114 replies to this topic

[psyche101]

Ryegrog, on 17 October 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

WOW! You spend too much time in the closet with your inflated ego.

How dare I have a conversation with you? LOL, it's not even my information, I just read more than you do, obviously.

Do you normally get upset with everyone that knows something you don't? Just going by your posting, you seem experienced...........

Ryegrog, on 17 October 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

I provided 2 links for proof on what's happening to this planet and you disregard them and call me a hate monger.

I provided links that offer a more complete perspective. I take it you did not like the link about the Garbage Patch?

Well, yes, you sound like an angsty teen who thinks the world owes them a favour. You think all humans do is destroy, that is a bleak and unhealthy outlook, LOL, and you are telling me to get out more often. That is funny!

Why did you not respond the the links and give a sensible argument? Why opt to go on the personal insult path as opposed to revealing evidence?

Because you are a sore loser. I suspect your next move will be to incorporate smilies with your bolding? You could maybe try bolding and red? That will teach me!

Ryegrog, on 17 October 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

With you it's not about right or wrong, it's about winning an argument .

I do not think so, I conceded to Orcseeker and actually apologised for ranting at him because I was a bit wound up from people like you. And that was my mistake. I do not know why it bothers me that some people insist in remaining ignorant, I guess I think you have the right to deliberate ignorance, but as a human, I think you are letting us all down.

Ryegrog, on 17 October 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

It might be all Peaches & Cream in your tiny little world but you need to get out of the house.

I never said that. I said a few spoil it for many, and you seem to think those few are the many. People do a lot of good too.

LOL, I am in my 40's and grew up without the Internet. I know more about the outdoors than you could ever possibly realise! And I grew up in rural Australia!!

Good God Man! Do you think that a bright outlook is from sitting behind a computer? That is so ridiculous it is really funny!!!!  Have a think about that line for a minute.



And I actually really did!

Ryegrog, on 17 October 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

Here's a new avatar befitting for you.

How mature! That certainly convinces me that your argument is valid. Well I'm sold, We are all going to hell in a hand basket, get me a good thick rope so I do not have to live in this deep dark planet of evil humans destroying every inch as soon as they have the chance!!
My my Ryegrog, you did let me down so! I expected a decent debate, or at best conversation. Poor effort mate. You ought to be ashamed. Terrible rebuttal. Is that really the most you are capable of?

Edited by psyche101, 19 October 2012 - 09:08 AM.

[Orcseeker]

psyche101, on 17 October 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

I agree, however weeding these shady types will take time, no two ways about it. There is only so many places to rape, and eventually they have to be weeded out. I think that is just statistics? As more people become aware of how damaging these individual are, I think it will be harder and harder for them.

I think it will require international intervention or pressure for these things to be done. However, do not fret, there are people in those countries who are also recognising this, I have visited an orangutan rehabilitation center and safe haven in Sabah, Malaysia. Things like that are run by the people there who go out of their way to help in big ways.

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I did not know we sold that here. I am the only one in the family that eats Tuna, so we do not have it in the house much and I have not noticed the "hook caught" on the label when I buy myself a can. I will keep an eye out for it, thank you for the heads up.

No problems I believe greenseas only does hook and line. The others get theirs from Thailand (giant net fishing), as you can imagine is a poorly policed and terribly corrupt country at the moment.

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Very aware. I grew up a bit west of the Darling Downs on a broadacre farm, we ran Sheep, Dairy, and crops. Watermelon was a big one (you know where I grew up now   )

I actually have no idea haha. I'm a Victorian. I've only recently appreciated the true beauty of our country's landscape and was not interested in travel or geology of it at all. Especially our flora.

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No, again, this makes perfect sense, we are in a world that is an a never ending learning cycle. I agree with all of this. Who can say no to a quick buck? The repercussions are rarely properly understood at the onset of any enterprise.

The ignorant are slowly being weeded out... Slowly. Still I would hate to see any avoidable loss of species in the meantime. These are fauna and flora that do possess a life and needlessly lose it.

