Is it so mean and cruel that He left His throne and took upon Himself the flesh of man, to be humiliated, and hung on a cross to die, to literally go to hell on our behalf to provide a way that no one should end up there?

[Faeden]

Hi Jesus_freak

I do good things and help others, not to give me better treasures in heaven, I do it because I like helping others, and that I believe that people should give to others that are not as fortunate as them selves. I dont help others to get me a better seat in heaven.

All the best

Faeden

[Faeden]

Hi Irish

Is it so mean and cruel that He left His throne and took upon Himself the flesh of man, to be humiliated, and hung on a cross to die, to literally go to hell on our behalf to provide a way that no one should end up there?

I dont believe that Jesus is mean and cruel. What you said is true, if you believe that idea, I dont believe in that idea of Christ, I believe Jesus was killed by a bunch of evil b*******, plain and simple, because Jesus got in the way of there position of power, so they eliminated the competition. And even if Jesus did die on the cross for our sins, it doesn’t mean you have to fear him, and look at him as judgmental and wrathful.

all the best

Faeden

Edited March 1, 2005 by Faeden

[Irish]

Hi Irish

Is it so mean and cruel that He left His throne and took upon Himself the flesh of man, to be humiliated, and hung on a cross to die, to literally go to hell on our behalf to provide a way that no one should end up there?

I dont believe that Jesus is mean and cruel. What you said is true, if you believe that idea, I dont believe in that idea of Christ, I believe Jesus was killed by a bunch of evil b*******, plain and simple, because Jesus got in the way of there position of power, so they eliminated the competition. And even is Jesus did die on the cross for our sins, it doesn’t mean you have to fear him, and look at him as judgmental and wrathful.

all the best

Faeden

507214[/snapback]

I will give you an analogy. To clarify my belief.

If you had a goldfish that you cherished and provided all that was nessesary for a happy goldfish life. And that goldfish decided one day that it no longer liked the food it was provided and so starved itself to death. Would you be responsible for its death?

Irish

[Faeden]

Hi Irish

Goldfishes dont do that, they are greedy little buggers they will eat anything. I dont think a single goldfish has ever taken its own life.

If god does think in that manner towards people that dont believe in him as he would like, and that they are "not his problem" then that is still kind of cold.

Lets say I did have a goldfish that committed suicide, because it did not like the fish food I provided, when it died I would not be like blah!!! it was its own fault, I would show it compassion, and bury it in a nice spot in the garden and wish it well in the after life, not think "well it was the fishes own fault, sod it". that is mean.

The fish never knew any better, it was just a fish. Compared to me it doesn’t have my level of understanding, and nor would I expect it to, its just a fish.

I dont believe god expects us to know what is on his/her mind either, so to think that we do is just naive in my opinion. To know who or what god is, is to know all the secrets of the universe, no one knows that but god. I think to just be true to your self, and to others around you is good enough for god.

I see where your coming from though.

all the best

Faeden

Edited March 1, 2005 by Faeden

[Irish]

Gods word is the food for our soul, if we refuse to eat and starve our soul to death who is to blame?

[Faeden]

Gods word is the food for our soul, if we refuse to eat and starve our soul to death who is to blame?

507252[/snapback]

Yes!!! but what is gods word? its debatable. So many different people through out the world have opinions as to what is gods word, there are 1000s, so take your pick.

I choose to love god by appreciating the beauty of nature and of his/hers creations, and to treat others how I would want to be treated, that speaks loader to me than any book is able to. You can find the laws of god in the goodness of others in my opinion.

All the best

Faeden

Edited March 1, 2005 by Faeden

[Grandpa Greenman]

Faeden, you are a treasure. When I come back in the next life I want to be your gold fish.

The way I see it if the christians are right then I go to hell. If I and my Pagan brothers and sisters are right then nobody goes to hell. Sometimes I don't see much difference in my life now and living in hell. I am looking forward to my next life. I see the christian heaven as stagnation. I would rather my soul come back to a new life and continue to learn.

As far as the what the bible says about it you believe in JC or you go to hell, but then how accurate is the bible in what JC said? How much of it is what the author said in order to gain control of the population and keep that money coming in the plate? ?????

[P4P3R T1G3R2]

4D,

I don't think a Jewish person who believes in God will go to hell, after all they are his chosen people. Israel and the Jews have always been Gods focus.