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May I apologise. I was a bit snarky after debating some of the more "difficult" posters (not you Rye, you're OK with me) I was probably a bit crankier than I should have been. And I have been doing some stupid long hours of late. This place helps me wind down. I do believe I agree with pretty much everything you have said including the above. Although there are more than just the Fat Cats I'd like to see disappear at the click of a finger Like bad criminals, religious fundies, and perhaps the deliberately ignorant

It is absolutely no problem. I've seen you on these forums for quite a while and know you mean well. UM is probably of my greatest finds on the Internet. Definitely 100% agree with you on the rest, ah what a world that would be.

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Surely you have noticed a massive increase in Solar in Australia over the last 2 years? It went nuts for a bit there, I took advantage myself and put a decent system on the roof. I think we are all getting there, someone has to dive in first is all I think. I have seen proptotypes of future panels, and the future looks bright.

I think each country should seek their own answers. I think New Zealand could benefit from geo-thermal, Tassie and most of the Southern states should benefit from Ocean driven power plants, of which there are many great designs. I think it is a relatively new technology, newer than the Internet. so it is just a matter of time.

LED lighting is going well too, Thats took some time to get of the ground, but it is quite viable now, and an excellent alternative to incandescent lighting. Fraction of the power. Whole houses are being lit by what one or two light bulbs used to draw.

Oh yes I recognise the big government initiative on solar power. Not sure if you've heard or seen pictures of the Greenough River Solar Farm, but definitely have a look if not, our biggest solar plant in Australia. Though this may seem like quite an effort on our behalf, our reliance on brown coal still has the largest market share by quite a big fraction (90%+) last time I checked.

I would link an image of a graph comparison between Australia and Germany in terms of sustainable power but I can't seem to find it. We flounder on less than 10% whereas Germany's majority of power is from sustainable energy if I remember correctly.

LEDs definitely have my vote, from TVs to torches. So much more efficient AND effective. The government have had some initiatives which I'm sure you're aware of here to give everyone free flouroescent globes. I think it is time they did the LEDs.

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I am pretty sure in many of the farming communities that this is a centuries old practise. 3 years crop rotations was common in the middle ages. We still do it as far as I know. We did where I grew up.

Oh yes I have heard of crop rotations, but the native Americans respected the land completely from animals to the trees. I think you will find many great quotes notable native Americans have made as well as some of their sayings to be very wise.

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I have read cute stories in the paper, but they make it there because they are a rare story. It is not normal for a species to help another species, unless a symbiotic relations ship is in plave, and again, that tends to depend on the environment providing resources.

That is true but we as humans have more resources than we need, so if any animal on this world is to help anything it is us.

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If they followed the same industrial revolution, I'd like to think that they would do the same. But I do not think such is possible until a certain state of intelligence is reached. I think we all have to learn by example, and I like to think intelligence gives us that conscience required to give a damn.

On that note it would be quite interesting to see how other creatures would evolve taking some of the core beginning as us. Perhaps could have developed a new energy source or whatnot.

Hmm conscience in terms of other animals would be a hard thing to identify. I guess some animals seem to portray guilt if they've done something wrong so it could support the evidence of a conscience.

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We are very much in agreement, I have been thinking the same thing. Oil is not sustainable, and many people have been working hard at this for a long time. My big wonder is will new technology integrate into our current way of life, or will we have to adapt to it?

I believe we will always find an alternative, but we do only have so many resources on this planet and for them to reform once again would take millions of years. We do have current alternatives now, such as hybrid cars which we could also get to run on sustainable energy. The problem with that is, right now the production of such cars requires large amounts of petroleum fuel from material extraction to car assembly.

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Thanks for your response, my manners were not around when we first spoke, and I have misjudged you terribly. My apologies. You did not have to be as nice as you were in your reply, I cannot help but respect that.

It is absolutely fine psyche. I greatly appreciate your respect and your apology I'm glad there is no bad blood between us. If I ever came off as rude or such I apologise as well.

[Orcseeker]

psyche101, on 17 October 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

I have been involved in breaking horses. I always thought they were pretty indifferent, but out West we have no Elephants, my experience is limited there, so I will have to take your word on that.

It is because an Elephant can live on it's own that I would classify them as destructive when they kill people and destroy villages.

I watched a short video on a girl who "broke" a horse in 3 days. A horse that was quite crazy and the previous owners thought it was a lost cause. All she has was a rope, I'm not at all familiar as you on this subject but it was really nothing compared to the elephants.

Say for instance a lion moves into our residential area, it will be removed of course at loss of its life or sedated and taken away. If we impose on the area of a wild animal predator alone, we can expect loss of our life. Since the global overpopulation problem has affected all countries all over the world. Residential and infrastructure is expanding.... Into the area of these animals.

So they will respond as such. They are wild animals and defending their territory (not in regards to rogue animals who simply target humans just cause or gained a taste/easier prey for an old/injured predator).

But I will ask you a question, do you think zoos are ok for purely entertainment purposes?

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I would call that two intelligent species and base the commonality on that. I guess it would depend on why we are warring with siad Alien? It might be simply a "police action"

Ah I see your point there. But then again, DeGrasse made an interesting point as how our 1% makes that bigger difference of apes from us. Then asks you to imagine us from a 1% difference on the same properties. So would we even be considered very intelligent or seen as a animal as we consider chimps? So is it that war only exists within ourselves?

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Yes, but no accountability, and Elephant does not feel bad if it kills a human. Although Elephants express grief when a herd member dies, I think that is the most rudimentary of instinct, and is not what I would consider accountability, which is what one requires to look after the planet.

I heard on the news today an elephant bull calf a keeper help raised from a baby crushed her into a wall and she later went into cardiac arrest (thankfully in a stable condition now but suffering serious crushing injuries) in an Australian zoo. I think you might be right on those aspects.

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Agreed, it takes all types, but some people are a little too in touch with the environment............

Hahah yes, I believe one should always keep a balance. But I cannot help but feel some sort of connection (as corny as that sounds) when I am walking amongst trees to the sounds of birds and fresh air.

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You and I being Aussies, this was quite an issue last year. Some still want a big Australia, but I think the majority consensus is moving toward preserving our way of life and trying to limit ourselves to grow no larger. Hard to see happening, but I live in hope of a small Australia.

I am 100% with you on this one. Our governments greed for money from rich internationals might make that a dieing dream... I like it how it is now. Maybe a bit less of a population in the greater suburbs of some of our cities. I know of large Indian and African populations here which move into the greater low income suburbs and overpopulation in such areas isn't doing anyone a favour.

I believe there is also a level of corruption in our immigration. There are some Chinese who moved into a house near mine who barely speak any English at all. This is not an isolate incident either. I have heard you can pay $30,000 per person to skip some of the core immigration requirement (under the counter deal of course). I don't blame people from leaving their countries where there is a poor quality of life but if I were to move to some country I would make an effort to learn the language and their customs as well as culture before I made any move. We are a multicultural country and widespread respect for all cultures is important.

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Indeed but I think the aforementioned Germany is a prime example, It went well, so we jumped on the bandwagon, and I hear the septics are considering a solar scheme similar to the one that got so many panels on houses here. They would be crazy not to. Grids need propping up just like they do here, but if you reduce that load and put a million little power plants out there your in a win win situation. The Government got us to save energy, and fix their problems at out expense, and made a deal whereby many where happy to do so!
A Government would be crazy to miss the opportunity IMHO. All they need to do is the same they did here. Jack up the price of electricity so nobody can afford it, and have to either downsize or get solar. Electricity has gone up something like 73% here in the last 5 years. I think the Government should be in court over that!
But all in all, we are doing something, that is what I was trying to get across to Ryegrog. We do not just destroy and move on. Animals do the environment no more favours than we do. Humans are not as bad as so many make out. I feel you and I are on the same page.

Cheers.

Not to mention the price of water! Or well... Everything government related. Some European governments are quite open minded. We are very unfortunate on that aspect. Recently a bill have been refused to pass which has been pushed by the medical board of Australia to allow the installation of a safe injecting station for heroin users. There is one in Sydney which has had no deaths, controlled doses so less overdoses, more addicts to seek treatment and using clean needles in a safe environment.

I'm not saying drugs are good or anything but this would save lives and educate and help reduce heroin users.

Though interestingly enough, I heard some drug, DMT (we produce it in our brains every night we go to sleep) is also illegal (everyone in this country breaks the law every time they sleep). I read an article containing in the title something like "dangerous new drug" and laughed. Also quite shameful about how many people would simply side with those who say it without doing any research. This drug also has shown to treat heroin users successfully, sometimes in one dose. Very interesting drug to read about.

Went off on a bit of a tangent there but you see what I mean? The stigma attached to it all. Professionals who have thoroughly researched as well as anecdotal evidence it works in our own country as well as overseas (Sweden). Yet those politicians egos and ingrained unfounded opinions hold things like these back. Being head of IT I am sure you have heard of Steven Conroys Internet filter bill? Another spout of idiocy on the highest level. I'd take up being a politician just to try instill some logic in this mess of a government we have.

[Mikami]

This is a possiblility but isn't it a bit vain to think that we're the most intelligent out there right now? I mean we used to think we were the center of the universe until we found out we were actually orbiting the sun in a giant universe full of many other suns and planets and etc.. so anywho I'm leaning more towards the fact that we're being quarantined by all the other more intelligent beings out there. Read the article "Making Ourselves Alone" its very interesting.

[Hawkin]

psyche101, on 19 October 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

How dare I have a conversation with you? LOL, it's not even my information, I just read more than you do, obviously.

Do you normally get upset with everyone that knows something you don't? Just going by your posting, you seem experienced...........



I provided links that offer a more complete perspective. I take it you did not like the link about the Garbage Patch?

Well, yes, you sound like an angsty teen who thinks the world owes them a favour. You think all humans do is destroy, that is a bleak and unhealthy outlook, LOL, and you are telling me to get out more often. That is funny!

Why did you not respond the the links and give a sensible argument? Why opt to go on the personal insult path as opposed to revealing evidence?

Because you are a sore loser. I suspect your next move will be to incorporate smilies with your bolding? You could maybe try bolding and red? That will teach me!



I do not think so, I conceded to Orcseeker and actually apologised for ranting at him because I was a bit wound up from people like you. And that was my mistake. I do not know why it bothers me that some people insist in remaining ignorant, I guess I think you have the right to deliberate ignorance, but as a human, I think you are letting us all down.



I never said that. I said a few spoil it for many, and you seem to think those few are the many. People do a lot of good too.

LOL, I am in my 40's and grew up without the Internet. I know more about the outdoors than you could ever possibly realise! And I grew up in rural Australia!!

Good God Man! Do you think that a bright outlook is from sitting behind a computer? That is so ridiculous it is really funny!!!!  Have a think about that line for a minute.



And I actually really did!




How mature! That certainly convinces me that your argument is valid. Well I'm sold, We are all going to hell in a hand basket, get me a good thick rope so I do not have to live in this deep dark planet of evil humans destroying every inch as soon as they have the chance!!
My my Ryegrog, you did let me down so! I expected a decent debate, or at best conversation. Poor effort mate. You ought to be ashamed. Terrible rebuttal. Is that really the most you are capable of?

Remember this. How Mature!

Attached Files

•  b218965611.jpeg   22.92K   2 downloads

Edited by Ryegrog, 20 October 2012 - 02:18 PM.

[Hawkin]

psyche101, on 17 October 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

LOL, cranky little so and so aren't ya!

They do destroy the planet. How many cattle methane management programs do our bovines have in place?

What we are is man. There is not 6 billion of anything on earth other than people. If ELephants managed to rise to such a number I bet they would not give a hoot what plants they trample out of extinction, what their numbers are doing to the atmosphere, or so much as put their waste away. We do all that because we are managing the systems around us. Again, you are talking like 1% of the planet, the fat cats who make an easy buck. That is not by any means humanity at all. That is a contingent that bucks the system. People do not approve, and people protest.

Elephants ond Dolphins rely on the ecosystem, they do naught for it. Because you do not see widespread damage only means there is not all that many of them. How many Porpoise breeds are extinct because Dolphins kiled them? We will never know. Animals will drive another species to extinction for their own benefit. We try to find enough for us, and animals, and structure our daily life to accomodate both. How many species did the T Rex stop from evolving to a modern standard? Do they care? The earth relies on all of us too you know. That is how it becomes what it is. We fertilise, beautify, manipulate and create. What do animals do? Eat, sleep kill and die. No morals, no accountability, nothing. We are trying to do something.

After your above post, you have me more confused than anything. If you think you do not sound like you hate humanity, then you are wrong.



No we do not. Damage happens in the path of progress. We are the only species that ever cleaned up after themselves. We have a conscience. Well most do.



Yes it is banned at work (I am in charge of IT at work so bloody oath is is banned), but at home I have had it blocked at my router because my kids abuse it. I said this in another thread, you must have missed it.

Shame on your for chastising someone without all the facts!




LINK


ScienceActivists Want to Turn Ocean Trash Patch Into Hawaii-sized Green Nation










g

Looks Good On Paper. If it can be accomplished that would be great.
We need to fix what we broke. Efforts are being made but it's not enough.
More needs to be done.  And it not just a few that trashes the planet for everybody.
How do you think the Garbage Patch formed. Not to mention litter you see on land in ditches
or on city streets. But I personally take paper and plastic bottles to a
recycle dumpster so it can be recycled. Less waist is going to the landfill.

I too grew up in a rural area. All my life I would see land owners clear woodlands to make
room for growing crops. And farmers would spray Anhydrous Ammonia to fertilize crops.
That gets in the soil and into the water table. Yes there are some efforts being made like
some farmers fertilize their crops the old fashion way by using the Honey Wagon.
Still though it's not enough.

I know I sound negative to you but I'm just telling it how it is,
People prefer to hear a sugar coated lie over a harse truth.
That's why politicians lie. They know that's what people want to hear.
If a politician was honest and said, if elected he/she would raise taxes
to reduce the deficit, then they wouldn't get elected.

[Orcseeker]

Ryegrog, I do agree that there is a lot of bad stuff going on. Sometimes I think it is a hopeless cycle that will always be there in full force. But I have taken note, more people than ever before are becoming more aware and doing there part for the greater good so to speak. I see something that makes me lose faith in humanity and there are 5+ others who agree with me for every one of these cases you see pop up.

These ignorants are losing numbers. People are quickly coming more informed and think for themselves. Has it bet been at a higher state in our human history? That is what you must remember.

[DONTEATUS]

Take the Test again I think we just might fail it !

[Finity]

It's possible.  But the chances of that are actually FAR smaller than there already being life out there

[Hilander]

There is no way we are the first.  I think it is more likely that we are here because of an alien race.  Look at all the cave painting that have been found that look like UFO's or aliens.

[psyche101]

Orcseeker, on 19 October 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

I think it will require international intervention or pressure for these things to be done. However, do not fret, there are people in those countries who are also recognising this, I have visited an orangutan rehabilitation center and safe haven in Sabah, Malaysia. Things like that are run by the people there who go out of their way to help in big ways.

I do envy you, that must have been nothing less than fascinating. I would like to have more faith in the UN, but they do seem to be very much the toothless tiger. I think it will be more how you suggest, and that local cimmunities will have to band together to make other aware of such distasteful practises.

Orcseeker, on 19 October 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

I actually have no idea haha. I'm a Victorian. I've only recently appreciated the true beauty of our country's landscape and was not interested in travel or geology of it at all. Especially our flora.

Ahh, long way north, but worth the trip. The Watermelon Festival is a must!

It took me a while to appreciate the local flora as well, I always liked the fauna being so individual, but I have planted many Banksia, Calistimon and Proteas over the last 2 years. I rather appreciate the flowers. I have a couple of lovely gums too that are lemon scented.

Orcseeker, on 19 October 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

The ignorant are slowly being weeded out... Slowly. Still I would hate to see any avoidable loss of species in the meantime. These are fauna and flora that do possess a life and needlessly lose it.

I agree , the seed collection in Switzerland is a great idea, I think we should do something like that with species DNA. A modern ark in a shoebox sort of thing.

Orcseeker, on 19 October 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

It is absolutely no problem. I've seen you on these forums for quite a while and know you mean well. UM is probably of my greatest finds on the Internet. Definitely 100% agree with you on the rest, ah what a world that would be.

Thanks for being such a gentleman.
I agree, I have been enjoying UM for some time now, and have picked up a great deal and met some top notch people.

Orcseeker, on 19 October 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

Oh yes I recognise the big government initiative on solar power. Not sure if you've heard or seen pictures of the Greenough River Solar Farm, but definitely have a look if not, our biggest solar plant in Australia. Though this may seem like quite an effort on our behalf, our reliance on brown coal still has the largest market share by quite a big fraction (90%+) last time I checked.

I would link an image of a graph comparison between Australia and Germany in terms of sustainable power but I can't seem to find it. We flounder on less than 10% whereas Germany's majority of power is from sustainable energy if I remember correctly.

LEDs definitely have my vote, from TVs to torches. So much more efficient AND effective. The government have had some initiatives which I'm sure you're aware of here to give everyone free flouroescent globes. I think it is time they did the LEDs.

That is a great idea. I suspect such a graph would have a positive result, and that would be the sort of marketing the industry needs.

I did have a look at the solar farm, thank you for the suggestion. I see the goal is to reach 40MW, That is fantastic. I do hope it is received well and sets a precedent. We have the right conditions to be sure.

Orcseeker, on 19 October 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

Oh yes I have heard of crop rotations, but the native Americans respected the land completely from animals to the trees. I think you will find many great quotes notable native Americans have made as well as some of their sayings to be very wise.

I do believe the indigenous Australians have a similar respect for the land. I think it comes when settlers do themselves in. Each case of enlightenment seems to follow a major extinction event. What I find positive though, is that we do seem to be learning from the process, albeit slowly.

Orcseeker, on 19 October 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

That is true but we as humans have more resources than we need, so if any animal on this world is to help anything it is us.

Indeed, but I think one needs to lose something to miss it. I think man has learned that lesson, and that is why I consider us the only species ever to feel remorse for environmental damage. And even then, we only recognise the damage because of intelligence. Most species I think would just eat themselves out of a home.

Orcseeker, on 19 October 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

On that note it would be quite interesting to see how other creatures would evolve taking some of the core beginning as us. Perhaps could have developed a new energy source or whatnot.

Hmm conscience in terms of other animals would be a hard thing to identify. I guess some animals seem to portray guilt if they've done something wrong so it could support the evidence of a conscience.

Really quite a possible speculation. Animals have different needs, and well could see processes that are not apparent to us.

I suppose some animals appear to portray guilt, but I do not know if that has been qualified, but I do not know of an animal that will continue to show remorse. Like looking sad when passing  grave or something. It is an interesting thought actually, I wonder when an instinct becomes an emotion?

Orcseeker, on 19 October 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

I believe we will always find an alternative, but we do only have so many resources on this planet and for them to reform once again would take millions of years. We do have current alternatives now, such as hybrid cars which we could also get to run on sustainable energy. The problem with that is, right now the production of such cars requires large amounts of petroleum fuel from material extraction to car assembly.

Indeed, everything we use it made to fit into our current way of life, I wonder of we rethink that convenience if some answer might become clearer. You have given me food for thought there.

Orcseeker, on 19 October 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

It is absolutely fine psyche. I greatly appreciate your respect and your apology I'm glad there is no bad blood between us. If I ever came off as rude or such I apologise as well.

I am very pleased, and thank you for being such a gentlemen. I accept full responsibility for the previous misunderstanding.

[psyche101]

Mag357, on 20 October 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

Remember this. How Mature!

Is that what upset you! That was not even in this thread! I do not remember where I posted that, but I am sure you deserved it!

Yes, pretty immature, but that was supposed to be a hint for you........ The comment was a bit tongue in cheek. If I was cranky, I'd be wordy.

[psyche101]

Mag357, on 20 October 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

Looks Good On Paper. If it can be accomplished that would be great.
We need to fix what we broke. Efforts are being made but it's not enough.
More needs to be done.  And it not just a few that trashes the planet for everybody.
How do you think the Garbage Patch formed. Not to mention litter you see on land in ditches
or on city streets. But I personally take paper and plastic bottles to a
recycle dumpster so it can be recycled. Less waist is going to the landfill.

I too grew up in a rural area. All my life I would see land owners clear woodlands to make
room for growing crops. And farmers would spray Anhydrous Ammonia to fertilize crops.
That gets in the soil and into the water table. Yes there are some efforts being made like
some farmers fertilize their crops the old fashion way by using the Honey Wagon.
Still though it's not enough.

I know I sound negative to you but I'm just telling it how it is,
People prefer to hear a sugar coated lie over a harse truth.
That's why politicians lie. They know that's what people want to hear.
If a politician was honest and said, if elected he/she would raise taxes
to reduce the deficit, then they wouldn't get elected.

That is not all that negative, we do some damage, I admit, what I try to get across to people is that we screw up. Humans are not inherently evil daemons out to destroy the universe. That was the pont with the Island  Yes, we stuffed up, and now we are going  ohhh crap, we better fix that!

Evil would not do that. People are people. Most of them a pretty OK. The emo view of evil humans is unfounded and a bit childish I think.

Of course Pollies lie. Half of them would be out of a job otherwise!

[psyche101]

Hilander, on 30 October 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

There is no way we are the first.  I think it is more likely that we are here because of an alien race.  Look at all the cave painting that have been found that look like UFO's or aliens.

I feel rather strongly about those cave painting interpretations.


I am outright disgusted in UFOlogists reinterpreting historical record to satisfy personal fantasy. Those cave paintings are the property of everyone, not UFOlogy, and UFOlogists do not have the right to rewrite historical record with some little green men in it. Many records that accompany such paintings are only kept orally, and the few that hold these records are disappearing. What needs to happen is a genuine group should be out there preserving what is left. Not some jerk rewriting it to sell a book.

I would like to see such "vandalisation" of historical sites made a crime, and punishable by law. If one cannot 100% prove the ET version of historical record, they should be charged with repairing the damage, they, and those that have gone before them have already done.

The people that rape history like this ought to be tarred and feathered. It is nothing short of disgusting in my opinion.

[DONTEATUS]

psyche101, on 31 October 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

I feel rather strongly about those cave painting interpretations.


I am outright disgusted in UFOlogists reinterpreting historical record to satisfy personal fantasy. Those cave paintings are the property of everyone, not UFOlogy, and UFOlogists do not have the right to rewrite historical record with some little green men in it. Many records that accompany such paintings are only kept orally, and the few that hold these records are disappearing. What needs to happen is a genuine group should be out there preserving what is left. Not some jerk rewriting it to sell a book.

I would like to see such "vandalisation" of historical sites made a crime, and punishable by law. If one cannot 100% prove the ET version of historical record, they should be charged with repairing the damage, they, and those that have gone before them have already done.

The people that rape history like this ought to be tarred and feathered. It is nothing short of disgusting in my opinion.

I have too agree on the cave paintings psyche 101 ! I wonder in thirty thousand years what intelligent beings will think of our C/D disc ? or  Jumbo tron`s Screens? Only time will tell. And Only what ever is around at said time  will record the way they Look at what they See ! Maybe It will be by spitting onto a cliff side in upper N.Y ?